If you use a magic item to raise your ability score and the item allows a raise to the ability maximum, but you use it to raise your ability to a number below 20, do you still gain the raised maximum or is that lost?
Two examples:
1) Say my non-Barbarian is at 18 WIS and I read the Book of Exalted Deeds ("...your Wisdom score increases by 2, to a maximum of 24") to increase WIS to 20. Is the possibility of a maximum ability lost? Would the better thing to do be to wait to read this until I'm 20 WIS, so I can now be 22? Otherwise, it seems any other ASI, feat or other magic item (non-maximum raising) is null.
2) Same question but with a non-Barbarian at 19 WIS. I know it would raise the Wisdom to 21, but there's no way to raise it to 22 again anymore, unless I have a new magic item, right? I should wait until I raise it to 20 before using the item?
It seems to be worded in such a way that it does not increase your wisdom maximum. That however would be dumb and you should treat it like a Tome of Understanding and have it increase the wisdom maximum to 24.
RAW it probably locks you out. But as a GM I'd rule that any effect that permanently boosts an ability score and has the ability to raise it above 20 gives you a new cap even if you don't meet it at that time. Getting ability boosts above 20 is so rare in 5E that I don't think that players should be locked out because they used something before maxing out the score.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you have 18 wisdom and two books, one tome with +1 Wis to a max of 19 and the other super tome +1 Wis to a max of 20.
Clearly you should read the first tome and then the super tome.
But in the fantasy world the character has no concept of "ability score maximums" or the difference between wisdom 19 and 20.
So you are super meta gaming and if I was the DM I wouldn't be happy if you held on to a tome not reading it just so that you can wait until your wisdom was higher. I would never give you another tome again...
Yeah, I like what y’all are saying that as a DM I would rule that any magic item like that automatically raises your Maximum as wel.
Thank you all!
No chance I would rule that. It is not what the item does, its not raising maximums, it is a raising an ability "unless you have already reached the highest amount possible".
If you have 18 wisdom and two books, one tome with +1 Wis to a max of 19 and the other super tome +1 Wis to a max of 20.
Clearly you should read the first tome and then the super tome.
But in the fantasy world the character has no concept of "ability score maximums" or the difference between wisdom 19 and 20.
So you are super meta gaming and if I was the DM I wouldn't be happy if you held on to a tome not reading it just so that you can wait until your wisdom was higher. I would never give you another tome again...
But the numbers aren't just pulled from nowhere, they represent the ability in the game. You don't know that Jimbo has 18 DEX and Cletus has 20 DEX, but given some time to observe them, you can conclude that Cletus is a better shot with his bow.
An intelligent or insightful person would be able to understand that your tome grants a certain level of enlightenment and that the super tome is more advanced material. Cause there's actual words in the book that explain what it's about. That's not metagaming, it's just translating a block of text into an in-world object that can be examined. Is it totally unbelievable to see an advanced book and think, "I need to learn more before I can get the full benefit of this material?" I've thought that many times in my life and it seems totally reasonable to me that a character who is supposed to be smarter/wiser than I would be able to recognize the same thing.
If you have 18 wisdom and two books, one tome with +1 Wis to a max of 19 and the other super tome +1 Wis to a max of 20.
Clearly you should read the first tome and then the super tome.
But in the fantasy world the character has no concept of "ability score maximums" or the difference between wisdom 19 and 20.
So you are super meta gaming and if I was the DM I wouldn't be happy if you held on to a tome not reading it just so that you can wait until your wisdom was higher. I would never give you another tome again...
But the numbers aren't just pulled from nowhere, they represent the ability in the game. You don't know that Jimbo has 18 DEX and Cletus has 20 DEX, but given some time to observe them, you can conclude that Cletus is a better shot with his bow.
An intelligent or insightful person would be able to understand that your tome grants a certain level of enlightenment and that the super tome is more advanced material. Cause there's actual words in the book that explain what it's about. That's not metagaming, it's just translating a block of text into an in-world object that can be examined. Is it totally unbelievable to see an advanced book and think, "I need to learn more before I can get the full benefit of this material?" I've thought that many times in my life and it seems totally reasonable to me that a character who is supposed to be smarter/wiser than I would be able to recognize the same thing.
Sure they understand which one is more advanced. But to understand the max wisdom caps on item... please....
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If you use a magic item to raise your ability score and the item allows a raise to the ability maximum, but you use it to raise your ability to a number below 20, do you still gain the raised maximum or is that lost?
Two examples:
1) Say my non-Barbarian is at 18 WIS and I read the Book of Exalted Deeds ("...your Wisdom score increases by 2, to a maximum of 24") to increase WIS to 20. Is the possibility of a maximum ability lost? Would the better thing to do be to wait to read this until I'm 20 WIS, so I can now be 22? Otherwise, it seems any other ASI, feat or other magic item (non-maximum raising) is null.
2) Same question but with a non-Barbarian at 19 WIS. I know it would raise the Wisdom to 21, but there's no way to raise it to 22 again anymore, unless I have a new magic item, right? I should wait until I raise it to 20 before using the item?
Okay is there a reason why you keep specifying a non-barbarian? Is it somehow relevant to the item?
No, I jus know at level 20 their Strength and Constitution go up by 4 and didn’t want that to factor at all.
If Wizards could raise the INT and CON like that...................... *sigh
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
RAW it probably locks you out. But as a GM I'd rule that any effect that permanently boosts an ability score and has the ability to raise it above 20 gives you a new cap even if you don't meet it at that time. Getting ability boosts above 20 is so rare in 5E that I don't think that players should be locked out because they used something before maxing out the score.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I’m inclined to agree with 6thLyranGuard.
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Yeah, I like what y’all are saying that as a DM I would rule that any magic item like that automatically raises your Maximum as wel.
Thank you all!
If you have 18 wisdom and two books, one tome with +1 Wis to a max of 19 and the other super tome +1 Wis to a max of 20.
Clearly you should read the first tome and then the super tome.
But in the fantasy world the character has no concept of "ability score maximums" or the difference between wisdom 19 and 20.
So you are super meta gaming and if I was the DM I wouldn't be happy if you held on to a tome not reading it just so that you can wait until your wisdom was higher. I would never give you another tome again...
No chance I would rule that. It is not what the item does, its not raising maximums, it is a raising an ability "unless you have already reached the highest amount possible".
But the numbers aren't just pulled from nowhere, they represent the ability in the game. You don't know that Jimbo has 18 DEX and Cletus has 20 DEX, but given some time to observe them, you can conclude that Cletus is a better shot with his bow.
An intelligent or insightful person would be able to understand that your tome grants a certain level of enlightenment and that the super tome is more advanced material. Cause there's actual words in the book that explain what it's about. That's not metagaming, it's just translating a block of text into an in-world object that can be examined. Is it totally unbelievable to see an advanced book and think, "I need to learn more before I can get the full benefit of this material?" I've thought that many times in my life and it seems totally reasonable to me that a character who is supposed to be smarter/wiser than I would be able to recognize the same thing.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Sure they understand which one is more advanced. But to understand the max wisdom caps on item... please....