yo! so iv looked at the DMGs alt spell system that uses mana points and it seemed like it gave more freedom for spell casters with no downsides. Has anyone used this system? is it worse? is it better?
It be more like a point buy system, correct? For example, 1st level spells costs 1 mana point, 2nd level spells costs 2 mana points? I've thought about using this system a few times, but I like the current system 5E has now. I can benefits for some classes, but for some, like the warlock, it might ruin the central idea of the class. Very interesting though. I'll have to look into it.
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Hi, it's me. I make DnD stuff sometimes. I play for fun how I want to. I may not play correctly, but I play enjoyably.
I played in a game once with the house rule that wizards could cast any spell in their spellbook if they used their own spellbook and increased casting times to one round per spell level.
For example. A first level wizard didn't prep magic missile. They now want to cast it. One round to open and read out the spell and it's released at the start of the next round. https://omegle****/
Worked out ok for casting out of combat, but casting in combat was a huge risk. (Ie crit if hit during casting)
The downside is that it allows and even encourages optimisation, it's often better to cast two big spells than three little ones. That can end up losing some of the flavour that the lower spells provide.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeah, I crunched the numbers one time and once you’re up into tier 2 it’s easy to throw a lot more high level spells than you’d have with fixed slots. Then once you get into really high levels there’s a bit of pinch the other way since iirc you can only have one slot each for 6-9. Mana pools sound fine in theory, but in practice high level spells’ damage scales too high to make most lower options worthwhile even in slightly larger quantities. The systems pools work in tend to have weaker scaling to cost and typically some other factor to limit how many big punches you can throw in a short period, and the spell points system doesn’t really account for either of these.
That is one of the main reasons I disliked the power point system.
The real problem is that D&D spells are more exponential than addditive. It is designed so that a spell upcast is not quite as good as a spell of that level. At 20th level,l the powerpoint system gives more than 30x more powerpoints than at 1st level, but the 9th level spells cost less than 6x the cost of 1st level spell. six first level spells should not be convertible to a 9th level spell. I would have made it 18 first level spells cost the same as a 9th level spell.
i havent played with them yet but it sounds nice tbh if you dont power game you get to cast more of your favorite spells. tho i could see how having that many cast of shield would be op. tho having someone burn all of their spell slots in one fight to deal the most DPR isnt bad for a dm.
You’re missing the point; it doesn’t encourage you to cast more spells overall, it encourages you to just concentrate the points into the highest level you can, ultimately resulting in fewer casts per day.
People at my table aren’t inclined towards min-maxing, so it hasn’t been a problem for us. I find the added flexibility really helps Sorcerers to stay on par with other full casters instead of a little anemic like they seem to feel with the spell slot system, but I wouldn’t really use them for other classes because they’re all powerful and flexible enough already.
You’re missing the point; it doesn’t encourage you to cast more spells overall, it encourages you to just concentrate the points into the highest level you can, ultimately resulting in fewer casts per day.
That may be your experience, but mine has been the exact opposite. 🤷♂️ Every table is different.
Fun fact. TSR types actually considered power points for spell casters back in the day, but were overruled I think. The system was eventually brought back and used by Frank Mentzer in for the Basic D&D Immortals and later simplified by Allston in Wrath of the Immortals.
I like it for sorcerers because they need a boost and it helps them to feel different from other spellcasters.
I don't really like it in general though, as the game already has an issue with resource expenditure on short days and this can make that even worse.
Maximum freedom doesn't always result in maximum creativity or fun. Sometimes being "stuck" with 1st or 2nd level spells can force you to improvise with what you've got or to use spells you wouldn't have otherwise. And sometimes those moments can be some of the most fun and memorable. At the very least they help to round out your character.
It gives casters more flexibility and thus more power. If it's more beneficial for them to use a standard spread of low, medium and higher-level spells/day, they can do that; if instead they're facing fewer harder-hitting encounters per day where having a higher number of harder-hitting 5th-level bombs is beneficial, they can do that instead.
If "more power for the casters" is your objective you'll probably find it enjoyable, but I wager most folks around here think they have enough (if not too much) already.
I agree with some of the others. It’s great for sorcerers, but unnecessary for anyone else. Sorcerers used to use points in 3rd edition, so I think they were designed to use them, but then they got slapped down and forced to use slots like everyone else. Like left handed people in penmanship class back when I went to school.
I dislike it because it gives the freedom of a high level caster to spam 9th level spells
Actually, the 5e system doesn't, but it actually seems to then go a bit too far the other way; you can only create one slot for each level from 6-9 per LR.
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yo! so iv looked at the DMGs alt spell system that uses mana points and it seemed like it gave more freedom for spell casters with no downsides. Has anyone used this system? is it worse? is it better?
It be more like a point buy system, correct? For example, 1st level spells costs 1 mana point, 2nd level spells costs 2 mana points? I've thought about using this system a few times, but I like the current system 5E has now. I can benefits for some classes, but for some, like the warlock, it might ruin the central idea of the class. Very interesting though. I'll have to look into it.
Hi, it's me. I make DnD stuff sometimes. I play for fun how I want to. I may not play correctly, but I play enjoyably.
Page 288 of the DMG has an alternative magic power point system to use instead of spell slots.
I dislike it.
I played in a game once with the house rule that wizards could cast any spell in their spellbook if they used their own spellbook and increased casting times to one round per spell level.
For example. A first level wizard didn't prep magic missile. They now want to cast it. One round to open and read out the spell and it's released at the start of the next round. https://omegle****/
Worked out ok for casting out of combat, but casting in combat was a huge risk. (Ie crit if hit during casting)
The downside is that it allows and even encourages optimisation, it's often better to cast two big spells than three little ones. That can end up losing some of the flavour that the lower spells provide.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Yeah, I crunched the numbers one time and once you’re up into tier 2 it’s easy to throw a lot more high level spells than you’d have with fixed slots. Then once you get into really high levels there’s a bit of pinch the other way since iirc you can only have one slot each for 6-9. Mana pools sound fine in theory, but in practice high level spells’ damage scales too high to make most lower options worthwhile even in slightly larger quantities. The systems pools work in tend to have weaker scaling to cost and typically some other factor to limit how many big punches you can throw in a short period, and the spell points system doesn’t really account for either of these.
That is one of the main reasons I disliked the power point system.
The real problem is that D&D spells are more exponential than addditive. It is designed so that a spell upcast is not quite as good as a spell of that level. At 20th level,l the powerpoint system gives more than 30x more powerpoints than at 1st level, but the 9th level spells cost less than 6x the cost of 1st level spell. six first level spells should not be convertible to a 9th level spell. I would have made it 18 first level spells cost the same as a 9th level spell.
Well, you can’t stockpile 9th level slots as I understand it, but 5th level is still pretty OP when you can have 6 or more of them all ready at once.
i havent played with them yet but it sounds nice tbh if you dont power game you get to cast more of your favorite spells. tho i could see how having that many cast of shield would be op. tho having someone burn all of their spell slots in one fight to deal the most DPR isnt bad for a dm.
You’re missing the point; it doesn’t encourage you to cast more spells overall, it encourages you to just concentrate the points into the highest level you can, ultimately resulting in fewer casts per day.
People at my table aren’t inclined towards min-maxing, so it hasn’t been a problem for us. I find the added flexibility really helps Sorcerers to stay on par with other full casters instead of a little anemic like they seem to feel with the spell slot system, but I wouldn’t really use them for other classes because they’re all powerful and flexible enough already.
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That may be your experience, but mine has been the exact opposite. 🤷♂️ Every table is different.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Fun fact. TSR types actually considered power points for spell casters back in the day, but were overruled I think. The system was eventually brought back and used by Frank Mentzer in for the Basic D&D Immortals and later simplified by Allston in Wrath of the Immortals.
I like it for sorcerers because they need a boost and it helps them to feel different from other spellcasters.
I don't really like it in general though, as the game already has an issue with resource expenditure on short days and this can make that even worse.
Maximum freedom doesn't always result in maximum creativity or fun. Sometimes being "stuck" with 1st or 2nd level spells can force you to improvise with what you've got or to use spells you wouldn't have otherwise. And sometimes those moments can be some of the most fun and memorable. At the very least they help to round out your character.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
It gives casters more flexibility and thus more power. If it's more beneficial for them to use a standard spread of low, medium and higher-level spells/day, they can do that; if instead they're facing fewer harder-hitting encounters per day where having a higher number of harder-hitting 5th-level bombs is beneficial, they can do that instead.
If "more power for the casters" is your objective you'll probably find it enjoyable, but I wager most folks around here think they have enough (if not too much) already.
I agree with some of the others. It’s great for sorcerers, but unnecessary for anyone else. Sorcerers used to use points in 3rd edition, so I think they were designed to use them, but then they got slapped down and forced to use slots like everyone else. Like left handed people in penmanship class back when I went to school.
I dislike it because it gives the freedom of a high level caster to spam 9th level spells
its just to over powered
Actually, the 5e system doesn't, but it actually seems to then go a bit too far the other way; you can only create one slot for each level from 6-9 per LR.