My favorite parts of 5e are play agency and balance at low/mid tier. This is bad for both of those.
I disagree. This is balanced, especially at low tier. And the thing I find 5e lacking in most is player agency. Once you pick your subclass, the player’s only significant choice for the rest of the campaign is whether or not to multiclass. Each of these abilities has different uses, it’s way more dynamic. I love it.
My favorite parts of 5e are play agency and balance at low/mid tier. This is bad for both of those.
I disagree. This is balanced, especially at low tier. And the thing I find 5e lacking in most is player agency. Once you pick your subclass, the player’s only significant choice for the rest of the campaign is whether or not to multiclass. Each of these abilities has different uses, it’s way more dynamic. I love it.
You have a 4% chance to lose your subclass abilites for the day on two rolls at 3rd level....
OR
You can use it infinitely for the entire day
Bounded everything is the name of the game in 5e and it drives everything to the number of encounters to how you choose to build your character. By having such a widely variable output potential its for sure not balanced. You are relying on rolls to invoke balance instead of just having a set # of uses which is bad design.
For me its less about the Math and more about the feeling. You roll max three times in a row thats usually a time of celebration but for you it means you are done for the day with your subclass. You also dont get to choose when your power is "tapped". The flavor they give is you "holding back" but you literally arent choosing to do it....the dice are. It takes away agency in your character and is backwards design logic.
Statistically its not super likely but you want to use abilties/features with confidence and this does not really invoke that for me.
I would never sit at a d4 unless I HAD to as the currently language of the Psi Refresh is not clear if it actually allows you to use the die even if you take it back to its actual size.
I love the feeling. If you roll max three times in a row you should be spent for a time. That’s part of what I love about it. A agree that the flavor should be more “spent” than “holding back,” but I still love everything about this mechanic. If they expanded that to an entire Psionicist class with no Spellcasting I would suicide/retire at least one of my current existing characters tonight to roll up a new one.
For me its less about the Math and more about the feeling. You roll max three times in a row thats usually a time of celebration but for you it means you are done for the day with your subclass.
The flip side of that is that rolling a 1 is normally a bummer and this mechanic lets you "fail forward". The outcome of that roll is bad but you're better off in the future.
You also dont get to choose when your power is "tapped". The flavor they give is you "holding back" but you literally arent choosing to do it....the dice are.
The stronger, higher level features always shrink your die so you have the agency to decide how much of a safety net you want vs how badly you want to use those powers. If you shrink your d6 to a d4 you've put yourself at very high risk of losing your die prematurely, but maybe that power is exactly what you need in your current predicament.
I would never sit at a d4 unless I HAD to as the currently language of the Psi Refresh is not clear if it actually allows you to use the die even if you take it back to its actual size.
You have a 4% chance to lose your subclass abilites for the day on two rolls at 3rd level....
OR
You can use it infinitely for the entire day
Bounded everything is the name of the game in 5e and it drives everything to the number of encounters to how you choose to build your character. By having such a widely variable output potential its for sure not balanced. You are relying on rolls to invoke balance instead of just having a set # of uses which is bad design.
I am so ******* bored with the same old mechanics getting recycled over and over and over. This is like a breath of fresh air!
For me its less about the Math and more about the feeling. You roll max three times in a row thats usually a time of celebration but for you it means you are done for the day with your subclass.
The flip side of that is that rolling a 1 is normally a bummer and this mechanic lets you "fail forward". The outcome of that roll is bad but you're better off in the future.
You also dont get to choose when your power is "tapped". The flavor they give is you "holding back" but you literally arent choosing to do it....the dice are.
The stronger, higher level features always shrink your die so you have the agency to decide how much of a safety net you want vs how badly you want to use those powers. If you shrink your d6 to a d4 you've put yourself at very high risk of losing your die prematurely, but maybe that power is exactly what you need in your current predicament.
I would never sit at a d4 unless I HAD to as the currently language of the Psi Refresh is not clear if it actually allows you to use the die even if you take it back to its actual size.
I dont mind the die getting smaller with use. I think the "Use this power to reduce the die size" is perfect actually. You get to choose to make the die size smaller which is great. This mechanic needs to be the thing they focus on and move forward with as I am all behind that.
The part I hate is the RNGeus telling you how many uses you get throughout the day. I may roll a 1 on my battlemaster die but at least I still get a shot at the secondary effect (Trip or Menacing) but I know for a fact I will get it back on a short rest.
I also chose at that moment to use the ability and lose a use of it knowing full well how many uses I have and that it will come back for the day. I want to use a reaction to help a friend out and I roll a 6....yeah I chose to use the ability but the benefit I got over a 5 is one point of HP better and now my powers suck worse for the rest of the day.
That is bad design...I am punished for using my ability and the only benefit I get is that I prevent one extra point of damage? That is terrible payoff.
Even if the pay off was beter it could be justified. You roll a 6 you get an additional die to roll but then the die goes down. That would even make much more sense than this.
I wouldn't feel as bad if I got more payoff for my risk.
That’s fair. If rolling max reduced the die, but was also a “crit” that would work.
I don’t mind the gamble on the die though, you do get 1 reset/day. For low-level play, the restriction seems fair to me, and once play gets higher, the chances of rolling that bust gets smaller simply because the die gets bigger.
The only change I would make to this mechanic for a full class based around it (a full “caster” version of it so to speak) would be that rolling 1s could potentially bump your die up above normal for your level, but always reset on a Short Rest. Kinda like the opposite of a Warlock.
That’s fair. If rolling max reduced the die, but was also a “crit” that would work.
I don’t mind the gamble on the die though, you do get 1 reset/day. For low-level play, the restriction seems fair to me, and once play gets higher, the chances of rolling that bust gets smaller simply because the die gets bigger.
The only change I would make to this mechanic for a full class based around it (a full “caster” version of it so to speak) would be that rolling 1s could potentially bump your die up above normal for your level, but always reset on a Short Rest. Kinda like the opposite of a Warlock.
Yeah I mean rolling a Max should have a hefty benefit if it could cost me my subclass for the day. Even if it just added INT mod to the roll on certain things that would be cool.
I dont mind the idea as a base but I think the way it works could be tweaked.
I also chose at that moment to use the ability and lose a use of it knowing full well how many uses I have and that it will come back for the day. I want to use a reaction to help a friend out and I roll a 6....yeah I chose to use the ability but the benefit I got over a 5 is one point of HP better and now my powers suck worse for the rest of the day.
Or until you roll a 1....
Let me guess, you’re not a gambler? That’s part of what’s missing from 5e for me. It used to be that everything in D&D was an exercise in risk analysis. In 5e, it’s all about “optimization” like a gorram WoW raid. 🥱 I miss the gamble.
I also chose at that moment to use the ability and lose a use of it knowing full well how many uses I have and that it will come back for the day. I want to use a reaction to help a friend out and I roll a 6....yeah I chose to use the ability but the benefit I got over a 5 is one point of HP better and now my powers suck worse for the rest of the day.
Or until you roll a 1....
Let me guess, you’re not a gambler? That’s part of what’s missing from 5e for me. It used to be that everything in D&D was an exercise in risk analysis. In 5e, it’s all about “optimization” like a gorram WoW raid. 🥱 I miss the gamble.
If more of the game was about gambling I would understand but the 5e chassis is built on predictability. Its the main reason we have bounded accuracy and Mod uses per rest features.
4e had the same deal as well and it is something that as a DM I feel helps me create a balanced, challenging atmosphere for my players. They have only moved towards it rather than away and while I think the mechanic will strike a cord in some who enjoyed proficiency dice in 3.5 I do not think it is a good basis for an entire Psionic system as currently written.
Yeah I mean rolling a Max should have a hefty benefit if it could cost me my subclass for the day.
Did you miss the part about rolling 1s making your die bigger again? You have the same statistical probability of rolling a 1 on a d4 as rolling a 4.
Honestly...take that part out. Why if the flavor/theme behind it is you are rationing out psionic power you all of a sudden without focusing just get your die size back? The mechanics clash with the theme.
Psi Replenishment should be the only way to get your die size back and it takes a concerted effort on your part to do so. Maybe give higher levels more use of the feature but it would make more thematic AND mechanical sense.
I guess that’s what bores me about 5e, everything is so predictable. This genuinely has me excited about something other than homebrew for the first time in a while.
Yeah I mean rolling a Max should have a hefty benefit if it could cost me my subclass for the day.
Did you miss the part about rolling 1s making your die bigger again? You have the same statistical probability of rolling a 1 on a d4 as rolling a 4.
Honestly...take that part out. Why if the flavor/theme behind it is you are rationing out psionic power you all of a sudden without focusing just get your die size back? The mechanics clash with the theme.
Psi Replenishment should be the only way to get your die size back and it takes a concerted effort on your part to do so. Maybe give higher levels more use of the feature but it would make more thematic AND mechanical sense.
I disagree. To me, that gamble of rolling a 1 to get the pay-off is part of what makes this so interesting. The flavor is you didn’t “give it your all” because you rolled a 1, so now you have a little extra to use for a while until you roll that high number again. The ebb and flow is fun and flavorful and I can already see the amazing RP moments when this mechanic either saves the day or gets the party in a pickle they have to figure a way out of.
Ultimately I think the predictable way is better for most tables with the gambler variant being good for those who want that risk/reward scenario but that is my opinion.
If I am in the minority I will deal and focus on how to challenge a pisonic character just like any other character.
I will make sure to take the survey though and I am interested to see how that turns out overall.
I also chose at that moment to use the ability and lose a use of it knowing full well how many uses I have and that it will come back for the day. I want to use a reaction to help a friend out and I roll a 6....yeah I chose to use the ability but the benefit I got over a 5 is one point of HP better and now my powers suck worse for the rest of the day.
Not for the rest of the day. If you roll a 1 it'll go back up in size.
Look, I get the discomfort. Humans are naturally risk-averse; losses usually feel worse than equivalent gains. If I take $5 from you that feels worse than if I give you $5 for free; some studies suggest losses feel twice as bad.
But you gotta recognize that you're absolutely fixated on the negative outcomes, when there's an equivalent positive outcome that you're ignoring. And no matter how unlucky you get on any given day, the feature comes with a once-a-day reset button to let you recover from rolling the max die three times against all odds. In practice until you've burned up your Psi Replenishment and shrunk your second die down to your d4, you've got a long way to go before going bust, so the randomness factor is inconsequential compared to how willing you are to use the stronger powers and shrink the die.
Framing it a bit differently, you're pretty much guaranteed to roll the Psionic Talent die way more times than a Battle Master gets to roll their Superiority dice. A Psi Knight can spam Protective Field, Telekinetic Strike and Psionic Thrust all day and probably still have their die at the end of the day...unless they start pushing their luck with Telekinetic Movement and shrink their die prematurely. A 7th level Battle Master gets 4 dice before having to rest, and doesn't necessarily have control over when their next rest is. Conversely Battle Masters usually get more useful effects when they do use one of their maneuvers.
One thing you have to realize is I started playing a Psionicist in 2e. Back then, you had to make “contact” with a target (that might take up to three tries) and then you could use your power, and then you rolled just to see if the power went off or if it fizzled out and you wasted your Psi Points. Back then, your power might not work at all and still cost you your resource. This Talent die reminds me of that, but without anywhere near the same downside. It feels right to me as an old guard player.
I also chose at that moment to use the ability and lose a use of it knowing full well how many uses I have and that it will come back for the day. I want to use a reaction to help a friend out and I roll a 6....yeah I chose to use the ability but the benefit I got over a 5 is one point of HP better and now my powers suck worse for the rest of the day.
Not for the rest of the day. If you roll a 1 it'll go back up in size.
Look, I get the discomfort. Humans are naturally risk-averse; losses usually feel worse than equivalent gains. If I take $5 from you that feels worse than if I give you $5 for free; some studies suggest losses feel twice as bad.
But you gotta recognize that you're absolutely fixated on the negative outcomes, when there's an equivalent positive outcome that you're ignoring. And no matter how unlucky you get on any given day, the feature comes with a once-a-day reset button to let you recover from rolling the max die three times against all odds. In practice until you've burned up your Psi Replenishment and shrunk your second die down to your d4, you've got a long way to go before going bust, so the randomness factor is inconsequential compared to how willing you are to use the stronger powers and shrink the die.
Framing it a bit differently, you're pretty much guaranteed to roll the Psionic Talent die way more times than a Battle Master gets to roll their Superiority dice. A Psi Knight can spam Protective Field, Telekinetic Strike and Psionic Thrust all day and probably still have their die at the end of the day...unless they start pushing their luck with Telekinetic Movement and shrink their die prematurely. A 7th level Battle Master gets 4 dice before having to rest, and doesn't necessarily have control over when their next rest is. Conversely Battle Masters usually get more useful effects when they do use one of their maneuvers.
Ultimately the BM knows either way. The unknown and the potential negative outcome produce way too much anxiety for my taste. I maybe "boring" for liking predictability but I still have to deal with tons of unpredictable things in DnD beyond my subclass features.
Yes I could roll a 1 but then I don't really help my buddy out who is now down because I rolled poorly. yeah my die goes back up a size but now he is rolling death saves.... Yay me?
The design feels backwards....at least as a Grave cleric if I cancel a Nat 20 I know that I chose to burn that Channel Divinity and I know that I saved that guy from the critical hit.
This way I fail upwards which is not something to be proud of most of the time.
I disagree. This is balanced, especially at low tier. And the thing I find 5e lacking in most is player agency. Once you pick your subclass, the player’s only significant choice for the rest of the campaign is whether or not to multiclass. Each of these abilities has different uses, it’s way more dynamic. I love it.
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You have a 4% chance to lose your subclass abilites for the day on two rolls at 3rd level....
OR
You can use it infinitely for the entire day
Bounded everything is the name of the game in 5e and it drives everything to the number of encounters to how you choose to build your character. By having such a widely variable output potential its for sure not balanced. You are relying on rolls to invoke balance instead of just having a set # of uses which is bad design.
I love the feeling. If you roll max three times in a row you should be spent for a time. That’s part of what I love about it. A agree that the flavor should be more “spent” than “holding back,” but I still love everything about this mechanic. If they expanded that to an entire Psionicist class with no Spellcasting I would suicide/retire at least one of my current existing characters tonight to roll up a new one.
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The flip side of that is that rolling a 1 is normally a bummer and this mechanic lets you "fail forward". The outcome of that roll is bad but you're better off in the future.
The stronger, higher level features always shrink your die so you have the agency to decide how much of a safety net you want vs how badly you want to use those powers. If you shrink your d6 to a d4 you've put yourself at very high risk of losing your die prematurely, but maybe that power is exactly what you need in your current predicament.
It's intended to let you recover from an unusable die.
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I am so ******* bored with the same old mechanics getting recycled over and over and over. This is like a breath of fresh air!
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All the this!!!
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I guess I will be in the minority then...
I dont mind the die getting smaller with use. I think the "Use this power to reduce the die size" is perfect actually. You get to choose to make the die size smaller which is great. This mechanic needs to be the thing they focus on and move forward with as I am all behind that.
The part I hate is the RNGeus telling you how many uses you get throughout the day. I may roll a 1 on my battlemaster die but at least I still get a shot at the secondary effect (Trip or Menacing) but I know for a fact I will get it back on a short rest.
I also chose at that moment to use the ability and lose a use of it knowing full well how many uses I have and that it will come back for the day. I want to use a reaction to help a friend out and I roll a 6....yeah I chose to use the ability but the benefit I got over a 5 is one point of HP better and now my powers suck worse for the rest of the day.
That is bad design...I am punished for using my ability and the only benefit I get is that I prevent one extra point of damage? That is terrible payoff.
Even if the pay off was beter it could be justified. You roll a 6 you get an additional die to roll but then the die goes down. That would even make much more sense than this.
I wouldn't feel as bad if I got more payoff for my risk.
That’s fair. If rolling max reduced the die, but was also a “crit” that would work.
I don’t mind the gamble on the die though, you do get 1 reset/day. For low-level play, the restriction seems fair to me, and once play gets higher, the chances of rolling that bust gets smaller simply because the die gets bigger.
The only change I would make to this mechanic for a full class based around it (a full “caster” version of it so to speak) would be that rolling 1s could potentially bump your die up above normal for your level, but always reset on a Short Rest. Kinda like the opposite of a Warlock.
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Yeah I mean rolling a Max should have a hefty benefit if it could cost me my subclass for the day. Even if it just added INT mod to the roll on certain things that would be cool.
I dont mind the idea as a base but I think the way it works could be tweaked.
Or until you roll a 1....
Let me guess, you’re not a gambler? That’s part of what’s missing from 5e for me. It used to be that everything in D&D was an exercise in risk analysis. In 5e, it’s all about “optimization” like a gorram WoW raid. 🥱 I miss the gamble.
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Did you miss the part about rolling 1s making your die bigger again? You have the same statistical probability of rolling a 1 on a d4 as rolling a 4.
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If more of the game was about gambling I would understand but the 5e chassis is built on predictability. Its the main reason we have bounded accuracy and Mod uses per rest features.
4e had the same deal as well and it is something that as a DM I feel helps me create a balanced, challenging atmosphere for my players. They have only moved towards it rather than away and while I think the mechanic will strike a cord in some who enjoyed proficiency dice in 3.5 I do not think it is a good basis for an entire Psionic system as currently written.
Honestly...take that part out. Why if the flavor/theme behind it is you are rationing out psionic power you all of a sudden without focusing just get your die size back? The mechanics clash with the theme.
Psi Replenishment should be the only way to get your die size back and it takes a concerted effort on your part to do so. Maybe give higher levels more use of the feature but it would make more thematic AND mechanical sense.
I guess that’s what bores me about 5e, everything is so predictable. This genuinely has me excited about something other than homebrew for the first time in a while.
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I disagree. To me, that gamble of rolling a 1 to get the pay-off is part of what makes this so interesting. The flavor is you didn’t “give it your all” because you rolled a 1, so now you have a little extra to use for a while until you roll that high number again. The ebb and flow is fun and flavorful and I can already see the amazing RP moments when this mechanic either saves the day or gets the party in a pickle they have to figure a way out of.
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Ultimately I think the predictable way is better for most tables with the gambler variant being good for those who want that risk/reward scenario but that is my opinion.
If I am in the minority I will deal and focus on how to challenge a pisonic character just like any other character.
I will make sure to take the survey though and I am interested to see how that turns out overall.
Not for the rest of the day. If you roll a 1 it'll go back up in size.
Look, I get the discomfort. Humans are naturally risk-averse; losses usually feel worse than equivalent gains. If I take $5 from you that feels worse than if I give you $5 for free; some studies suggest losses feel twice as bad.
But you gotta recognize that you're absolutely fixated on the negative outcomes, when there's an equivalent positive outcome that you're ignoring. And no matter how unlucky you get on any given day, the feature comes with a once-a-day reset button to let you recover from rolling the max die three times against all odds. In practice until you've burned up your Psi Replenishment and shrunk your second die down to your d4, you've got a long way to go before going bust, so the randomness factor is inconsequential compared to how willing you are to use the stronger powers and shrink the die.
Framing it a bit differently, you're pretty much guaranteed to roll the Psionic Talent die way more times than a Battle Master gets to roll their Superiority dice. A Psi Knight can spam Protective Field, Telekinetic Strike and Psionic Thrust all day and probably still have their die at the end of the day...unless they start pushing their luck with Telekinetic Movement and shrink their die prematurely. A 7th level Battle Master gets 4 dice before having to rest, and doesn't necessarily have control over when their next rest is. Conversely Battle Masters usually get more useful effects when they do use one of their maneuvers.
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“Fortune favors the bold.” I will roll that die boldly, and accept what the fates have to offer.
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One thing you have to realize is I started playing a Psionicist in 2e. Back then, you had to make “contact” with a target (that might take up to three tries) and then you could use your power, and then you rolled just to see if the power went off or if it fizzled out and you wasted your Psi Points. Back then, your power might not work at all and still cost you your resource. This Talent die reminds me of that, but without anywhere near the same downside. It feels right to me as an old guard player.
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Ultimately the BM knows either way. The unknown and the potential negative outcome produce way too much anxiety for my taste. I maybe "boring" for liking predictability but I still have to deal with tons of unpredictable things in DnD beyond my subclass features.
Yes I could roll a 1 but then I don't really help my buddy out who is now down because I rolled poorly. yeah my die goes back up a size but now he is rolling death saves.... Yay me?
The design feels backwards....at least as a Grave cleric if I cancel a Nat 20 I know that I chose to burn that Channel Divinity and I know that I saved that guy from the critical hit.
This way I fail upwards which is not something to be proud of most of the time.