Most natural weapons do 1d4 + Strength mod. Monsters of the Multiverse is changing it to a 1d6.
o Every class can use some kind of weapon that does at least that much damage.
o Using it effectively requires a strength build
It's still technically a buff because you can be in a situation where you don't have your weapons and you have to fight your way out of something. But that is so circumstantial. When assessing the strength of a D&D race, I consider this just a flavor feature. You can build around them, use them exclusively, and build a character who can reasonably contribute. But not beyond what someone can already do with weapons.
Has anyone come up with a build or a use that makes them special? Flavor wise I love the idea of playing something like a Leonin and going into battle with just my claws. But it will never measure up to what you can build with actual weapons.
With a Monk, although it’s not an undisputed thing, the consensus seems to be that you can use natural weapons for unarmed strikes. Mostly that operates only to change the damage type. DEX based Tabaxi monks can choose bludgeoning or slashing unarmed attacks, for example.
I have thought about but not tested allowing creatures that have natural weapons and classes/abilities that use hand to hand combat increase the damage based on the attack. ie a race with a claw attack that has the monk class or bloodhunter lycan class increases the damage die by 1 step or gets a bonus to damage or gets a min damage for the attack. But again this is just an idea that I have not tested out... but it does seem feasible and not to game breaking. Note: I have no idea what changes are being put forth in upcoming books and those changes may adjust or nullify my ideas above.
I think a way to “fix” it could be to say, explicitly, natural weapons count as light weapons. Then you could start to allow them to work with things like the dueling fighting style, or feats. Right now, I imagine some DMs may allow it while others may not.
But then I suppose you’d need to reconsider unarmed fighting in general. Do you want a fist, or claw, to be as strong as a longsword? Unarmed already has some advantages— can’t be disarmed, heat metal won’t bother you, you are never without a weapon, it effectively has no weight, probably other things I’m not considering right now. Lots of those don’t often come in in game, but they are still factors.
Yes, it's just a novelty. It's functionally just a ribbon feature. Has no real impact on a character's power budget.
This is one of the weaknesses of the system. Everybody wants to use their cool natural claws, but the system is designed with the assumption that you are motivated by the acquisition of magical swords. If I were in charge, I would make it a core rule to say that any magical weapon can have its magic transferred into any nonmagical weapon. (Then I'd add something to the martial classes, because a little bit of their power budget is historically tied up in the ability to use whatever magic weapons or armor the DM happens to roll up.)
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
Even if you play a Monk, they're only useful until your Martial Arts die surpasses them. It's not nothing, but it definitely sucks to have one of your racial features just disappear at a certain level.
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
It looks like they deliberately had all of the various class abilities not apply to natural weapons, especially since the new book is changing their wording to be a type of unarmed strike.
I don't personally like them going that direction. A natural weapon should always be counted as a simple, light weapon being held in the hands for which the character has proficiency. That would allow the various class features to work with them, making a variety of non-monk unarmed builds significantly more viable.
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
Even if you play a Monk, they're only useful until your Martial Arts die surpasses them. It's not nothing, but it definitely sucks to have one of your racial features just disappear at a certain level.
If it’s an unarmed strike, and monks make unarmed strikes, why wouldn’t it scale as you level? So the claws will do d8 then d10?
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
Even if you play a Monk, they're only useful until your Martial Arts die surpasses them. It's not nothing, but it definitely sucks to have one of your racial features just disappear at a certain level.
If it’s an unarmed strike, and monks make unarmed strikes, why wouldn’t it scale as you level? So the claws will do d8 then d10?
The way I understood their comment was that the damage increase for the unarmed strike disappears when the material arts die reaches the same die that is used as the damage die for the unarmed strike. Most use a 1d4 as the damage die so martial arts cancels that at monk 1. Being able to change the damage type isn't nothing, but it also isn't a major factor the majority of the time. It's a big deal if a creature happens to be resistant to bludgeoning damage but not slashing or if a player wanted to use Slasher feat, for instance.
As such, it is mostly a ribbon ability outside of the "jailed without gear and must escape scenario".
This is an extremely limited case, but I've been DM'ing with a Centaur Barbarian with the Mobile Feat which has been coming up a lot. To explain, Centaurs have a unique Bonus Action attack they can take with their hooves, but only if they move 30 feet before attacking. A centaur starts with a movement speed of 40, Barbarian eventually gives them a +10 to their movement speed, and Mobile adds another +10... so the character has 60 foot move speed, avoids Opportunity Attacks after attacking a target... so the player can hit an enemy twice, and as long as the battlefield is big enough, the centaur then runs away 30 feet, then runs back to get in a bonus action attack... 1d6+Rage Damage is solid extra damage, even if it's not quite as much damage as using a larger weapon.
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
Even if you play a Monk, they're only useful until your Martial Arts die surpasses them. It's not nothing, but it definitely sucks to have one of your racial features just disappear at a certain level.
If it’s an unarmed strike, and monks make unarmed strikes, why wouldn’t it scale as you level? So the claws will do d8 then d10?
Yes, but so would an ordinary dwarf's foot. Let's say you are playing a race with a d6 natural weapon, and I'm playing a dwarf, and we're both Monks. From levels 1 to 4, I only have a d4 for my unarmed attacks, but you have a d6. Neat! Your race is letting you do something I can't do. But then, starting at level 5, we both have d6s. Then we both have d8s. And so on.
So at level 5, it's as if one of your features stops existing.
You can still use slashing damage for your unarmed attacks if you want. You won't be gaining anything, though. I'll tell you now, no published monster is vulnerable to it. There are a small handful of plant monsters that are resistant to both bludgeoning and piercing, so they're like, half vulnerable to it. They're half vulnerable to your unarmed attacks, which will be, at most, half of your attacks on your turn, if you choose to use a weapon for your regular attacks, which you likely will, because magic weapons are a lot more common than magic unarmed attack items, and you can throw some of them. You could use the Slasher feat, but it's no stronger than the Bludgeoner feat in a vacuum, and for a Monk specifically, Bludgeoner is usually better because it lets you avoid opportunity attacks.
All of which is to say, the best fit for a race who has a natural weapon is arguably Monk, but even for a Monk, it only matters for 4 levels. On all the other classes, it doesn't matter at all.
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
Even if you play a Monk, they're only useful until your Martial Arts die surpasses them. It's not nothing, but it definitely sucks to have one of your racial features just disappear at a certain level.
If it’s an unarmed strike, and monks make unarmed strikes, why wouldn’t it scale as you level? So the claws will do d8 then d10?
Yes, but so would an ordinary dwarf's foot. Let's say you are playing a race with a d6 natural weapon, and I'm playing a dwarf, and we're both Monks. From levels 1 to 4, I only have a d4 for my unarmed attacks, but you have a d6. Neat! Your race is letting you do something I can't do. But then, starting at level 5, we both have d6s. Then we both have d8s. And so on.
So at level 5, it's as if one of your features stops existing.
You can still use slashing damage for your unarmed attacks if you want. You won't be gaining anything, though. I'll tell you now, no published monster is vulnerable to it. There are a small handful of plant monsters that are resistant to both bludgeoning and piercing, so they're like, half vulnerable to it. They're half vulnerable to your unarmed attacks, which will be, at most, half of your attacks on your turn, if you choose to use a weapon for your regular attacks, which you likely will, because magic weapons are a lot more common than magic unarmed attack items, and you can throw some of them. You could use the Slasher feat, but it's no stronger than the Bludgeoner feat in a vacuum, and for a Monk specifically, Bludgeoner is usually better because it lets you avoid opportunity attacks.
All of which is to say, the best fit for a race who has a natural weapon is arguably Monk, but even for a Monk, it only matters for 4 levels. On all the other classes, it doesn't matter at all.
One area where slasher is better than crusher is for dex based characters. Slasher increases strength or dexterity whereas Crusher increases strength or constitution. Constitution is useful for all characters, sure, but increasing your offensive stat is typically better and dexterity can increase so many different aspects of a character. It's still only minor gains, though.
I'm ok with it being the sometimes-fun ribbon that it is. This is the kind of feature that lets you lean into your race roleplay-wise without really affecting balance much. A lizardman monk that is just constantly biting everyone is fun.
And it can scale with magic weapons, you just need to collect belts of giant strength instead of swords.
That doesn't really scale, though, since the fighter with the sword could also use the belt of giant strength and get the same buff to their higher base damage.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
After reading everyone's comments I am more of a mind to impose a damage min vs an increase the damage die (even if they provide the same average damage), so if you have natural weapons that apply to the MA style (not all would apply IMHO) if you had a D6 damage for MA you would have all 1 and 2 treated as 3's and if you had a d8 then all 1,2,3 are treated as 4's.
IMHO this is a slight shift to allow for qualifying natural weapons to have an impact (average damage) but it does not increase the max damage of the PC.
While natural weapons were still "weapons" there were a couple of spells and features that still worked. (Just not enough to make it worth while) hunters mark, magic weapon and a couple of others. Injury Poison still works but is more complicated than just using it on ammo.
There is probably a monk/ranger build that could be fun but it won't be optimized.
While natural weapons were still "weapons" there were a couple of spells and features that still worked. (Just not enough to make it worth while) hunters mark, magic weapon and a couple of others. Injury Poison still works but is more complicated than just using it on ammo.
There is probably a monk/ranger build that could be fun but it won't be optimized.
I think you bring up an important point, natural weapons can open up other areas for expansion and those being general rules, class options, spells, magic items, feats, healing and equipment.
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Most natural weapons do 1d4 + Strength mod. Monsters of the Multiverse is changing it to a 1d6.
o Every class can use some kind of weapon that does at least that much damage.
o Using it effectively requires a strength build
It's still technically a buff because you can be in a situation where you don't have your weapons and you have to fight your way out of something. But that is so circumstantial. When assessing the strength of a D&D race, I consider this just a flavor feature. You can build around them, use them exclusively, and build a character who can reasonably contribute. But not beyond what someone can already do with weapons.
Has anyone come up with a build or a use that makes them special? Flavor wise I love the idea of playing something like a Leonin and going into battle with just my claws. But it will never measure up to what you can build with actual weapons.
With a Monk, although it’s not an undisputed thing, the consensus seems to be that you can use natural weapons for unarmed strikes. Mostly that operates only to change the damage type. DEX based Tabaxi monks can choose bludgeoning or slashing unarmed attacks, for example.
I have thought about but not tested allowing creatures that have natural weapons and classes/abilities that use hand to hand combat increase the damage based on the attack. ie a race with a claw attack that has the monk class or bloodhunter lycan class increases the damage die by 1 step or gets a bonus to damage or gets a min damage for the attack. But again this is just an idea that I have not tested out... but it does seem feasible and not to game breaking. Note: I have no idea what changes are being put forth in upcoming books and those changes may adjust or nullify my ideas above.
I think a way to “fix” it could be to say, explicitly, natural weapons count as light weapons. Then you could start to allow them to work with things like the dueling fighting style, or feats. Right now, I imagine some DMs may allow it while others may not.
But then I suppose you’d need to reconsider unarmed fighting in general. Do you want a fist, or claw, to be as strong as a longsword? Unarmed already has some advantages— can’t be disarmed, heat metal won’t bother you, you are never without a weapon, it effectively has no weight, probably other things I’m not considering right now. Lots of those don’t often come in in game, but they are still factors.
Yes, it's just a novelty. It's functionally just a ribbon feature. Has no real impact on a character's power budget.
This is one of the weaknesses of the system. Everybody wants to use their cool natural claws, but the system is designed with the assumption that you are motivated by the acquisition of magical swords. If I were in charge, I would make it a core rule to say that any magical weapon can have its magic transferred into any nonmagical weapon. (Then I'd add something to the martial classes, because a little bit of their power budget is historically tied up in the ability to use whatever magic weapons or armor the DM happens to roll up.)
With MMM and going forward, I presume, they will not be called “natural weapons” but Unarmed Strikes. And yeah, they kind of are just a ribbon unless you go monk.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Even if you play a Monk, they're only useful until your Martial Arts die surpasses them. It's not nothing, but it definitely sucks to have one of your racial features just disappear at a certain level.
It could be a cool racial feat to just bump them to a d8. Just one feat across all the races with natural weapons, basically.
The way my DM handled my character with claws was just to treat them as shortswords.
<---------- It was this character btw
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
It looks like they deliberately had all of the various class abilities not apply to natural weapons, especially since the new book is changing their wording to be a type of unarmed strike.
I don't personally like them going that direction. A natural weapon should always be counted as a simple, light weapon being held in the hands for which the character has proficiency. That would allow the various class features to work with them, making a variety of non-monk unarmed builds significantly more viable.
If it’s an unarmed strike, and monks make unarmed strikes, why wouldn’t it scale as you level? So the claws will do d8 then d10?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The way I understood their comment was that the damage increase for the unarmed strike disappears when the material arts die reaches the same die that is used as the damage die for the unarmed strike. Most use a 1d4 as the damage die so martial arts cancels that at monk 1. Being able to change the damage type isn't nothing, but it also isn't a major factor the majority of the time. It's a big deal if a creature happens to be resistant to bludgeoning damage but not slashing or if a player wanted to use Slasher feat, for instance.
As such, it is mostly a ribbon ability outside of the "jailed without gear and must escape scenario".
This is an extremely limited case, but I've been DM'ing with a Centaur Barbarian with the Mobile Feat which has been coming up a lot. To explain, Centaurs have a unique Bonus Action attack they can take with their hooves, but only if they move 30 feet before attacking. A centaur starts with a movement speed of 40, Barbarian eventually gives them a +10 to their movement speed, and Mobile adds another +10... so the character has 60 foot move speed, avoids Opportunity Attacks after attacking a target... so the player can hit an enemy twice, and as long as the battlefield is big enough, the centaur then runs away 30 feet, then runs back to get in a bonus action attack... 1d6+Rage Damage is solid extra damage, even if it's not quite as much damage as using a larger weapon.
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Yes, but so would an ordinary dwarf's foot. Let's say you are playing a race with a d6 natural weapon, and I'm playing a dwarf, and we're both Monks. From levels 1 to 4, I only have a d4 for my unarmed attacks, but you have a d6. Neat! Your race is letting you do something I can't do. But then, starting at level 5, we both have d6s. Then we both have d8s. And so on.
So at level 5, it's as if one of your features stops existing.
You can still use slashing damage for your unarmed attacks if you want. You won't be gaining anything, though. I'll tell you now, no published monster is vulnerable to it. There are a small handful of plant monsters that are resistant to both bludgeoning and piercing, so they're like, half vulnerable to it. They're half vulnerable to your unarmed attacks, which will be, at most, half of your attacks on your turn, if you choose to use a weapon for your regular attacks, which you likely will, because magic weapons are a lot more common than magic unarmed attack items, and you can throw some of them. You could use the Slasher feat, but it's no stronger than the Bludgeoner feat in a vacuum, and for a Monk specifically, Bludgeoner is usually better because it lets you avoid opportunity attacks.
All of which is to say, the best fit for a race who has a natural weapon is arguably Monk, but even for a Monk, it only matters for 4 levels. On all the other classes, it doesn't matter at all.
One area where slasher is better than crusher is for dex based characters. Slasher increases strength or dexterity whereas Crusher increases strength or constitution. Constitution is useful for all characters, sure, but increasing your offensive stat is typically better and dexterity can increase so many different aspects of a character. It's still only minor gains, though.
I'm ok with it being the sometimes-fun ribbon that it is. This is the kind of feature that lets you lean into your race roleplay-wise without really affecting balance much. A lizardman monk that is just constantly biting everyone is fun.
And it can scale with magic weapons, you just need to collect belts of giant strength instead of swords.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That doesn't really scale, though, since the fighter with the sword could also use the belt of giant strength and get the same buff to their higher base damage.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
After reading everyone's comments I am more of a mind to impose a damage min vs an increase the damage die (even if they provide the same average damage), so if you have natural weapons that apply to the MA style (not all would apply IMHO) if you had a D6 damage for MA you would have all 1 and 2 treated as 3's and if you had a d8 then all 1,2,3 are treated as 4's.
IMHO this is a slight shift to allow for qualifying natural weapons to have an impact (average damage) but it does not increase the max damage of the PC.
While natural weapons were still "weapons" there were a couple of spells and features that still worked. (Just not enough to make it worth while) hunters mark, magic weapon and a couple of others. Injury Poison still works but is more complicated than just using it on ammo.
There is probably a monk/ranger build that could be fun but it won't be optimized.
I think you bring up an important point, natural weapons can open up other areas for expansion and those being general rules, class options, spells, magic items, feats, healing and equipment.