This is so much better than the mystic. And they've made the psi spells not hilariously OP like they were before.
I'm pretty happy with these. I hated the mystic's build-a-class style, and I'm so glad they've dumped that trash-heap where it belongs.
This is something a real person on Reddit actually said. I don't know what portion of the playerbase he/she represents, but just know that you're competing with opinions like this.
Yeah. I know that there are people who disagree with this, but I think that Mystics still should be a class. Psionics has always had its own specific class (correct me if I'm wrong).
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I feel like psionics suits the fluff of the sorcerer class better than wizards anyway. I understand that others will disagree. Add to that the fact that sorcerers are kind of the red-headed stepchild and it makes sense if WotC might want to push sorcerers to the fore when it comes to psionics.
Considering that when the Sorcerer debuted in 3e, they were almost a direct rip from many aspects of the old 2e Psionicist... almost....
I have to say, the more I re-read this, the more I actually really like the Psionic Talent Die. I just wish they found a way to utilize this feature to replace Spellcasting altogether for an official Psionicist class.
This is so much better than the mystic. And they've made the psi spells not hilariously OP like they were before.
I'm pretty happy with these. I hated the mystic's build-a-class style, and I'm so glad they've dumped that trash-heap where it belongs.
This is something a real person on Reddit actually said. I don't know what portion of the playerbase he/she represents, but just know that you're competing with opinions like this.
Yeah. I know that there are people who disagree with this, but I think that Mystics still should be a class. Psionics has always had its own specific class (correct me if I'm wrong).
Psionics in first edition wasn't even a class it was a chance based on your attributes, race, and class that you had psionics or didn't have them.
This is so much better than the mystic. And they've made the psi spells not hilariously OP like they were before.
I'm pretty happy with these. I hated the mystic's build-a-class style, and I'm so glad they've dumped that trash-heap where it belongs.
This is something a real person on Reddit actually said. I don't know what portion of the playerbase he/she represents, but just know that you're competing with opinions like this.
Yeah. I know that there are people who disagree with this, but I think that Mystics still should be a class. Psionics has always had its own specific class (correct me if I'm wrong).
Psionics in first edition wasn't even a class it was a chance based on your attributes, race, and class that you had psionics or didn't have them.
Yes, you basically had a 5% chance of getting a wild talent and that was pretty much it until the Complete Psionics Handbook came out in ‘91.
This is so much better than the mystic. And they've made the psi spells not hilariously OP like they were before.
I'm pretty happy with these. I hated the mystic's build-a-class style, and I'm so glad they've dumped that trash-heap where it belongs.
This is something a real person on Reddit actually said. I don't know what portion of the playerbase he/she represents, but just know that you're competing with opinions like this.
Yeah. I know that there are people who disagree with this, but I think that Mystics still should be a class. Psionics has always had its own specific class (correct me if I'm wrong).
Psionics in first edition wasn't even a class it was a chance based on your attributes, race, and class that you had psionics or didn't have them.
Yes, you basically had a 5% chance of getting a wild talent and that was pretty much it until the Complete Psionics Handbook came out in ‘91.
Okay, thanks for the correction. I've never played any edition besides 5e.
Well, psionics being a class has been a theme kept through most editions. I just wish that they didn't abandon the idea of having a psionic based class. There's no reason why they can't exist.
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I wouldn't mind sorcerer so much if they completely got rid of them needing components and not tie it to a sorcery point based mechanic. Honestly don't think it breaks anything if they could every time they cast especially if the subclass had a streamlined/limited spell list.
"Psionic Talent" Die: This is a decent idea executed horribly. The notion of having what basically amounts to a sub-stat that tells you how powerful your psionic abilities are, which you can directly roll to influence many of those abilities, is not a bad one. It also allows psionic abilities to be stat-agnostic, for all those people who think psionic power/talent shouldn't revolve around Intelligence (you're wrong and you should feel bad, but now you're allowed to be wrong and feel bad and still psychic). Having played a bunch of Savage Worlds lately, using the evolving die steps (d4, d6, d8...) to represent growing power is an elegant solution I approve of.
Having that power burn out and die when you roll really well is hornswoggle. It's also super obnoxious to keep track of on a digital sheet like DDB's - "what, what size was my Psydie at again? Did I get down to a d4 or am I still at a d6? ****in'...I dunno, just tell me what my PsyDie is, DM". The fact that the psychic never has any control over when this happens, no ability whatsoever to learn to control or moderate their power and pace themselves throughout the day, freaking bothers me.A nine thousand year old gith supergoober with four hundred levels of everything psionic and a d100 Talent die still has no more control over when his stuff 'burns out' than the rawest freaking rookie.
To say nothing of attaching the "punishment" aspect of the roll to the HIGH result, so that every time you roll your Psionic Talent thingus you're hoping and praying you don't get that max number...what the shit? How are you supposed to enjoy those moments when a clutch-ass PsyDie roll saves your moment when those same rolls are the ones that burn out your entire freaking subclass for THE ENTIRE DAY? Yeah okay, everybody gets that once-a-day refresh, but man...even if I know better than to write it off without playing it, I cannot say the idea fills me with glee.
Some of the ideas in here are good. Just...man. I hate it when the Idea Guy at Wizards has to turn their shit over to whichever evil-souled bridge troll does their second-pass work on shit like this...
I agree. It is bizarre that you're rooting for low results not high. I mean, you want to roll a 5 on a d6 all the time. You never want a 6. A 6 would screw you up. That's a badly written mechanic. Sure, it kind of makes sense, but makes playing this super weird. You want to roll high, but not too high. You want to roll low, but only if it is the lowest result possible, and only if you've previously used an ability that makes you decrease in die size.
This is bad. I don't like this. This is taking the 5e design philosophy of "make it simple, you know, that's why we can't have Mystics" and then just laughs at it. What about this system is simple? 5e doesn't like complicated things, so they avoid making something that people are asking for, and to replace that complicated thing, they make a confusing system to represent the complicated class that they abandoned.
WIZARDS! Choose a strategy! If you want things to be complicated, make it complicated for the people who want it that way. If you want to make it simple, make it simple for the people who want it that way.
Gosh, I hate this UA.
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Like, I can kinda get what they were going for. They have severely overused the "you can use this thing a number of times equal to your Whatever modifier per rest" mechanic. They want a limit on the PsyDie shenanery to stop people from hyper-abusing it because it's free (staring squarely at you, 'Guidance'). And the whole 'ebb and flow of power' thing could be a cool mechanical differentiator for psionic abilities. But forcing you to make a save or some other such thing every single time you PsyDie would get hella annoying hella quick and bog the hell out of gameplay, so however it works has to be contained within the single original roll. I've used similar sorts of mechanics myself in the past, in some of my best-received homebrew.
But man...this just feels so backwards. It's like losing a point of proficiency every time you nat 20, and if you do it enough times to zero it out you just can't make ability checks anymore. What the frog.
The talent die seems like an attempt at capturing 2e psionics , and a lesser extent, 3e where there was some variability with getting a power to work and how well.
At first reading, these subclasses seem pretty darn weak...
Psi Knight: Does largely just seem like a Battlemaster at the mercy of RNG, and someone in design seems to have gone overboard on making shoving a class feature - without acknowledging that an ordinary fighter can shove 4-8 times a turn if they choose, all using their actual primary ability score. Psi-Enhanced Metabolism is neat if you know your campaign is heading in one very specific direction (*cough* Baldur's Gate 3 *cough*) but otherwise meh, and Bulwark of Force is solid enough if you wasted invested in Intelligence rather than Constitution and feats.
Soulknife: Psi-Bolstered Knack is a gem, and possibly worth the price of admission if you want to play a rogue that doesn't particularly need a subclass i.e. an archer (with the new cunning action) or a charmer - basically just a common rogue with brilliant intuition. Psychic Whispers is fun, but telepathy is also everywhere at the moment and surely a bit tiresome at the table after a point. Psychic Blades continues to be for very specific campaigns/scenarios, and I'm not a fan of them personally because it just tends to suit solo jaunts (same as disguising armor as clothes... when standing next to party members in plate armor). Beyond that just RNG, and waiting till level 13 to get self-targeting Invisibility that eats up subclass resources.
Psionic Soul: I like Psionic Discovery, but very conscious that the variant UA rules address most niche divination needs. Psychic Sorcery is mostly a weaker Subtle Spell (though metamagic picks are precious so still something), with a fairly foggy RNG element - if I were a DM, I would rule that if you gamble on bypassing material requirements you don't have and fail then the spell fizzles & the slot is expended. Psychic Strike is not my idea of a great feature personally, and far removed from the blaster role. Mind Over Body is though; you'll generally only ever need one aspect at a time, so very affordable spell savers. Psychic Aura actually looks quite effective as a control effect, but for some reason I'm kind of sad that a level 9 spellcaster capstone is dealing single-target damage and taking 15 yards of movement off enemies - while acknowledging those yards can make a real difference.
Intellect Fortress: No sorcerer should ever take this spell unless the UA rules are in effect, or they are a character in Baldur's Gate 3. Wizards finding scrolls = whatever.
Mind Sliver: Alas, it was too good to be true for bards... Still a fine cantrip for everyone else!
Mind Thrust: Still a decent spell, would consider.
Metabolic Control: Weird - none of the classes who can access this directly are likely to need more short rests than their allies, in which case this offers nothing at all.
Telekinetic: Quite nifty for Psionic Soul, who will often be light on bonus actions - Psi Knight gets some fun out of it, Soulknife should avoid.
Telepathic: Eh; the die cost is a big deal for these classes, and they already gave 2 out of 3 sub-classes telepathy... it is something for Psi Knights to do out of combat, but not a priority trait at all.
Tower of Iron Will: Decent, certainly unusual.
Wild Talent: Actually quite like this - if you aren't eligible for Prodigy, this may be the next best thing for heavy skill users & can be junked for a little damage when not in demand.
The talent die seems like an attempt at capturing 2e psionics , and a lesser extent, 3e where there was some variability with getting a power to work and how well.
Like, I can kinda get what they were going for. They have severely overused the "you can use this thing a number of times equal to your Whatever modifier per rest" mechanic. They want a limit on the PsyDie shenanery to stop people from hyper-abusing it because it's free (staring squarely at you, 'Guidance'). And the whole 'ebb and flow of power' thing could be a cool mechanical differentiator for psionic abilities. But forcing you to make a save or some other such thing every single time you PsyDie would get hella annoying hella quick and bog the hell out of gameplay, so however it works has to be contained within the single original roll. I've used similar sorts of mechanics myself in the past, in some of my best-received homebrew.
But man...this just feels so backwards. It's like losing a point of proficiency every time you nat 20, and if you do it enough times to zero it out you just can't make ability checks anymore. What the frog.
I actually kinda like it. It’s new, it has a built in soft limiter that gets mitigated as you level up because since the die grows, the probability of rolling that max reduces, and even if you step down from a d12 to a d10 is not so bad. It can go back up naturally (and I tend to roll a lot of 1s so yay). It feels right to me. I like it.
If they made a class all about picking powers to use your psi die on it would be awesome. Maybe make it so that it could temporarily go above your max size at level but always reset on every short rest. I would be singing their praises if they did that. Even if they used this mechanic instead of spell slots, even if they still used the spell list I could live with it to a degree.
idk why i feel so underwhelmed b y this UA. I am already not the biggest advocate on psionics, not that i dislike it i am neither here nor there, but it feels like in order to get any of these subclasses to feel like you are actually using the flavor that is put forward, you need to put so many of your; ASIs, known spells and whatnot in order to make it a psionic.
Not to mention they really should not have left those other psycic spells behind cause a lot of them were really cool from a RP standpoint like Id Insinuation
My hope is that they abandoned those spells to tun them into Psionic powers for a full class using the Psi Talent Die mechanic in place of Spellcasting altogether, as they were originally Psionic powers in the first place.
Yeah. I know that there are people who disagree with this, but I think that Mystics still should be a class. Psionics has always had its own specific class (correct me if I'm wrong).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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Considering that when the Sorcerer debuted in 3e, they were almost a direct rip from many aspects of the old 2e Psionicist... almost....
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I have to say, the more I re-read this, the more I actually really like the Psionic Talent Die. I just wish they found a way to utilize this feature to replace Spellcasting altogether for an official Psionicist class.
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I just don't think that it has to be a competition between Sorcerers and Wizards to see who gets a psionic subclass. Why can't both of them get it?
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Psionics in first edition wasn't even a class it was a chance based on your attributes, race, and class that you had psionics or didn't have them.
Yes, you basically had a 5% chance of getting a wild talent and that was pretty much it until the Complete Psionics Handbook came out in ‘91.
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Okay, thanks for the correction. I've never played any edition besides 5e.
Well, psionics being a class has been a theme kept through most editions. I just wish that they didn't abandon the idea of having a psionic based class. There's no reason why they can't exist.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I wouldn't mind sorcerer so much if they completely got rid of them needing components and not tie it to a sorcery point based mechanic. Honestly don't think it breaks anything if they could every time they cast especially if the subclass had a streamlined/limited spell list.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
Okay.
"Psionic Talent" Die: This is a decent idea executed horribly. The notion of having what basically amounts to a sub-stat that tells you how powerful your psionic abilities are, which you can directly roll to influence many of those abilities, is not a bad one. It also allows psionic abilities to be stat-agnostic, for all those people who think psionic power/talent shouldn't revolve around Intelligence (you're wrong and you should feel bad, but now you're allowed to be wrong and feel bad and still psychic). Having played a bunch of Savage Worlds lately, using the evolving die steps (d4, d6, d8...) to represent growing power is an elegant solution I approve of.
Having that power burn out and die when you roll really well is hornswoggle. It's also super obnoxious to keep track of on a digital sheet like DDB's - "what, what size was my Psydie at again? Did I get down to a d4 or am I still at a d6? ****in'...I dunno, just tell me what my PsyDie is, DM". The fact that the psychic never has any control over when this happens, no ability whatsoever to learn to control or moderate their power and pace themselves throughout the day, freaking bothers me. A nine thousand year old gith supergoober with four hundred levels of everything psionic and a d100 Talent die still has no more control over when his stuff 'burns out' than the rawest freaking rookie.
To say nothing of attaching the "punishment" aspect of the roll to the HIGH result, so that every time you roll your Psionic Talent thingus you're hoping and praying you don't get that max number...what the shit? How are you supposed to enjoy those moments when a clutch-ass PsyDie roll saves your moment when those same rolls are the ones that burn out your entire freaking subclass for THE ENTIRE DAY? Yeah okay, everybody gets that once-a-day refresh, but man...even if I know better than to write it off without playing it, I cannot say the idea fills me with glee.
Some of the ideas in here are good. Just...man. I hate it when the Idea Guy at Wizards has to turn their shit over to whichever evil-souled bridge troll does their second-pass work on shit like this...
Please do not contact or message me.
Crawl back in your hole, you. DX
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I agree. It is bizarre that you're rooting for low results not high. I mean, you want to roll a 5 on a d6 all the time. You never want a 6. A 6 would screw you up. That's a badly written mechanic. Sure, it kind of makes sense, but makes playing this super weird. You want to roll high, but not too high. You want to roll low, but only if it is the lowest result possible, and only if you've previously used an ability that makes you decrease in die size.
This is bad. I don't like this. This is taking the 5e design philosophy of "make it simple, you know, that's why we can't have Mystics" and then just laughs at it. What about this system is simple? 5e doesn't like complicated things, so they avoid making something that people are asking for, and to replace that complicated thing, they make a confusing system to represent the complicated class that they abandoned.
WIZARDS! Choose a strategy! If you want things to be complicated, make it complicated for the people who want it that way. If you want to make it simple, make it simple for the people who want it that way.
Gosh, I hate this UA.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Like, I can kinda get what they were going for. They have severely overused the "you can use this thing a number of times equal to your Whatever modifier per rest" mechanic. They want a limit on the PsyDie shenanery to stop people from hyper-abusing it because it's free (staring squarely at you, 'Guidance'). And the whole 'ebb and flow of power' thing could be a cool mechanical differentiator for psionic abilities. But forcing you to make a save or some other such thing every single time you PsyDie would get hella annoying hella quick and bog the hell out of gameplay, so however it works has to be contained within the single original roll. I've used similar sorts of mechanics myself in the past, in some of my best-received homebrew.
But man...this just feels so backwards. It's like losing a point of proficiency every time you nat 20, and if you do it enough times to zero it out you just can't make ability checks anymore. What the frog.
Please do not contact or message me.
The talent die seems like an attempt at capturing 2e psionics , and a lesser extent, 3e where there was some variability with getting a power to work and how well.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
At first reading, these subclasses seem pretty darn weak...
Psi Knight: Does largely just seem like a Battlemaster at the mercy of RNG, and someone in design seems to have gone overboard on making shoving a class feature - without acknowledging that an ordinary fighter can shove 4-8 times a turn if they choose, all using their actual primary ability score. Psi-Enhanced Metabolism is neat if you know your campaign is heading in one very specific direction (*cough* Baldur's Gate 3 *cough*) but otherwise meh, and Bulwark of Force is solid enough if you
wastedinvested in Intelligence rather than Constitution and feats.Soulknife: Psi-Bolstered Knack is a gem, and possibly worth the price of admission if you want to play a rogue that doesn't particularly need a subclass i.e. an archer (with the new cunning action) or a charmer - basically just a common rogue with brilliant intuition. Psychic Whispers is fun, but telepathy is also everywhere at the moment and surely a bit tiresome at the table after a point. Psychic Blades continues to be for very specific campaigns/scenarios, and I'm not a fan of them personally because it just tends to suit solo jaunts (same as disguising armor as clothes... when standing next to party members in plate armor). Beyond that just RNG, and waiting till level 13 to get self-targeting Invisibility that eats up subclass resources.
Psionic Soul: I like Psionic Discovery, but very conscious that the variant UA rules address most niche divination needs. Psychic Sorcery is mostly a weaker Subtle Spell (though metamagic picks are precious so still something), with a fairly foggy RNG element - if I were a DM, I would rule that if you gamble on bypassing material requirements you don't have and fail then the spell fizzles & the slot is expended. Psychic Strike is not my idea of a great feature personally, and far removed from the blaster role. Mind Over Body is though; you'll generally only ever need one aspect at a time, so very affordable spell savers. Psychic Aura actually looks quite effective as a control effect, but for some reason I'm kind of sad that a level 9 spellcaster capstone is dealing single-target damage and taking 15 yards of movement off enemies - while acknowledging those yards can make a real difference.
Intellect Fortress: No sorcerer should ever take this spell unless the UA rules are in effect, or they are a character in Baldur's Gate 3. Wizards finding scrolls = whatever.
Mind Sliver: Alas, it was too good to be true for bards... Still a fine cantrip for everyone else!
Mind Thrust: Still a decent spell, would consider.
Metabolic Control: Weird - none of the classes who can access this directly are likely to need more short rests than their allies, in which case this offers nothing at all.
Telekinetic: Quite nifty for Psionic Soul, who will often be light on bonus actions - Psi Knight gets some fun out of it, Soulknife should avoid.
Telepathic: Eh; the die cost is a big deal for these classes, and they already gave 2 out of 3 sub-classes telepathy... it is something for Psi Knights to do out of combat, but not a priority trait at all.
Tower of Iron Will: Decent, certainly unusual.
Wild Talent: Actually quite like this - if you aren't eligible for Prodigy, this may be the next best thing for heavy skill users & can be junked for a little damage when not in demand.
I agree
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I actually kinda like it. It’s new, it has a built in soft limiter that gets mitigated as you level up because since the die grows, the probability of rolling that max reduces, and even if you step down from a d12 to a d10 is not so bad. It can go back up naturally (and I tend to roll a lot of 1s so yay). It feels right to me. I like it.
If they made a class all about picking powers to use your psi die on it would be awesome. Maybe make it so that it could temporarily go above your max size at level but always reset on every short rest. I would be singing their praises if they did that. Even if they used this mechanic instead of spell slots, even if they still used the spell list I could live with it to a degree.
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Without playtesting it yet it seem like Psionic Talent die refreshing on a short rest like Battle Masters would be better.
This discussion should have a link to this one, the original psionic Fighter, Rogue, Wizard subclasses discussion: Psychic Fighter, Soul Knife, Psionic Wizard UA
There's a lot on this thread that still applies to this one.
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idk why i feel so underwhelmed b y this UA. I am already not the biggest advocate on psionics, not that i dislike it i am neither here nor there, but it feels like in order to get any of these subclasses to feel like you are actually using the flavor that is put forward, you need to put so many of your; ASIs, known spells and whatnot in order to make it a psionic.
Not to mention they really should not have left those other psycic spells behind cause a lot of them were really cool from a RP standpoint like Id Insinuation
My hope is that they abandoned those spells to tun them into Psionic powers for a full class using the Psi Talent Die mechanic in place of Spellcasting altogether, as they were originally Psionic powers in the first place.
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