It’s not a good idea to multi class with Bladesinger. I’ve been playing them for a couple of years and I’d avoid multi classing. You are always giving up something better.
This depends on how you want to play. If you absolutely want to be a gish casting cantrips in melee, wizard does not help that past level 6. In fact, the higher you go the less incentive you have to melee because your high level spells are much better uses of your action. If you want to continue to make good use of your melee capabilities, you need to MC into other classes that can enhance those abilities.
I have played with a high level Bladesinger wizard and it was basically just a wizard. He'd melee once every three fights or so, always in the cleanup phase of the battle when it didn't matter much. Being a full caster actually hurts the overall concept in the end.
Yes, but actually the bladesinger dessing is not for a pure gish. You are a Wizard that can be in melee, not a front line warrior that can use magic. The second concept suits better in an Eldritch Knigth.
So if you want to play a pure gish, you should choose Eldritch Knight as your main class and maybe some bladesinger levels (although I would recommend another wizard's subclass, actually).
To play a bladesinger, I don't recommend multiclassing. You lose more than you win.
They're very different builds in practice. An EK is basically a fighter with shield for the first 10 levels or so. For example, it doesn't get access to haste until level 13 whereas a Bladesinger has it by the time they get their Extra Attack feature.
The level 2 and 6 features of Bladesinger are fantastic for a melee build. Beyond that... eh. Shifting to something that continues to provide melee enhancements like rogue after level 6 makes for a decent build that can keep up in a typical party. It's fun and flavorful and works throughout its progression. To me, that meets the requirements for something to be a good multiclass. It doesn't need to be better than the straight class, it just needs to be viable.
It’s not a good idea to multi class with Bladesinger. I’ve been playing them for a couple of years and I’d avoid multi classing. You are always giving up something better.
This depends on how you want to play. If you absolutely want to be a gish casting cantrips in melee, wizard does not help that past level 6. In fact, the higher you go the less incentive you have to melee because your high level spells are much better uses of your action. If you want to continue to make good use of your melee capabilities, you need to MC into other classes that can enhance those abilities.
I have played with a high level Bladesinger wizard and it was basically just a wizard. He'd melee once every three fights or so, always in the cleanup phase of the battle when it didn't matter much. Being a full caster actually hurts the overall concept in the end.
Yes, but actually the bladesinger dessing is not for a pure gish. You are a Wizard that can be in melee, not a front line warrior that can use magic. The second concept suits better in an Eldritch Knigth.
So if you want to play a pure gish, you should choose Eldritch Knight as your main class and maybe some bladesinger levels (although I would recommend another wizard's subclass, actually).
To play a bladesinger, I don't recommend multiclassing. You lose more than you win.
They're very different builds in practice. An EK is basically a fighter with shield for the first 10 levels or so. For example, it doesn't get access to haste until level 13 whereas a Bladesinger has it by the time they get their Extra Attack feature.
The level 2 and 6 features of Bladesinger are fantastic for a melee build. Beyond that... eh. Shifting to something that continues to provide melee enhancements like rogue after level 6 makes for a decent build that can keep up in a typical party. It's fun and flavorful and works throughout its progression. To me, that meets the requirements for something to be a good multiclass. It doesn't need to be better than the straight class, it just needs to be viable.
So a Fistzinger (slightly changing the name from Fistsinger) should take unarmed fighting style as a Fighter, Wizard to Bladesinger level 6, what ya think the Fistzinger should do for their Fighter subclass?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you look at EK it’s spells top at equal to a L7 Wizard. So if you want to a more “magical” fighter mage dual class your best over all is probably F11 (Battlemaster)/W9 (Bladesinger) that gets you the options of 3 attacks with no spells, 1 attack + cantrip + bonus action attack (especially with TWF), or a leveled spell action/attack and gives you L5 spells. The problem of course is that it’s a fairly MAD build. A (perhaps) less MAD build would be a drUidic warrior ranger 11/ bladesinger 9. Champion, Fey wanderer and horizon walker work fairly well for this. This gives you 5 th level spells and 7th level slots as well as the ranger abilities and spells. You do lose the fighters 3 attacks/round but only half way as the ranger L11 abilities provide ways to get a third (or more) attack in many cases.
Action surge with a full wizard list is probably peak power for me at least.
If you want a true Gish I would suggest Scoradin myself as you actually have major ways to use your slots for boosting melee.
Bladesinger is interesting and fun but mechanically just functions better as a way to ensure you don't drop concentration than as an actual melee fighter.
You could also just use a handcrossbow which I think is funny.
Action surge with a full wizard list is probably peak power for me at least.
If you want a true Gish I would suggest Scoradin myself as you actually have major ways to use your slots for boosting melee.
Bladesinger is interesting and fun but mechanically just functions better as a way to ensure you don't drop concentration than as an actual melee fighter.
You could also just use a handcrossbow which I think is funny.
Agreed F2/Blade dancer18 is probably the best version but the ranger/bladesinger creates some interesting possibilities as a skirmishes and minion -a-magic to clear paths. No bladesingers should ever be playing tank if they can help it. The job is to clear/blast a path to the bbeg, soften them up with spells then keep the minions off the tank while it deals with the bbeg. Rangers and bladesingers are the Bradley FV of the unit not the ABrahms- taking out the Infantry and medium defenses and clearing paths for the big boys. They don’t need or have quite the nova damage or AC/HPs of the pally/fighter/barb but against what they should be facing they shouldn’t need it either.
They're very different builds in practice. An EK is basically a fighter with shield for the first 10 levels or so. For example, it doesn't get access to haste until level 13 whereas a Bladesinger has it by the time they get their Extra Attack feature.
The level 2 and 6 features of Bladesinger are fantastic for a melee build. Beyond that... eh. Shifting to something that continues to provide melee enhancements like rogue after level 6 makes for a decent build that can keep up in a typical party. It's fun and flavorful and works throughout its progression. To me, that meets the requirements for something to be a good multiclass. It doesn't need to be better than the straight class, it just needs to be viable.
Yes, you are right. It's viable. and It can be fun. But in my opinion it's not the most optimal. But yeah, you can play with a bladesinger's multiclass. Of course you can.
With the way my paladin/sorcerer's spell slots have been scaling, it seems that they may have changed the other halfcasters so they round up now as well
With the way my paladin/sorcerer's spell slots have been scaling, it seems that they may have changed the other halfcasters so they round up now as well
I just made a 4th level Sorcerer and 3rd level Paladin. Per the rules, that should be a 5th level caster as the Sorcerer gives 4 levels and the Paladin gives 3/2 (1.5) rounded down (1) level. If it was rounding up the character would be a 6th level caster instead. Therefore, it's still working as rounded down.
This advice is situational, but great if it works for you.
So, a house rule that I've seen a lot of DMs using for warlocks lets you choose either INT or CHA for your spellcasting ability. If you use this house rule to choose INT and multiclass into a Hexblade warlock, you would get to make weapon attacks with Intelligence. Need I explain why this is a very powerful multiclass?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
This advice is situational, but great if it works for you.
So, a house rule that I've seen a lot of DMs using for warlocks lets you choose either INT or CHA for your spellcasting ability. If you use this house rule to choose INT and multiclass into a Hexblade warlock, you would get to make weapon attacks with Intelligence. Need I explain why this is a very powerful multiclass?
For the same reason a Sorlock build is powerful. We would have the same thing with the Battle Smith Artificer, if only they got their subclass at level 1.
I played a Bladesinger multiclass in my groups last campaign. Honestly, I recommend the multiclassing with rogue. The skill proficiencies make role play as a "all knowing" wizard easier, and mechanically the bonus action disengage is phenomenal for the hit and run tactics. The imagery of a bladesinger weaving in and out of enemies in battle works with this too. The subclass I most recommend if you're going to go more than 2 levels in Rogue is the Arcane Trickster. Trickster uses Intelligence for spellcasting so it synergizes well. Close to the same amount of spell slot progression as artificer. Admittedly, the intelligence as attack modifier is attractive, but i say give MAGE HAND LEGERDEMAIN a closer look for versatility. Nothing quite like dropping a alchemist fire in an enemies pocket while in combat using your bonus action for the " attack" with this understated skill.
They're very different builds in practice. An EK is basically a fighter with shield for the first 10 levels or so. For example, it doesn't get access to haste until level 13 whereas a Bladesinger has it by the time they get their Extra Attack feature.
The level 2 and 6 features of Bladesinger are fantastic for a melee build. Beyond that... eh. Shifting to something that continues to provide melee enhancements like rogue after level 6 makes for a decent build that can keep up in a typical party. It's fun and flavorful and works throughout its progression. To me, that meets the requirements for something to be a good multiclass. It doesn't need to be better than the straight class, it just needs to be viable.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
So a Fistzinger (slightly changing the name from Fistsinger) should take unarmed fighting style as a Fighter, Wizard to Bladesinger level 6, what ya think the Fistzinger should do for their Fighter subclass?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
If you look at EK it’s spells top at equal to a L7 Wizard. So if you want to a more “magical” fighter mage dual class your best over all is probably F11 (Battlemaster)/W9 (Bladesinger) that gets you the options of 3 attacks with no spells, 1 attack + cantrip + bonus action attack (especially with TWF), or a leveled spell action/attack and gives you L5 spells. The problem of course is that it’s a fairly MAD build. A (perhaps) less MAD build would be a drUidic warrior ranger 11/ bladesinger 9. Champion, Fey wanderer and horizon walker work fairly well for this. This gives you 5 th level spells and 7th level slots as well as the ranger abilities and spells. You do lose the fighters 3 attacks/round but only half way as the ranger L11 abilities provide ways to get a third (or more) attack in many cases.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Action surge with a full wizard list is probably peak power for me at least.
If you want a true Gish I would suggest Scoradin myself as you actually have major ways to use your slots for boosting melee.
Bladesinger is interesting and fun but mechanically just functions better as a way to ensure you don't drop concentration than as an actual melee fighter.
You could also just use a handcrossbow which I think is funny.
Agreed F2/Blade dancer18 is probably the best version but the ranger/bladesinger creates some interesting possibilities as a skirmishes and minion -a-magic to clear paths. No bladesingers should ever be playing tank if they can help it. The job is to clear/blast a path to the bbeg, soften them up with spells then keep the minions off the tank while it deals with the bbeg. Rangers and bladesingers are the Bradley FV of the unit not the ABrahms- taking out the Infantry and medium defenses and clearing paths for the big boys. They don’t need or have quite the nova damage or AC/HPs of the pally/fighter/barb but against what they should be facing they shouldn’t need it either.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Yes, you are right. It's viable. and It can be fun. But in my opinion it's not the most optimal.
But yeah, you can play with a bladesinger's multiclass. Of course you can.
With the way my paladin/sorcerer's spell slots have been scaling, it seems that they may have changed the other halfcasters so they round up now as well
I just made a 4th level Sorcerer and 3rd level Paladin. Per the rules, that should be a 5th level caster as the Sorcerer gives 4 levels and the Paladin gives 3/2 (1.5) rounded down (1) level. If it was rounding up the character would be a 6th level caster instead. Therefore, it's still working as rounded down.
Huh ok
I was thinking the same thing except I'm doing rogue arcane trickster
It's more for flavor and character background.
This advice is situational, but great if it works for you.
So, a house rule that I've seen a lot of DMs using for warlocks lets you choose either INT or CHA for your spellcasting ability. If you use this house rule to choose INT and multiclass into a Hexblade warlock, you would get to make weapon attacks with Intelligence. Need I explain why this is a very powerful multiclass?
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
I would think fighter or palinden would be a good second choice frew to the exter attacks for fighter and smites for pal.
For the same reason a Sorlock build is powerful. We would have the same thing with the Battle Smith Artificer, if only they got their subclass at level 1.
I played a Bladesinger multiclass in my groups last campaign. Honestly, I recommend the multiclassing with rogue. The skill proficiencies make role play as a "all knowing" wizard easier, and mechanically the bonus action disengage is phenomenal for the hit and run tactics. The imagery of a bladesinger weaving in and out of enemies in battle works with this too. The subclass I most recommend if you're going to go more than 2 levels in Rogue is the Arcane Trickster. Trickster uses Intelligence for spellcasting so it synergizes well. Close to the same amount of spell slot progression as artificer. Admittedly, the intelligence as attack modifier is attractive, but i say give MAGE HAND LEGERDEMAIN a closer look for versatility. Nothing quite like dropping a alchemist fire in an enemies pocket while in combat using your bonus action for the " attack" with this understated skill.
Might want to check out the tanks bladesinger thread for MC ideas:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/wizard/210160-tanky-bladesinger-gish
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.