I don't think anyone would say that the sorcerer and Ranger are in need of revisions. edit - AREN'T. They need revisions. Ack.
As a warlock and bard player, I'm all for feats spreading Invocations and Inspirations (if they made one anyways). I don't think sorcerer should be exempt either.
I also think that, yes, this feat might be part of a stealth-fix for sorcerers. Berserker is routinely crapped on, so they made Zealot, which shares a lot in common. Elemental Monk had the same with their Sun-soul subclass. Blade pact warlocks got Hexblade subclass along with new Invocations to fix their problems. I think that WotC is angling to fix both Ranger and Sorcerer with feats and alternate features, instead of just subclasses.
I mean, what are the biggest issues with Sorcerer? Spell selection, not enough PP, not enough Metamagic, font of magic being too costly. What's being offered between this and the class pdf? A way to work metamagic, more points, bigger spell selection, more things to do with Font of Magic. All stealth-fixes that don't involve reprinting a new class. Is it a feat tax? Pretty much. Is it bad design? The base sorcerer is bad, but the fix is playable, and that's all that matters.
I'm going to need to go over the Ranger stuff again in light of this feat, and think if it should be considered a Ranger feat tax as well.
Also, as others have pointed out, even Sorcerers benefit from this feat by getting 2 extra points and additional metamagic which they can actually replace.
Yes. It's so effective, that almost every single Sorcerer will take it. It means the base class is so weak that literally anything that enhances it is mandatory (which is bad design).
Unless you actually believe WoTC will go back and change the class itself, add-ons like this feat and possible class feature variants are about what you can expect to get in terms of attempts to rectify the class's problems in 5e.
Your martial training has helped you develop a particular style of fighting. As a result, you learn one Fighting Style option of your choice from the fighter class. If you already have a style, the one you choose must be different. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace this feat’s fighting style with another one from the fighter class that you don’t have.
That would also include the Fighting Styles from the back of the CFVs UA, as well as the the Superior Technique fighting style from the actual Fighter entry of that doc. Anybody have any ideas about that? Some things are scratching around in my brain about that, but I haven’t quite figured them out yet.
note: the three damage type spells, crusher, piercer and slasher all work with spells, so a druid with thorn whip and ice knife could end up having an vaild reason to pick up piercer, as could one who is just about to get wrath of nature and who already has shillelagh justify crusher
also how does piercer interact with sneak attack and smite? will an rouge with a d4 dagger be able to reroll their d6 sneak attack dice and add additional d6 damage dice when critting with that dagger, will an paladin or bard using a d8 rapier be able to reroll that extra d10 force damage from banishing smite?
also these feats make variant humans even more busted since now they can double down on the strengths of their class from level one, an meta-magic adept human sorcerer will at levels 1-3 have double the sorcery points and metamagic options they are supposed to have, an variant human monk could pick up unarmed fighting as their fighting style with fighting adept or whatever it is called and never have to bother with any weapons ever since just dual weilding fists will be more effective, out-do everyone else at the table for dps at level 1 and then change fighting style to something more useful once they reach 11th level, an human warlock could get antagonizing blast from the start and then be free to ether choose both of the remaining good eldritch blast invocation at level two in eldritch spear and repelling blast or have one more option at 2nd level for more nice problem solving and roleplaying invocations, an level 1 variant human fighter could combine thrown weapon fighting with two weapon fighting and deal the same kinda alarmingly high damage at level 1 as an unarmed fighting monk can etc
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Hrm.... Blind Fighting is a great ability; especially if you've a darkness-devil sight warlock. Thrown Weapon Fighting is less a bonus and more "enables knife thrower as an option outside rogue." Unarmed Fighting is same, but monk instead of rogue. Those are the only ones I would use a feat on.
Piercer just says "one of the attack's damage dice" which technically does include sneak attack dice and smite dice, as well as any magical effect like from a firebrand.
Variant human is probably the same, imho. These feats are nice, but you'll equal out with other races at lvl 4 when you need attribute boosts.
Hrm.... Blind Fighting is a great ability; especially if you've a darkness-devil sight warlock. Thrown Weapon Fighting is less a bonus and more "enables knife thrower as an option outside rogue." Unarmed Fighting is same, but monk instead of rogue. Those are the only ones I would use a feat on.
Piercer just says "one of the attack's damage dice" which technically does include sneak attack dice and smite dice, as well as any magical effect like from a firebrand.
Variant human is probably the same, imho. These feats are nice, but you'll equal out with other races at lvl 4 when you need attribute boosts.
Where is the Blind Fighting feat? I can't seem to find it in the pdf.
Hrm.... Blind Fighting is a great ability; especially if you've a darkness-devil sight warlock. Thrown Weapon Fighting is less a bonus and more "enables knife thrower as an option outside rogue." Unarmed Fighting is same, but monk instead of rogue. Those are the only ones I would use a feat on.
Piercer just says "one of the attack's damage dice" which technically does include sneak attack dice and smite dice, as well as any magical effect like from a firebrand.
Variant human is probably the same, imho. These feats are nice, but you'll equal out with other races at lvl 4 when you need attribute boosts.
Where is the Blind Fighting feat? I can't seem to find it in the pdf.
It's a fighting style from the Class Variant Features Ua.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
Your martial training has helped you develop a particular style of fighting. As a result, you learn one Fighting Style option of your choice from the fighter class. If you already have a style, the one you choose must be different. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace this feat’s fighting style with another one from the fighter class that you don’t have.
That would also include the Fighting Styles from the back of the CFVs UA, as well as the the Superior Technique fighting style from the actual Fighter entry of that doc. Anybody have any ideas about that? Some things are scratching around in my brain about that, but I haven’t quite figured them out yet.
A monk taking the Unarmed Fighting style is currently the only thing that comes to mind.
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Your martial training has helped you develop a particular style of fighting. As a result, you learn one Fighting Style option of your choice from the fighter class. If you already have a style, the one you choose must be different. Whenever you gain a level, you can replace this feat’s fighting style with another one from the fighter class that you don’t have.
That would also include the Fighting Styles from the back of the CFVs UA, as well as the the Superior Technique fighting style from the actual Fighter entry of that doc. Anybody have any ideas about that? Some things are scratching around in my brain about that, but I haven’t quite figured them out yet.
I like the idea of a druid that uses the protection style, and combine it with temp hp from totems for Shepard druids. That, or a rogue with archery... I'm sorry it's not the most original, but it's all I can think of...
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
Blind fighting is pretty tricky, considering how rare counters to being hidden are. Level 14 rogue. There's the second tier spell, See Invisible (Concentration) for invisible critters only, not ones just plain Hiding while visible, or using something else. True Sight is a super rare ability to cast, given the limited spell slots. Ranger gets something at level 18. Warlock's Witch Sight (see critters hiding under illusions/transformations) is level 15.
Being able to deal with hiding beings is a pretty high level trick - getting something at level 1 is definitely OP for this edition, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was dropped totally.
Personally, I kind of feel like getting a Fighting Style shouldn't be the whole of the feat. +1 AC is weaker than raising Dex by 2, and +2 to damage with a one-handed weapon is a bit worse than getting +1 hit/+1 damage (plus skill use). Feats should be competative with +2 to a main stat. Maybe not a half-feat, but something alongside getting a FS.
I like that the spells granted by these feats that increase an attribute by +1, states the attribute raised is the spell casting attribute of those spells. I like that it helps prevent spell casting MAD, by keeping those to a casters primary attribute SAD.
I prefer a 2 level dip into Variant Ranger for a Monk. Think about that one for a minute. But now, with the Variant Monks being able to choose their own Monk weapons, it gets better. A Dart can finally be Monk weapons, so dip for the Ranger and pick up both the Unarmed fighting style, and Thrown Weapon fighting style too. Imagine what combo you might pick for a Kensei.
A Variant Ranger can take the Druidic Warrior fighting style, and take Archery too. A Paladin can get both Blesed Warrior and something else too. And between Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate for Superior Technique that can give any weapon users a boost.
I like that the spells granted by these feats that increase an attribute by +1, states the attribute raised is the spell casting attribute of those spells. I like that it helps prevent spell casting MAD, by keeping those to a casters primary attribute SAD.
Well, unless they are already planning to go Mad anyway.
I really like it that all the ones that grant a 1ce/LR spell specifically state that you can use Slots to cast too. I can see a good reason for Wizards to take Artificer Initiate. And Shield Training of course.
Artificer Initiate: It is nice, but I would rather get a cantrip and a no-prerequisites infusion. However, I really like the new wording that allows you to cast the spell with spell slots. I am definitely retroactively adding this to Magic Initiate.
Chef: YES! We need more feats like this. Having more concrete things we can do with tools in the game that have some kind of mechanical benefit is great.
Crusher: These weapon feats really are not all that powerful on their own, but they let you feel like you are really doing something when you attack beyond just whittling away at their hit points. I like that. However, I do have one question. Why does "crusher" push a creature; shouldn't it be knocking them prone?
Eldritch Adept: I adore soft multi-classing through feats. We should have more of these. Oh wait, we do. We already have Magic Initiate, Martial Adept, and Ritual Caster.
Fey Touched: I like it. It is not for me, but I can see the appeal.
Fighting Initiate: Hey look, it is what the Weapon "Master" feat should have been. This one should also give a +1 to strength or dexterity as well.
Gunner: I have never had a problem with guns in my games, but I have to ask. How is a fighter loading and firing a MUZZLE-LOADER two (at 5th level), three (at 11th level), four (at 20th level), or eight times (with action surge) in six seconds? That is not skill; that is a magic gun. A magic gun that is already an artificer infusion.
Metamagic Adept: (Same as Eldritch Adept) Also, I say give them more sorcery points. The number should equal either their intelligence, wisdom, or charisma modifier or their proficiency bonus.
Piercer: (Same as Crusher)
Poisoner: (Same as Chef)
Practiced Expert: I have... complicated feelings about double proficiency. With all the ways in the game that allow you to improve ability checks (bardic inspiration, flash of genius, guidance, the help action), I find that you need to start setting ridiculous DCs in order to even challenge a party. A DC of 30 for a level 9 party is not "nearly impossible" when the person rolling has expertise; it is just moderately difficult, and at level 18, a DC of 40 becomes quite doable. I am in a group with a 16th-level artificer, and their last smith's tools check was a 43, and I don't think they or the other character with thieve's tools expertise have rolled below a 30 on a thieves' tools check in the last two months. However, that said, there isn't anything wrong with this feat, and like Prodigy, I wouldn't ban it from the table.
Shadow Touched: (Same as Fey Touched)
Shield Training: Good for characters that don't get shields or have to juggle their spell components, but where is the feat that lets me turn a shield into the weapon we all know it is?
Slasher: (Same as Crusher)
Tandem Tactician: A little niche, but very good for a character that does not have a lot to do with their bonus action. It is also a lovely buff to the mastermind.
Tracker: No... just no. First, hunter's mark should never have been a spell to begin with. Second, Fey Touched does the first part of this feat already, but better. Third, the second part of this feat is just wholly unnecessary (see Practiced Expert for reasoning).
Shield Training: Good for characters that don't get shields or have to juggle their spell components, but where is the feat that lets me turn a shield into the weapon we all know it is?
I know. James even made a homebrew fighter subclass, based on wielding shields. That's how much we want weapons out of shields.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I don't think anyone would say that the sorcerer and Ranger are in need of revisions. edit - AREN'T. They need revisions. Ack.
As a warlock and bard player, I'm all for feats spreading Invocations and Inspirations (if they made one anyways). I don't think sorcerer should be exempt either.
I also think that, yes, this feat might be part of a stealth-fix for sorcerers. Berserker is routinely crapped on, so they made Zealot, which shares a lot in common. Elemental Monk had the same with their Sun-soul subclass. Blade pact warlocks got Hexblade subclass along with new Invocations to fix their problems. I think that WotC is angling to fix both Ranger and Sorcerer with feats and alternate features, instead of just subclasses.
I mean, what are the biggest issues with Sorcerer? Spell selection, not enough PP, not enough Metamagic, font of magic being too costly. What's being offered between this and the class pdf? A way to work metamagic, more points, bigger spell selection, more things to do with Font of Magic. All stealth-fixes that don't involve reprinting a new class. Is it a feat tax? Pretty much. Is it bad design? The base sorcerer is bad, but the fix is playable, and that's all that matters.
I'm going to need to go over the Ranger stuff again in light of this feat, and think if it should be considered a Ranger feat tax as well.
I just had a thought. What about an Order of the Profane Soul Blood Hunter with Eldritch Adept, has anyone got any thoughts on that?
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I like that. It’s a really good idea. Do you think they could take invocations with prerequisites?
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Only if they took at least 1 level of Warlock. But still, that’s not bad.
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Unless you actually believe WoTC will go back and change the class itself, add-ons like this feat and possible class feature variants are about what you can expect to get in terms of attempts to rectify the class's problems in 5e.
Another thing just occurred to me:
That would also include the Fighting Styles from the back of the CFVs UA, as well as the the Superior Technique fighting style from the actual Fighter entry of that doc. Anybody have any ideas about that? Some things are scratching around in my brain about that, but I haven’t quite figured them out yet.
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note: the three damage type spells, crusher, piercer and slasher all work with spells, so a druid with thorn whip and ice knife could end up having an vaild reason to pick up piercer, as could one who is just about to get wrath of nature and who already has shillelagh justify crusher
also how does piercer interact with sneak attack and smite? will an rouge with a d4 dagger be able to reroll their d6 sneak attack dice and add additional d6 damage dice when critting with that dagger, will an paladin or bard using a d8 rapier be able to reroll that extra d10 force damage from banishing smite?
also these feats make variant humans even more busted since now they can double down on the strengths of their class from level one, an meta-magic adept human sorcerer will at levels 1-3 have double the sorcery points and metamagic options they are supposed to have, an variant human monk could pick up unarmed fighting as their fighting style with fighting adept or whatever it is called and never have to bother with any weapons ever since just dual weilding fists will be more effective, out-do everyone else at the table for dps at level 1 and then change fighting style to something more useful once they reach 11th level, an human warlock could get antagonizing blast from the start and then be free to ether choose both of the remaining good eldritch blast invocation at level two in eldritch spear and repelling blast or have one more option at 2nd level for more nice problem solving and roleplaying invocations, an level 1 variant human fighter could combine thrown weapon fighting with two weapon fighting and deal the same kinda alarmingly high damage at level 1 as an unarmed fighting monk can etc
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
That's the best Eldritch Blast invocation.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Hrm.... Blind Fighting is a great ability; especially if you've a darkness-devil sight warlock. Thrown Weapon Fighting is less a bonus and more "enables knife thrower as an option outside rogue." Unarmed Fighting is same, but monk instead of rogue. Those are the only ones I would use a feat on.
Piercer just says "one of the attack's damage dice" which technically does include sneak attack dice and smite dice, as well as any magical effect like from a firebrand.
Variant human is probably the same, imho. These feats are nice, but you'll equal out with other races at lvl 4 when you need attribute boosts.
Where is the Blind Fighting feat? I can't seem to find it in the pdf.
It's a fighting style from the Class Variant Features Ua.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Yeah but it has completely disappeared from publication. Maybe because it destroys the 18th level ranger ability with a better one.
A monk taking the Unarmed Fighting style is currently the only thing that comes to mind.
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I like the idea of a druid that uses the protection style, and combine it with temp hp from totems for Shepard druids. That, or a rogue with archery... I'm sorry it's not the most original, but it's all I can think of...
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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Blind fighting is pretty tricky, considering how rare counters to being hidden are. Level 14 rogue. There's the second tier spell, See Invisible (Concentration) for invisible critters only, not ones just plain Hiding while visible, or using something else. True Sight is a super rare ability to cast, given the limited spell slots. Ranger gets something at level 18. Warlock's Witch Sight (see critters hiding under illusions/transformations) is level 15.
Being able to deal with hiding beings is a pretty high level trick - getting something at level 1 is definitely OP for this edition, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was dropped totally.
Personally, I kind of feel like getting a Fighting Style shouldn't be the whole of the feat. +1 AC is weaker than raising Dex by 2, and +2 to damage with a one-handed weapon is a bit worse than getting +1 hit/+1 damage (plus skill use). Feats should be competative with +2 to a main stat. Maybe not a half-feat, but something alongside getting a FS.
I like that the spells granted by these feats that increase an attribute by +1, states the attribute raised is the spell casting attribute of those spells. I like that it helps prevent spell casting MAD, by keeping those to a casters primary attribute SAD.
I prefer a 2 level dip into Variant Ranger for a Monk. Think about that one for a minute. But now, with the Variant Monks being able to choose their own Monk weapons, it gets better. A Dart can finally be Monk weapons, so dip for the Ranger and pick up both the Unarmed fighting style, and Thrown Weapon fighting style too. Imagine what combo you might pick for a Kensei.
A Variant Ranger can take the Druidic Warrior fighting style, and take Archery too. A Paladin can get both Blesed Warrior and something else too. And between Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate for Superior Technique that can give any weapon users a boost.
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Well, unless they are already planning to go Mad anyway.
I really like it that all the ones that grant a 1ce/LR spell specifically state that you can use Slots to cast too. I can see a good reason for Wizards to take Artificer Initiate. And Shield Training of course.
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My thoughts, for what they are worth:
Artificer Initiate: It is nice, but I would rather get a cantrip and a no-prerequisites infusion. However, I really like the new wording that allows you to cast the spell with spell slots. I am definitely retroactively adding this to Magic Initiate.
Chef: YES! We need more feats like this. Having more concrete things we can do with tools in the game that have some kind of mechanical benefit is great.
Crusher: These weapon feats really are not all that powerful on their own, but they let you feel like you are really doing something when you attack beyond just whittling away at their hit points. I like that. However, I do have one question. Why does "crusher" push a creature; shouldn't it be knocking them prone?
Eldritch Adept: I adore soft multi-classing through feats. We should have more of these. Oh wait, we do. We already have Magic Initiate, Martial Adept, and Ritual Caster.
Fey Touched: I like it. It is not for me, but I can see the appeal.
Fighting Initiate: Hey look, it is what the Weapon "Master" feat should have been. This one should also give a +1 to strength or dexterity as well.
Gunner: I have never had a problem with guns in my games, but I have to ask. How is a fighter loading and firing a MUZZLE-LOADER two (at 5th level), three (at 11th level), four (at 20th level), or eight times (with action surge) in six seconds? That is not skill; that is a magic gun. A magic gun that is already an artificer infusion.
Metamagic Adept: (Same as Eldritch Adept) Also, I say give them more sorcery points. The number should equal either their intelligence, wisdom, or charisma modifier or their proficiency bonus.
Piercer: (Same as Crusher)
Poisoner: (Same as Chef)
Practiced Expert: I have... complicated feelings about double proficiency. With all the ways in the game that allow you to improve ability checks (bardic inspiration, flash of genius, guidance, the help action), I find that you need to start setting ridiculous DCs in order to even challenge a party. A DC of 30 for a level 9 party is not "nearly impossible" when the person rolling has expertise; it is just moderately difficult, and at level 18, a DC of 40 becomes quite doable. I am in a group with a 16th-level artificer, and their last smith's tools check was a 43, and I don't think they or the other character with thieve's tools expertise have rolled below a 30 on a thieves' tools check in the last two months. However, that said, there isn't anything wrong with this feat, and like Prodigy, I wouldn't ban it from the table.
Shadow Touched: (Same as Fey Touched)
Shield Training: Good for characters that don't get shields or have to juggle their spell components, but where is the feat that lets me turn a shield into the weapon we all know it is?
Slasher: (Same as Crusher)
Tandem Tactician: A little niche, but very good for a character that does not have a lot to do with their bonus action. It is also a lovely buff to the mastermind.
Tracker: No... just no. First, hunter's mark should never have been a spell to begin with. Second, Fey Touched does the first part of this feat already, but better. Third, the second part of this feat is just wholly unnecessary (see Practiced Expert for reasoning).
Bark side up, bark side down, it really, truly does not matter.
Shield Training: Good for characters that don't get shields or have to juggle their spell components, but where is the feat that lets me turn a shield into the weapon we all know it is?
I know. James even made a homebrew fighter subclass, based on wielding shields. That's how much we want weapons out of shields.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!