Youtuber Davvy Chappy commented in his History of Dungeons and Dragons video series that whenever a new edition gets rolled out, it's usually because of stuff that was going on behind the scenes, and so they probably won't be trying out a 6th Edition unless Hasbro gets bought out by the Thanos of entertainment.
You think Bezos would be interested?
Does not have to be that big in scale. What the Chappy vid is really pointing out (and Colville said something like this really recently during a live chat) is pay attention to who was attached to the development of an edition. Then watch where they go and watch who replaces them. It's more art than science in the analysis, but there is a metaphorical critical mass that can be reached on the brand management front that usually brings out an edition change.
But if you want to play guess the Oligarchy, most analyst would see Disney buying Hasbro before Amazon. I don't see that in the near future.
Hey, he said “bought out by the Thanos of entertainment,” not “bought out by the Asmodeus of entertainment.” (Why do you think I was so surprised they thought he would be interested? I thought it rather unlikely myself. But Disney…. 🤔)
Yeah, new UA wouldn't be for any of the announced books, and I don't know if they want to put UA out there to distract from the hype cycle of the fall trifecta, so I'm thinking after Fizban's (which I feel out of the three would presumably be the biggest seller).
Or [conspiracy theory] maybe the next UA will in fact be 6e, and the reason why DDB isn't hosting UA anymore is because it's not clear Wizards is keeping the relationship with them [/conspiracy theory]. I don't really believe that, but I'll float it because it's Friday and maybe it'll turn the rumor mill into a GenCon weekend dynamo.
They (WoTC) have no (finacial) reason to bring out a 6e at this time. They're reaching audiences they haven't before, I'm seeing a lot of parents starting up games for their 10-12 year olds, because 5th is an easy system to manage and teach to children (this is no means a criticism).
That some of us would like more depth, and I'm one of them, does not diminish the success of the product. Switching now would be them shooting themselves in both feet.
They have brought out enough settings to publish out companion books for those settings, they can go and actualise/freshen up classes in Complete Class books and make them optional so not to upset the player base. They still have old campaign worlds they could bring out, but I don't think they will. For good or bad MtG has a lot of planes they still can bring into the DnD universe.
No I don't think 6e is around the corner.
I'm loving how my sardonic "conspiracy theory" tags and my "I don't really believe this but it would be fun to metastasize this rumor while GenCon's on" are getting ignored by folks who are using my post to put down their serious assessment against the plausibility of a 6E, it's not a GENCON riot, but it's amusing.
Youtuber Davvy Chappy commented in his History of Dungeons and Dragons video series that whenever a new edition gets rolled out, it's usually because of stuff that was going on behind the scenes, and so they probably won't be trying out a 6th Edition unless Hasbro gets bought out by the Thanos of entertainment.
You think Bezos would be interested?
Does not have to be that big in scale. What the Chappy vid is really pointing out (and Colville said something like this really recently during a live chat) is pay attention to who was attached to the development of an edition. Then watch where they go and watch who replaces them. It's more art than science in the analysis, but there is a metaphorical critical mass that can be reached on the brand management front that usually brings out an edition change.
But if you want to play guess the Oligarchy, most analyst would see Disney buying Hasbro before Amazon. I don't see that in the near future.
Because the same thing has been going on for a few weeks now in FB groups about DnD?
Yeah, new UA wouldn't be for any of the announced books, and I don't know if they want to put UA out there to distract from the hype cycle of the fall trifecta, so I'm thinking after Fizban's (which I feel out of the three would presumably be the biggest seller).
Or [conspiracy theory] maybe the next UA will in fact be 6e, and the reason why DDB isn't hosting UA anymore is because it's not clear Wizards is keeping the relationship with them [/conspiracy theory]. I don't really believe that, but I'll float it because it's Friday and maybe it'll turn the rumor mill into a GenCon weekend dynamo.
They (WoTC) have no (finacial) reason to bring out a 6e at this time. They're reaching audiences they haven't before, I'm seeing a lot of parents starting up games for their 10-12 year olds, because 5th is an easy system to manage and teach to children (this is no means a criticism).
That some of us would like more depth, and I'm one of them, does not diminish the success of the product. Switching now would be them shooting themselves in both feet.
They have brought out enough settings to publish out companion books for those settings, they can go and actualise/freshen up classes in Complete Class books and make them optional so not to upset the player base. They still have old campaign worlds they could bring out, but I don't think they will. For good or bad MtG has a lot of planes they still can bring into the DnD universe.
No I don't think 6e is around the corner.
I'm loving how my sardonic "conspiracy theory" tags and my "I don't really believe this but it would be fun to metastasize this rumor while GenCon's on" are getting ignored by folks who are using my post to put down their serious assessment against the plausibility of a 6E, it's not a GENCON riot, but it's amusing.
Youtuber Davvy Chappy commented in his History of Dungeons and Dragons video series that whenever a new edition gets rolled out, it's usually because of stuff that was going on behind the scenes, and so they probably won't be trying out a 6th Edition unless Hasbro gets bought out by the Thanos of entertainment.
You think Bezos would be interested?
Does not have to be that big in scale. What the Chappy vid is really pointing out (and Colville said something like this really recently during a live chat) is pay attention to who was attached to the development of an edition. Then watch where they go and watch who replaces them. It's more art than science in the analysis, but there is a metaphorical critical mass that can be reached on the brand management front that usually brings out an edition change.
But if you want to play guess the Oligarchy, most analyst would see Disney buying Hasbro before Amazon. I don't see that in the near future.
Because the same thing has been going on for a few weeks now in FB groups about DnD?
Really? Folks are saying DDB dropped UA because all future UA is 6e oriented and DDB hasn't secured their "premier rights or whatever?" Not a facebooker, but would love to see the link. I figured if it was as excessive as you're reporting, it would have shown up in one of the channels I actually do pay attention to besides Facebook. I don't need to be an innovator though in my perch pondering beyond the Infinite, I'm just as happy to be on the pulse of a hysterical meme and treating it as the joke it likely is.
Regardless of whatever proxy media frustration you're having with Facebook, it's still clear the post was in jest. So I'm sorry you can't parse fun from the serious discussions you're being exposed to in other forums. Why so serious? :D
They've been largely popular amongst the majority of the fanbase, even if a lot of the older players are not fond of them.
Missed this. Me, old? I'm in the 52% below 30, Jeff Bezos could legally be my Grandfather, and I've been doing D&D only since the gap between the EGtW announcement and the MOoT, even my homebrew thread is only slightly older than Candlekeep Mysteries. I'm not old, I just have "Strong tastes" (shuttup, Fizban, you smell).
They've been largely popular amongst the majority of the fanbase, even if a lot of the older players are not fond of them.
Missed this. Me, old? I'm in the 52% below 30, Jeff Bezos could legally be my Grandfather, and I've been doing D&D only since the gap between the EGtW announcement and the MOoT, even my homebrew thread is only slightly older than Candlekeep Mysteries. I'm not old, I just have "Strong tastes" (shuttup, Fizban, you smell).
I wasn't referring to you specifically at all. Just pointing out that most of the "controversial decisions" that WotC has chosen for D&D lately are largely only unpopular with older players, who are also a fairly small part of the community.
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I wasn't referring to you specifically at all. Just pointing out that most of the "controversial decisions" that WotC has chosen for D&D lately are largely only unpopular with older players, who are also a fairly small part of the community.
Does that mean we don’t count?!? If it wasn’t for us older players keeping things going, there wouldn’t ba a 5th edition.
I wasn't referring to you specifically at all. Just pointing out that most of the "controversial decisions" that WotC has chosen for D&D lately are largely only unpopular with older players, who are also a fairly small part of the community.
Does that mean we don’t count?!? If it wasn’t for us older players keeping things going, there wouldn’t ba a 5th edition.
That's as accurate as old people keeping superheroes going. Sure, people who are old now are the ones who created the original, but it is also old people who most often dislike the current versions.
I wasn't referring to you specifically at all. Just pointing out that most of the "controversial decisions" that WotC has chosen for D&D lately are largely only unpopular with older players, who are also a fairly small part of the community.
Does that mean we don’t count?!? If it wasn’t for us older players keeping things going, there wouldn’t ba a 5th edition.
Never said that. And as I've said before in previous threads, I'm grateful to the older generations for keeping D&D alive long enough for me to be able to play it and especially towards those that had to go through the Satanic Panic. I just don't think that the older generations should be the authority as to what D&D is or isn't anymore. That's WotC's job. And there are also plenty of older players that like the newer changes.
The newer players will be around longer, have more long-term money to spend on D&D products, are producing more D&D media that gives WotC more publicity and brings in more newer players (Stranger Things, Critical Role, etc), and have more/newer sources of inspiration for characters and campaigns (anime, for instance). That's why WotC is prioritizing them.
And the older players have also gotten things that they've wanted. D&D 5e exists because the older players overwhelmingly dropped their support for D&D in the 4e era (continuing to play 3.5 or moving to Pathfinder 1e). The push to go back to the more traditional roots of D&D that is the core of D&D 5e is because of WotC wanting to appease older players. And that made D&D 5e more popular than any previous edition, more mainstream than ever, and more profitable than ever. The core parts of the game that the older players love so much are still a part of D&D 5e, even if they're gradually moving away from the ones that they think the game would be better without (always evil races, racial ability score increases, etc). Those are just minor things that have been/are being dropped, while the core spirit of D&D remains the same.
And they still want to appease older players. Why else would they vow to bring back 3 traditional D&D settings to 5e through 2021 and 2022? The existence of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is overwhelmingly because WotC wants to please older fans and keep them buying their stuff. The next two classic setting books that they publish (likely to be Planescape and Dark Sun) are also going to serve that same purpose.
Yes, some lore has changed (as happens when editions progress), some parts of races have been dropped, and some non-standard D&D settings have been published (Theros, Ravnica, next Strixhaven and possibly the Domains of Delight), but the older fanbase still matters. Their presence is still influencing the products that WotC publishes, the storylines that they make, and the way that they do business as a whole. It's just gradually becoming less and less important as the fanbase becomes younger and younger (due to the combined increase in newer players thanks to 5e's popularity and the fact that the older players are eventually going to stop giving WotC more money for one reason or another).
To me, that doesn't sound at all like "you don't count" or not being grateful for the existence of D&D. It just sounds like how the world (and for-profit businesses) works.
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I will debate Planescape and Dark Sun. Dark Sun is a very maybe, given the Psionics rules backlash on all 5e versions (Mystic = hated, Tasha's = hated, UA = hated), it's unlikely that it will come around, especially giving the popularity of Eberron which does Dark Sun more universally friendly and the racism inherent in the original setting.
Nonetheless, I still think there is a high chance Dark Sun is one of the ones.
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
I really dig the Planescape concept…I think it has the greatest potential for a mind-blowing sort of sourcebook / adventure.
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
I really dig the Planescape concept…I think it has the greatest potential for a mind-blowing sort of sourcebook / adventure.
Or become WBtW level of childishness... I'm not anti-Planescape (I am anti-Spelljammer as more than just references, because it's just so clown bonkers it's off-putting), just more Idea Spooked.
Actually, Greyhawk could be really cool. Be grittier than any 5E release, even maybe Eberron.
I will debate Planescape and Dark Sun. Dark Sun is a very maybe, given the Psionics rules backlash on all 5e versions (Mystic = hated, Tasha's = hated, UA = hated), it's unlikely that it will come around, especially giving the popularity of Eberron which does Dark Sun more universally friendly and the racism inherent in the original setting.
Nonetheless, I still think there is a high chance Dark Sun is one of the ones.
They could just reprint the psionics options from Tasha's. Yes, they're controversial, but they also are what we got, and WotC doesn't seem inclined to give us more (if they do, it will probably be something aligned with how Eberron treated Dragonmarks or how Strixhaven is treating its college features as feats).
(I'll also argue against the "racism inherent in the original setting" statement. The slavery is justified by the cruelty of the world, and 4e's Dark Sun book walked back the ****-origin of the Mul. Dark Sun can definitely be done in a non-problematic way, and according to Wizards of the Coast's own surveys, Dark Sun is one of the two most popular settings that hasn't been translated to D&D 5e yet. The other was Planescape.)
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough.
Spelljammer has been nodded at (Rime of the Frostmaiden with the Nautiloid, Dungeon of the Mad Mage with the Squid Ship, Spelljamming Helm, and Asteroid Dungeon, Mordenkainen's with the Giff, Volo's with the Neogi and reference to Mind Flayers travelling to other worlds). I agree that it's not popular or "core" enough to get a 5e book anytime soon, but Planescape is an entirely different matter.
Planescape is one of the most popular settings in D&D's history. It's technically already a part of D&D 5e, it's right in the DMG's section describing the Planes of Existence. Descent into Avernus shows how they could translate the other planes to D&D 5e in a modern way. WotC has published a ton of Planescape material since the 3 Core Rulebooks (Maruts, Steel Predators, and fiends in Mordenkainen's, Hollyphants in Descent into Avernus, etc).
Planescape is popular enough to get translated to D&D 5e. Especially with the new D&D Magic: the Gathering set and Jeremy Crawford's Vi character being canonically a planeswalker from Eberron that lives in Sigil. IMO, Planescape and Dark Sun are the most likely D&D settings to be translated to D&D 5e in the near future now that Ravenloft, Eberron, and Exandria all have D&D 5e books. (Ignoring M:tG settings and that entirely new setting the WotC team is working on.)
I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
Greyhawk isn't distinct enough from the Forgotten Realms (or Exandria) to get its own setting book. It doesn't have enough of a following, especially without Mike Mearls at the head of the D&D team now (he was a huge fan of Greyhawk, but was involved in a scandal and was fired, so it's less likely for Greyhawk to come now than it was when he was working there, and since we didn't get Greyhawk when he was basically in charge of D&D, I'm fairly inclined to believe that we won't be getting it now).
Dragonlance is more problematic than most of the other classic D&D settings (representation of women and Native Americans, its extremely religious roots, its ableist portrayals of Gully Dwarves and, too an extent, Tinker Gnomes, etc), and if WotC made a Dragonlance book, it wouldn't be popular enough amongst younger fans that it would probably be a flop. It also doesn't have much new to it that D&D 5e doesn't already have from Forgotten Realms and Exandria. (Also, the fact that Fizban's is about to come out also makes me think that a Dragonlance book would be too similar in theme, especially with the book referencing both Dragonlance and Council of Wyrms.)
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I will debate Planescape and Dark Sun. Dark Sun is a very maybe, given the Psionics rules backlash on all 5e versions (Mystic = hated, Tasha's = hated, UA = hated), it's unlikely that it will come around, especially giving the popularity of Eberron which does Dark Sun more universally friendly and the racism inherent in the original setting.
Nonetheless, I still think there is a high chance Dark Sun is one of the ones.
They could just reprint the psionics options from Tasha's. Yes, they're controversial, but they also are what we got, and WotC doesn't seem inclined to give us more (if they do, it will probably be something aligned with how Eberron treated Dragonmarks or how Strixhaven is treating its college features as feats).
(I'll also argue against the "racism inherent in the original setting" statement. The slavery is justified by the cruelty of the world, and 4e's Dark Sun book walked back the ****-origin of the Mul. Dark Sun can definitely be done in a non-problematic way, and according to Wizards of the Coast's own surveys, Dark Sun is one of the two most popular settings that hasn't been translated to D&D 5e yet. The other was Planescape.)
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough.
Spelljammer has been nodded at (Rime of the Frostmaiden with the Nautiloid, Dungeon of the Mad Mage with the Squid Ship, Spelljamming Helm, and Asteroid Dungeon, Mordenkainen's with the Giff, Volo's with the Neogi and reference to Mind Flayers travelling to other worlds). I agree that it's not popular or "core" enough to get a 5e book anytime soon, but Planescape is an entirely different matter.
Planescape is one of the most popular settings in D&D's history. It's technically already a part of D&D 5e, it's right in the DMG's section describing the Planes of Existence. Descent into Avernus shows how they could translate the other planes to D&D 5e in a modern way. WotC has published a ton of Planescape material since the 3 Core Rulebooks (Maruts, Steel Predators, and fiends in Mordenkainen's, Hollyphants in Descent into Avernus, etc).
Planescape is popular enough to get translated to D&D 5e. Especially with the new D&D Magic: the Gathering set and Jeremy Crawford's Vi character being canonically a planeswalker from Eberron that lives in Sigil. IMO, Planescape and Dark Sun are the most likely D&D settings to be translated to D&D 5e in the near future now that Ravenloft, Eberron, and Exandria all have D&D 5e books. (Ignoring M:tG settings and that entirely new setting the WotC team is working on.)
I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
Greyhawk isn't distinct enough from the Forgotten Realms (or Exandria) to get its own setting book. It doesn't have enough of a following, especially without Mike Mearls at the head of the D&D team now (he was a huge fan of Greyhawk, but was involved in a scandal and was fired, so it's less likely for Greyhawk to come now than it was when he was working there, and since we didn't get Greyhawk when he was basically in charge of D&D, I'm fairly inclined to believe that we won't be getting it now).
Dragonlance is more problematic than most of the other classic D&D settings (representation of women and Native Americans, its extremely religious roots, its ableist portrayals of Gully Dwarves and, too an extent, Tinker Gnomes, etc), and if WotC made a Dragonlance book, it wouldn't be popular enough amongst younger fans that it would probably be a flop. It also doesn't have much new to it that D&D 5e doesn't already have from Forgotten Realms and Exandria. (Also, the fact that Fizban's is about to come out also makes me think that a Dragonlance book would be too similar in theme, especially with the book referencing both Dragonlance and Council of Wyrms.)
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Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
I really dig the Planescape concept…I think it has the greatest potential for a mind-blowing sort of sourcebook / adventure.
(I am anti-Spelljammer as more than just references, because it's just so clown bonkers it's off-putting)
I will fight you on that! Spelljammer is so ridiculous that it's amazing! Penguin-People riding atop Flying Pigs, Spider-Eels mind control humanoids, Scro (which are just "Orcs" backwards) as a subspecies of Orcs that are Lawful Evil, and Hippo-Headed, Gunslinging British-Humanoids are my jam! (pun intended)
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Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
I really dig the Planescape concept…I think it has the greatest potential for a mind-blowing sort of sourcebook / adventure.
(I am anti-Spelljammer as more than just references, because it's just so clown bonkers it's off-putting)
I will fight you on that! Spelljammer is so ridiculous that it's amazing! Penguin-People riding atop Flying Pigs, Spider-Eels mind control humanoids, Scro (which are just "Orcs" backwards) as a subspecies of Orcs that are Lawful Evil, and Hippo-Headed, Gunslinging British-Humanoids are my jam! (pun intended)
There's a difference between comedy and bonkers. Comedy has measure.
Actually, you might be right about Planescape... Hmm. I don't know enough to be authoritative.
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
I really dig the Planescape concept…I think it has the greatest potential for a mind-blowing sort of sourcebook / adventure.
(I am anti-Spelljammer as more than just references, because it's just so clown bonkers it's off-putting)
I will fight you on that! Spelljammer is so ridiculous that it's amazing! Penguin-People riding atop Flying Pigs, Spider-Eels mind control humanoids, Scro (which are just "Orcs" backwards) as a subspecies of Orcs that are Lawful Evil, and Hippo-Headed, Gunslinging British-Humanoids are my jam! (pun intended)
There's a difference between comedy and bonkers. Comedy has measure.
Nonsense! Have you not seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? It's a bonkers comedy, and is perhaps the greatest comedy in human history!
Actually, you might be right about Planescape... Hmm. I don't know enough to be authoritative.
I probably only know a small amount more than you do, as I never played previous editions. However, it is a super popular setting, and would be fairly easy to translate to D&D 5e.
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I'm really going to regret saying this and potentially dumping gas on a fire, but nobody is complaining about fictional characters being racist. The complaint is twofold:
In many cases, it is all but confirmed that the racism is correct (such as by saying that one race is inherently inclined towards being good and another evil). There's a difference between a human in the Eberron setting assuming that because an orc is an orc that they must have innate violent tendencies and a human in the Forgotten Realms setting doing the same. The former is textually, objectively wrong, but in the case of the latter, they are not wrong to think that. Even if an individual orc is not evil, the text states they are imbued by their gods with a strong tendency in that direction.
In the case of certain races (again, orcs), the negative stereotype bears a disturbing resemblance to real world stereotypes about racial minorities (strong, unintelligent, violent, sexually aggressive). And before anyone tries to read that in bad faith and say "oh, so you're saying you think black people are orcs" as I've seen people responding to this do in the past, pointing out that a stereotype exists is not the same thing as holding that stereotype. The Star Wars prequels got flak for having Watto look like an Antisemitic caricature, and you don't need to actually be an Antisemite to see the connection.
None of this is to say that I am against racial stereotypes in fantasy. You shouldn't expect a nonhuman to exhibit human behavior, and my favorite examples of this are lizardfolk and tortles. I don't even think it is inherently racist to have some fantasy species exhibit behaviors that we'd consider to be antisocial. However, I do think there is valid criticism of some fantasy racial tropes that can't be dismissed as simply the snowflakes getting offended about everything.
Tl;dr, having a fictional character be racist is fine. Having the text say that their racist views are basically correct is not so much.
I'm really going to regret saying this and potentially dumping gas on a fire, but nobody is complaining about fictional characters being racist. The complaint is twofold:
In many cases, it is all but confirmed that the racism is correct (such as by saying that one race is inherently inclined towards being good and another evil). There's a difference between a human in the Eberron setting assuming that because an orc is an orc that they must have innate violent tendencies and a human in the Forgotten Realms setting doing the same. The former is textually, objectively wrong, but in the case of the latter, they are not wrong to think that. Even if an individual orc is not evil, the text states they are imbued by their gods with a strong tendency in that direction.
In the case of certain races (again, orcs), the negative stereotype bears a disturbing resemblance to real world stereotypes about racial minorities (strong, unintelligent, violent, sexually aggressive). And before anyone tries to read that in bad faith and say "oh, so you're saying you think black people are orcs" as I've seen people responding to this do in the past, pointing out that a stereotype exists is not the same thing as holding that stereotype. The Star Wars prequels got flak for having Watto look like an Antisemitic caricature, and you don't need to actually be an Antisemite to see the connection.
None of this is to say that I am against racial stereotypes in fantasy. You shouldn't expect a nonhuman to exhibit human behavior, and my favorite examples of this are lizardfolk and tortles. I don't even think it is inherently racist to have some fantasy species exhibit behaviors that we'd consider to be antisocial. However, I do think there is valid criticism of some fantasy racial tropes that can't be dismissed as simply the snowflakes getting offended about everything.
Tl;dr, having a fictional character be racist is fine. Having the text say that their racist views are basically correct is not so much.
I disagree on Lizardfolk and Tortles, but I agree on a lot of everything else you said. Curses drive you mad.
Hey, he said “bought out by the Thanos of entertainment,” not “bought out by the Asmodeus of entertainment.” (Why do you think I was so surprised they thought he would be interested? I thought it rather unlikely myself. But Disney…. 🤔)
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But Disney owns Thanos ;). I wonder if that power makes Disney Lady Death?
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Because the same thing has been going on for a few weeks now in FB groups about DnD?
Really? Folks are saying DDB dropped UA because all future UA is 6e oriented and DDB hasn't secured their "premier rights or whatever?" Not a facebooker, but would love to see the link. I figured if it was as excessive as you're reporting, it would have shown up in one of the channels I actually do pay attention to besides Facebook. I don't need to be an innovator though in my perch pondering beyond the Infinite, I'm just as happy to be on the pulse of a hysterical meme and treating it as the joke it likely is.
Regardless of whatever proxy media frustration you're having with Facebook, it's still clear the post was in jest. So I'm sorry you can't parse fun from the serious discussions you're being exposed to in other forums. Why so serious? :D
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Bah humbug.
Missed this. Me, old? I'm in the 52% below 30, Jeff Bezos could legally be my Grandfather, and I've been doing D&D only since the gap between the EGtW announcement and the MOoT, even my homebrew thread is only slightly older than Candlekeep Mysteries. I'm not old, I just have "Strong tastes" (shuttup, Fizban, you smell).
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I wasn't referring to you specifically at all. Just pointing out that most of the "controversial decisions" that WotC has chosen for D&D lately are largely only unpopular with older players, who are also a fairly small part of the community.
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Does that mean we don’t count?!? If it wasn’t for us older players keeping things going, there wouldn’t ba a 5th edition.
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That's as accurate as old people keeping superheroes going. Sure, people who are old now are the ones who created the original, but it is also old people who most often dislike the current versions.
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Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
Never said that. And as I've said before in previous threads, I'm grateful to the older generations for keeping D&D alive long enough for me to be able to play it and especially towards those that had to go through the Satanic Panic. I just don't think that the older generations should be the authority as to what D&D is or isn't anymore. That's WotC's job. And there are also plenty of older players that like the newer changes.
The newer players will be around longer, have more long-term money to spend on D&D products, are producing more D&D media that gives WotC more publicity and brings in more newer players (Stranger Things, Critical Role, etc), and have more/newer sources of inspiration for characters and campaigns (anime, for instance). That's why WotC is prioritizing them.
And the older players have also gotten things that they've wanted. D&D 5e exists because the older players overwhelmingly dropped their support for D&D in the 4e era (continuing to play 3.5 or moving to Pathfinder 1e). The push to go back to the more traditional roots of D&D that is the core of D&D 5e is because of WotC wanting to appease older players. And that made D&D 5e more popular than any previous edition, more mainstream than ever, and more profitable than ever. The core parts of the game that the older players love so much are still a part of D&D 5e, even if they're gradually moving away from the ones that they think the game would be better without (always evil races, racial ability score increases, etc). Those are just minor things that have been/are being dropped, while the core spirit of D&D remains the same.
And they still want to appease older players. Why else would they vow to bring back 3 traditional D&D settings to 5e through 2021 and 2022? The existence of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft is overwhelmingly because WotC wants to please older fans and keep them buying their stuff. The next two classic setting books that they publish (likely to be Planescape and Dark Sun) are also going to serve that same purpose.
Yes, some lore has changed (as happens when editions progress), some parts of races have been dropped, and some non-standard D&D settings have been published (Theros, Ravnica, next Strixhaven and possibly the Domains of Delight), but the older fanbase still matters. Their presence is still influencing the products that WotC publishes, the storylines that they make, and the way that they do business as a whole. It's just gradually becoming less and less important as the fanbase becomes younger and younger (due to the combined increase in newer players thanks to 5e's popularity and the fact that the older players are eventually going to stop giving WotC more money for one reason or another).
To me, that doesn't sound at all like "you don't count" or not being grateful for the existence of D&D. It just sounds like how the world (and for-profit businesses) works.
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I will debate Planescape and Dark Sun. Dark Sun is a very maybe, given the Psionics rules backlash on all 5e versions (Mystic = hated, Tasha's = hated, UA = hated), it's unlikely that it will come around, especially giving the popularity of Eberron which does Dark Sun more universally friendly and the racism inherent in the original setting.
Nonetheless, I still think there is a high chance Dark Sun is one of the ones.
Planescape is more... Spelljammer and Planescape will be nodded at. They will have refrences. But they're not very 5E beyond refrences, they're not "core" enough. I reckon we'll see Dragonlance or Greyhawk, and honestly I'd prefer the latter.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
I really dig the Planescape concept…I think it has the greatest potential for a mind-blowing sort of sourcebook / adventure.
Or become WBtW level of childishness... I'm not anti-Planescape (I am anti-Spelljammer as more than just references, because it's just so clown bonkers it's off-putting), just more Idea Spooked.
Actually, Greyhawk could be really cool. Be grittier than any 5E release, even maybe Eberron.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
They could just reprint the psionics options from Tasha's. Yes, they're controversial, but they also are what we got, and WotC doesn't seem inclined to give us more (if they do, it will probably be something aligned with how Eberron treated Dragonmarks or how Strixhaven is treating its college features as feats).
(I'll also argue against the "racism inherent in the original setting" statement. The slavery is justified by the cruelty of the world, and 4e's Dark Sun book walked back the ****-origin of the Mul. Dark Sun can definitely be done in a non-problematic way, and according to Wizards of the Coast's own surveys, Dark Sun is one of the two most popular settings that hasn't been translated to D&D 5e yet. The other was Planescape.)
Spelljammer has been nodded at (Rime of the Frostmaiden with the Nautiloid, Dungeon of the Mad Mage with the Squid Ship, Spelljamming Helm, and Asteroid Dungeon, Mordenkainen's with the Giff, Volo's with the Neogi and reference to Mind Flayers travelling to other worlds). I agree that it's not popular or "core" enough to get a 5e book anytime soon, but Planescape is an entirely different matter.
Planescape is one of the most popular settings in D&D's history. It's technically already a part of D&D 5e, it's right in the DMG's section describing the Planes of Existence. Descent into Avernus shows how they could translate the other planes to D&D 5e in a modern way. WotC has published a ton of Planescape material since the 3 Core Rulebooks (Maruts, Steel Predators, and fiends in Mordenkainen's, Hollyphants in Descent into Avernus, etc).
Planescape is popular enough to get translated to D&D 5e. Especially with the new D&D Magic: the Gathering set and Jeremy Crawford's Vi character being canonically a planeswalker from Eberron that lives in Sigil. IMO, Planescape and Dark Sun are the most likely D&D settings to be translated to D&D 5e in the near future now that Ravenloft, Eberron, and Exandria all have D&D 5e books. (Ignoring M:tG settings and that entirely new setting the WotC team is working on.)
Greyhawk isn't distinct enough from the Forgotten Realms (or Exandria) to get its own setting book. It doesn't have enough of a following, especially without Mike Mearls at the head of the D&D team now (he was a huge fan of Greyhawk, but was involved in a scandal and was fired, so it's less likely for Greyhawk to come now than it was when he was working there, and since we didn't get Greyhawk when he was basically in charge of D&D, I'm fairly inclined to believe that we won't be getting it now).
Dragonlance is more problematic than most of the other classic D&D settings (representation of women and Native Americans, its extremely religious roots, its ableist portrayals of Gully Dwarves and, too an extent, Tinker Gnomes, etc), and if WotC made a Dragonlance book, it wouldn't be popular enough amongst younger fans that it would probably be a flop. It also doesn't have much new to it that D&D 5e doesn't already have from Forgotten Realms and Exandria. (Also, the fact that Fizban's is about to come out also makes me think that a Dragonlance book would be too similar in theme, especially with the book referencing both Dragonlance and Council of Wyrms.)
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They could just reprint the psionics options from Tasha's. Yes, they're controversial, but they also are what we got, and WotC doesn't seem inclined to give us more (if they do, it will probably be something aligned with how Eberron treated Dragonmarks or how Strixhaven is treating its college features as feats).
(I'll also argue against the "racism inherent in the original setting" statement. The slavery is justified by the cruelty of the world, and 4e's Dark Sun book walked back the ****-origin of the Mul. Dark Sun can definitely be done in a non-problematic way, and according to Wizards of the Coast's own surveys, Dark Sun is one of the two most popular settings that hasn't been translated to D&D 5e yet. The other was Planescape.)
Spelljammer has been nodded at (Rime of the Frostmaiden with the Nautiloid, Dungeon of the Mad Mage with the Squid Ship, Spelljamming Helm, and Asteroid Dungeon, Mordenkainen's with the Giff, Volo's with the Neogi and reference to Mind Flayers travelling to other worlds). I agree that it's not popular or "core" enough to get a 5e book anytime soon, but Planescape is an entirely different matter.
Planescape is one of the most popular settings in D&D's history. It's technically already a part of D&D 5e, it's right in the DMG's section describing the Planes of Existence. Descent into Avernus shows how they could translate the other planes to D&D 5e in a modern way. WotC has published a ton of Planescape material since the 3 Core Rulebooks (Maruts, Steel Predators, and fiends in Mordenkainen's, Hollyphants in Descent into Avernus, etc).
Planescape is popular enough to get translated to D&D 5e. Especially with the new D&D Magic: the Gathering set and Jeremy Crawford's Vi character being canonically a planeswalker from Eberron that lives in Sigil. IMO, Planescape and Dark Sun are the most likely D&D settings to be translated to D&D 5e in the near future now that Ravenloft, Eberron, and Exandria all have D&D 5e books. (Ignoring M:tG settings and that entirely new setting the WotC team is working on.)
Greyhawk isn't distinct enough from the Forgotten Realms (or Exandria) to get its own setting book. It doesn't have enough of a following, especially without Mike Mearls at the head of the D&D team now (he was a huge fan of Greyhawk, but was involved in a scandal and was fired, so it's less likely for Greyhawk to come now than it was when he was working there, and since we didn't get Greyhawk when he was basically in charge of D&D, I'm fairly inclined to believe that we won't be getting it now).
Dragonlance is more problematic than most of the other classic D&D settings (representation of women and Native Americans, its extremely religious roots, its ableist portrayals of Gully Dwarves and, too an extent, Tinker Gnomes, etc), and if WotC made a Dragonlance book, it wouldn't be popular enough amongst younger fans that it would probably be a flop. It also doesn't have much new to it that D&D 5e doesn't already have from Forgotten Realms and Exandria. (Also, the fact that Fizban's is about to come out also makes me think that a Dragonlance book would be too similar in theme, especially with the book referencing both Dragonlance and Council of Wyrms.)
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I will fight you on that! Spelljammer is so ridiculous that it's amazing! Penguin-People riding atop Flying Pigs, Spider-Eels mind control humanoids, Scro (which are just "Orcs" backwards) as a subspecies of Orcs that are Lawful Evil, and Hippo-Headed, Gunslinging British-Humanoids are my jam! (pun intended)
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There's a difference between comedy and bonkers. Comedy has measure.
Actually, you might be right about Planescape... Hmm. I don't know enough to be authoritative.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
Nonsense! Have you not seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail? It's a bonkers comedy, and is perhaps the greatest comedy in human history!
I probably only know a small amount more than you do, as I never played previous editions. However, it is a super popular setting, and would be fairly easy to translate to D&D 5e.
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I'm really going to regret saying this and potentially dumping gas on a fire, but nobody is complaining about fictional characters being racist. The complaint is twofold:
None of this is to say that I am against racial stereotypes in fantasy. You shouldn't expect a nonhuman to exhibit human behavior, and my favorite examples of this are lizardfolk and tortles. I don't even think it is inherently racist to have some fantasy species exhibit behaviors that we'd consider to be antisocial. However, I do think there is valid criticism of some fantasy racial tropes that can't be dismissed as simply the snowflakes getting offended about everything.
Tl;dr, having a fictional character be racist is fine. Having the text say that their racist views are basically correct is not so much.
I disagree on Lizardfolk and Tortles, but I agree on a lot of everything else you said. Curses drive you mad.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!