Just fore some background information, I'm starting a campaign laced with a lot of race issues towards humans (trying to get my friends to play other races and not just Human variants for the feat). As such, they are not allow to be a human at all, humanoids are allowed however.
The tricky part: I have a player in one of my campaigns that wants to have a Dragon PC. Not a dragonborn, but a legitimate dragon. I understand that dragons as a while in D&D are very tough, as well as somewhat powerful in magic as well. But this isn't like I can just give the player a CR 10 character and expect it to work throughout the whole game, ya know?
Does anybody have any tips for helping to implement this into the campaign? I want to make sure everyone is playing a character they love, but I don't know how to make it so a legitimate dragon can be part of the party and still know the common language, politics, economics, social situations and combat. The player out of game understands quite a bit, but I'm having a really hard time coming up with a way to let the player play a dragon PC and not handicap themselves in this world.
Any ideas, thoughts, or concepts that I could try to implement for the player would be awesome!
You would have to build the race starting from a Dragonborn and have it end up sort of (but not quite) on par with a lower CR Wyrmling around 5th level (like how Tieflings keep gaining spells until 5th). That’s about the most balanced you’re gonna be able to get. Dragons age slowly, so having it only be a wyrmling lite equivalent from 5th level on could make sense.
Not quite, no. Create it as a regular race starting from the original (pre-Fizban’s) Dragonborn as the base template. Then add a little bit more on when the character hits 3rd and 5th levels (like the Fizban’s Dragonborn do), and those additions would bring the race roughly on par with a CR 2 Wyrmling when the PC has reached 5th level. Basically give them the Dragon creature type and a Bite attack, and then boost them with Darkvision at 3rd level and a Flying speed equal to their walking speed at 5th level and call it at that. That’s about the best you’re gonna get and keep it balanced.
Gotcha. The flavor is that they are a water dragon without wings. So I would probably swap that out with a swim speed at level 2 and the bit at level 3.
The basis of the players character is that the dragon doesn't have wings and they are looking for a wish spell of sorts to grow wings and become a 'True Dragon' the best idea I can come up with is that she has found information that leads her to this party.
I also have an idea to give them a subtle ability to take a humanoid form. This is designed to just make them more socially playable. Thoughts?
Not sure if it would suit what your player wants, but I've been playing a "dragon" in a campaign for a while now, and what I settled on mechanically was to go a Dragonborn since the dragon himself was cursed; he had to adopt the form of a dragonborn while separating himself from the bulk of his raw magical power (his soul) in order to defy the curse that would otherwise have killed him.
I played him using a customised Draconic Bloodline sorcerer so that I could give him access to plenty of draconic spells, which thematically all came from his true nature, so as a black dragon who'd spent too long in the Shadowfell he had a mix of acid and necrotic spells, alter self for the Change Shape like ability, fly for flight and so-on. I used a customised sub-class to add the spell list (to make it more competitive with newer sorcerer sub-classes) and so he would eventually gain access to true polymorph (because it's weird that dragon sorcerers are one of the few casters who can't, considering literally any Bard, Druid, Warlock or Wizard can turn into a dragon if they want to). Anyway, the idea is that once he reaches a high enough level to true polymorph, then he has broken the curse and can become a full adult dragon again, since true polymorph can become permanent (or at least, until dispelled) if you maintain it for the full hour, so he's then fully a dragon. We also discussed the possibility of him revealing his true form temporarily in the event of an imminent total party wipe, i.e- he would transform (as if true polymorphed) but it was purely a DM fiat ability as an "oh crap I've killed the party" option.
I've had a lot of fun playing the "dragon in disguise" character in this way; I think I've done a decent job of playing his intelligence (as I spend way too long learning about D&D lore), and I've had a lot of fun with the fact that he never lies, but also rarely gives a straight answer, e.g- when asked how old he is his response is "older than you", when he introduces himself he says "you may call me Dracarys Noir" rather than actually giving his real name and so-on. It's a lot of fun to be devious and cryptic in that way. On the other hand, to play a dragon "properly" can be a bit one note, in that even the most good and kind of dragons are still immensely prideful and aware of their own superiority (many might view other races as children to be instructed, rather than true equals), while the evil ones definitely won't see humans etc. as anything even approaching their equal; this is another thing that drew me towards the cursed angle as it gave a reason for him to be forced to work with others, rather than him being a dominant personality, and it's exciting to have a big secret and to dance around revealing hints, and then have the dynamic change when it finally is revealed.
A player wouldn't even need to be cursed for it to work; keep in mind that all dragons now (as mentioned in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons) can have the Change Shape feature, so a player can be a dragon transformed into a dragonborn if you want to keep some of the abilities, or any other race for that matter. You might argue that if they're reduced to zero HP they're simply keeping up the disguise?
One alternative "official" option might be if they were happy to play as a Drakewarden Ranger; in this case their character would actually be the dragon, not the Ranger, who is their loyal friend/minion or such? This requires no homebrew, you're playing "as" a dragon, it has a degree of level progression, and in any situation where the dragon could cause problems, the player can focus on the Ranger temporarily? If I wasn't already playing a dragon character I'd be tempted by this myself, as it lets you play as two characters, heh.
Sorry if that's not super helpful in terms of "how do I homebrew a playable dragon", but it's worth going over the more minimal alternatives because homebrewing a race is likely to fall into either the trap of being balanced and too weak to really feel like playing as a dragon, or being too strong to be fair on everyone else. Not saying you can't achieve some kind of balance, but it'd be difficult, and probably harder to DM.
Also apologies for the wall of text; I thought it'd be helpful to describe my experience of playing as a "dragon" character, but I get super carried away talking about my characters. 😂
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
So just for context, the player is trying to play a Ocean dragon. We are trying to play off a sort of traditional Chinese dragon that doesn't have wings. However, they cannot fly. The goal in mind for this player is to either gain access to a Wish spell to wish to become a True dragon (Wings, 4 legs, long neck, etc.). I really like the True Polymorph idea you mentioned, so I'm probably going to implement that as an option for the player as well. As of right now, we are discussing a Small/Medium(mid-game) size for the dragon. Where it is essentially the size of a larger dog breed along with some additional flavor to almost make them act as if they are an ocean storm.
The class for this PC would be the Barbarian-Storm Herald. This is where we are making it so that the player gains storm abilities associated with the ocean. Resistance to Lightning damage, a swim speed instead of a fly speed and an improved dragons breath attack that will scale with their level.
The tricky part that I am trying to work around is implementation of AC and Weapons. I have tried to make it so that the players AC will strictly follow the Barbarians unarmored defense rules, since their CON will probably be their main stat (2nd is strength). I have also done some research into Barding for the dragon so that she can purchase armor later on for an additional boost.
The weapons is a bit of a challenge though. Since the typical dragon isn't using any actual weapons I've decided to make it so that the CLAW/BITE/TAIL attacks start off as a base weapon that the barbarian would start with. And I don't want it to be a thing where the player is REALLY struggling late-game since these attacks wouldn't really benefit magically, and can't be improved by a smith. If I could get some feedback on the following table I made, that would help a ton!
If they don’t want to use weapons they can take the Path of the Beast and their class will take care of that for them. You are making that way too much for a race, it isn’t balanced.
FYI unarmed/natural attacks can be improved by things that increase STR like the various giant belts to easily keep up (and even surpass) enchanted weapon bonuses. All you need is to say they count as magical by 6th level or so.
I agree that what you have now is way too much. Beast Barbarian would solve a lot, and you could cover the other stuff with magic items.
The weapons is a bit of a challenge though. Since the typical dragon isn't using any actual weapons I've decided to make it so that the CLAW/BITE/TAIL attacks start off as a base weapon that the barbarian would start with. And I don't want it to be a thing where the player is REALLY struggling late-game since these attacks wouldn't really benefit magically, and can't be improved by a smith. If I could get some feedback on the following table I made, that would help a ton!
If your goal is to replace weapons then I'd aim to keep them as broadly similar as possible; currently your table scales beyond what weapons can do.
Most races don't get more than a d6 for natural weapons, so I'd start there. You could have the claws come with an option to "two hand" them (if both sets of foreclaws are empty) for d10 damage, this puts it just behind a two-handed weapon since you're trading the slightly higher damage (or reach) for the fact that your hands are not occupied (can freely Grapple etc.). Bite and tail wouldn't require a free hand.
Beyond that I don't think there's any need for scaling; the only scaling you'll need to account for is magic item progression in your campaign. Basically if your other players get +1 weapons, then the dragon player should get an item that gives +1 to unarmed strikes to keep them balanced? You could base it off the eldritch claw tattoo (or just give that, it's a good item with higher level versions).
If they're going Barbarian then that should cover their toughness/unarmored AC needs so that solves your other problems; slap on the Dragonborn breath weapon and you're probably okay? In terms of unarmed strikes in place of weapons this should be reasonably balanced?
I'd still pitch the "reverse Drakewarden" option for consideration though; it starts off as a small dragon, has built in scaling for melee damage, breath weapon, gaining flight etc. and basically lets a player play as two different characters in a single campaign. It's also the zero homebrew option, which saves on DM headaches. 😝
One thing I'd say is if you do decide to grant true polymorph later, keep in mind that on a Barbarian that'll be a lot of a durability to add to an already very durable class, so it might need some added cost (e.g- cannot Rage when you transform back, or can only transform with the DM's say-so).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I genuinely appreciate your feedback. I've rebalanced the attacks based on a different homebrew someone posted on another forum. And i've rebalanced the table to make it not as... intense. Thank you for your input.
Alright, So I was able to rework the attack table a little bit. I decided on the table I posted below. In order to keep it balanced with the extra attack feature. The idea is that the PC will become an adolescent dragon around level 10. And in doing so will have a bit of a 'Jump' to their attacks and such. Additionally, I gave them a feature based off the Eldritch Claw Tattoo item (again, thank you for the information). This feature will make their attacks magical at level 4 when they get their first ABI, as well as giving them the +1, +2, and +3 weapon features as they hit level 9, 12, and 16 respectively. Any thoughts on the balancing of this table? I think I may implement something similar to the "two-handed" feature that was mentioned for the claws at some point. Allowing for a Dual claw attack.
Also, the idea that the player has in mind is that if they are able to access the True Polymorph or Wish spell, then the character would achieve their goal and then retire from the campaign. Or maybe become an NPC. This is also assuming that the campaign goes this long.
Just fore some background information, I'm starting a campaign laced with a lot of race issues towards humans (trying to get my friends to play other races and not just Human variants for the feat). As such, they are not allow to be a human at all, humanoids are allowed however.
The tricky part: I have a player in one of my campaigns that wants to have a Dragon PC. Not a dragonborn, but a legitimate dragon. I understand that dragons as a while in D&D are very tough, as well as somewhat powerful in magic as well. But this isn't like I can just give the player a CR 10 character and expect it to work throughout the whole game, ya know?
Does anybody have any tips for helping to implement this into the campaign? I want to make sure everyone is playing a character they love, but I don't know how to make it so a legitimate dragon can be part of the party and still know the common language, politics, economics, social situations and combat. The player out of game understands quite a bit, but I'm having a really hard time coming up with a way to let the player play a dragon PC and not handicap themselves in this world.
Any ideas, thoughts, or concepts that I could try to implement for the player would be awesome!
There's a short story in the 2nd Realms of the Dragon novel...a human barbarian from the Icewind area has lived her whole life so far not knowing she's a dragon. The story takes place as she's just figuring it out.
Just roll a human (or whatever) and have the event occur at say level 15. Give a dragon-themed perk at level 5 (perhaps telepathy with other dragons) and another at 11 (like 22 str or something)...maybe advantage on death saves at lvl 1. Perhaps give the character something every couple levels...there's a lot of options. You have time to think about it (other than if you're giving something at level 1 - maybe just frequent dreams about flying). You don't really need to answer 'why' unless you want to - or let the player work on it.
Just fore some background information, I'm starting a campaign laced with a lot of race issues towards humans (trying to get my friends to play other races and not just Human variants for the feat). As such, they are not allow to be a human at all, humanoids are allowed however.
The tricky part: I have a player in one of my campaigns that wants to have a Dragon PC. Not a dragonborn, but a legitimate dragon. I understand that dragons as a while in D&D are very tough, as well as somewhat powerful in magic as well. But this isn't like I can just give the player a CR 10 character and expect it to work throughout the whole game, ya know?
Does anybody have any tips for helping to implement this into the campaign? I want to make sure everyone is playing a character they love, but I don't know how to make it so a legitimate dragon can be part of the party and still know the common language, politics, economics, social situations and combat. The player out of game understands quite a bit, but I'm having a really hard time coming up with a way to let the player play a dragon PC and not handicap themselves in this world.
Any ideas, thoughts, or concepts that I could try to implement for the player would be awesome!
You would have to build the race starting from a Dragonborn and have it end up sort of (but not quite) on par with a lower CR Wyrmling around 5th level (like how Tieflings keep gaining spells until 5th). That’s about the most balanced you’re gonna be able to get. Dragons age slowly, so having it only be a wyrmling lite equivalent from 5th level on could make sense.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
So you're suggesting that I set the race to be on par with a wyrmling by 5th level. Then just have it be a class progression going forward?
Not quite, no. Create it as a regular race starting from the original (pre-Fizban’s) Dragonborn as the base template. Then add a little bit more on when the character hits 3rd and 5th levels (like the Fizban’s Dragonborn do), and those additions would bring the race roughly on par with a CR 2 Wyrmling when the PC has reached 5th level. Basically give them the Dragon creature type and a Bite attack, and then boost them with Darkvision at 3rd level and a Flying speed equal to their walking speed at 5th level and call it at that. That’s about the best you’re gonna get and keep it balanced.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Gotcha. The flavor is that they are a water dragon without wings. So I would probably swap that out with a swim speed at level 2 and the bit at level 3.
The basis of the players character is that the dragon doesn't have wings and they are looking for a wish spell of sorts to grow wings and become a 'True Dragon' the best idea I can come up with is that she has found information that leads her to this party.
I also have an idea to give them a subtle ability to take a humanoid form. This is designed to just make them more socially playable. Thoughts?
Not sure if it would suit what your player wants, but I've been playing a "dragon" in a campaign for a while now, and what I settled on mechanically was to go a Dragonborn since the dragon himself was cursed; he had to adopt the form of a dragonborn while separating himself from the bulk of his raw magical power (his soul) in order to defy the curse that would otherwise have killed him.
I played him using a customised Draconic Bloodline sorcerer so that I could give him access to plenty of draconic spells, which thematically all came from his true nature, so as a black dragon who'd spent too long in the Shadowfell he had a mix of acid and necrotic spells, alter self for the Change Shape like ability, fly for flight and so-on. I used a customised sub-class to add the spell list (to make it more competitive with newer sorcerer sub-classes) and so he would eventually gain access to true polymorph (because it's weird that dragon sorcerers are one of the few casters who can't, considering literally any Bard, Druid, Warlock or Wizard can turn into a dragon if they want to). Anyway, the idea is that once he reaches a high enough level to true polymorph, then he has broken the curse and can become a full adult dragon again, since true polymorph can become permanent (or at least, until dispelled) if you maintain it for the full hour, so he's then fully a dragon. We also discussed the possibility of him revealing his true form temporarily in the event of an imminent total party wipe, i.e- he would transform (as if true polymorphed) but it was purely a DM fiat ability as an "oh crap I've killed the party" option.
I've had a lot of fun playing the "dragon in disguise" character in this way; I think I've done a decent job of playing his intelligence (as I spend way too long learning about D&D lore), and I've had a lot of fun with the fact that he never lies, but also rarely gives a straight answer, e.g- when asked how old he is his response is "older than you", when he introduces himself he says "you may call me Dracarys Noir" rather than actually giving his real name and so-on. It's a lot of fun to be devious and cryptic in that way. On the other hand, to play a dragon "properly" can be a bit one note, in that even the most good and kind of dragons are still immensely prideful and aware of their own superiority (many might view other races as children to be instructed, rather than true equals), while the evil ones definitely won't see humans etc. as anything even approaching their equal; this is another thing that drew me towards the cursed angle as it gave a reason for him to be forced to work with others, rather than him being a dominant personality, and it's exciting to have a big secret and to dance around revealing hints, and then have the dynamic change when it finally is revealed.
A player wouldn't even need to be cursed for it to work; keep in mind that all dragons now (as mentioned in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons) can have the Change Shape feature, so a player can be a dragon transformed into a dragonborn if you want to keep some of the abilities, or any other race for that matter. You might argue that if they're reduced to zero HP they're simply keeping up the disguise?
One alternative "official" option might be if they were happy to play as a Drakewarden Ranger; in this case their character would actually be the dragon, not the Ranger, who is their loyal friend/minion or such? This requires no homebrew, you're playing "as" a dragon, it has a degree of level progression, and in any situation where the dragon could cause problems, the player can focus on the Ranger temporarily? If I wasn't already playing a dragon character I'd be tempted by this myself, as it lets you play as two characters, heh.
Sorry if that's not super helpful in terms of "how do I homebrew a playable dragon", but it's worth going over the more minimal alternatives because homebrewing a race is likely to fall into either the trap of being balanced and too weak to really feel like playing as a dragon, or being too strong to be fair on everyone else. Not saying you can't achieve some kind of balance, but it'd be difficult, and probably harder to DM.
Also apologies for the wall of text; I thought it'd be helpful to describe my experience of playing as a "dragon" character, but I get super carried away talking about my characters. 😂
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
So just for context, the player is trying to play a Ocean dragon. We are trying to play off a sort of traditional Chinese dragon that doesn't have wings. However, they cannot fly. The goal in mind for this player is to either gain access to a Wish spell to wish to become a True dragon (Wings, 4 legs, long neck, etc.). I really like the True Polymorph idea you mentioned, so I'm probably going to implement that as an option for the player as well. As of right now, we are discussing a Small/Medium(mid-game) size for the dragon. Where it is essentially the size of a larger dog breed along with some additional flavor to almost make them act as if they are an ocean storm.
The class for this PC would be the Barbarian-Storm Herald. This is where we are making it so that the player gains storm abilities associated with the ocean. Resistance to Lightning damage, a swim speed instead of a fly speed and an improved dragons breath attack that will scale with their level.
The tricky part that I am trying to work around is implementation of AC and Weapons. I have tried to make it so that the players AC will strictly follow the Barbarians unarmored defense rules, since their CON will probably be their main stat (2nd is strength). I have also done some research into Barding for the dragon so that she can purchase armor later on for an additional boost.
The weapons is a bit of a challenge though. Since the typical dragon isn't using any actual weapons I've decided to make it so that the CLAW/BITE/TAIL attacks start off as a base weapon that the barbarian would start with. And I don't want it to be a thing where the player is REALLY struggling late-game since these attacks wouldn't really benefit magically, and can't be improved by a smith. If I could get some feedback on the following table I made, that would help a ton!
If they don’t want to use weapons they can take the Path of the Beast and their class will take care of that for them. You are making that way too much for a race, it isn’t balanced.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
FYI unarmed/natural attacks can be improved by things that increase STR like the various giant belts to easily keep up (and even surpass) enchanted weapon bonuses. All you need is to say they count as magical by 6th level or so.
I agree that what you have now is way too much. Beast Barbarian would solve a lot, and you could cover the other stuff with magic items.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
If your goal is to replace weapons then I'd aim to keep them as broadly similar as possible; currently your table scales beyond what weapons can do.
Most races don't get more than a d6 for natural weapons, so I'd start there. You could have the claws come with an option to "two hand" them (if both sets of foreclaws are empty) for d10 damage, this puts it just behind a two-handed weapon since you're trading the slightly higher damage (or reach) for the fact that your hands are not occupied (can freely Grapple etc.). Bite and tail wouldn't require a free hand.
Beyond that I don't think there's any need for scaling; the only scaling you'll need to account for is magic item progression in your campaign. Basically if your other players get +1 weapons, then the dragon player should get an item that gives +1 to unarmed strikes to keep them balanced? You could base it off the eldritch claw tattoo (or just give that, it's a good item with higher level versions).
If they're going Barbarian then that should cover their toughness/unarmored AC needs so that solves your other problems; slap on the Dragonborn breath weapon and you're probably okay? In terms of unarmed strikes in place of weapons this should be reasonably balanced?
I'd still pitch the "reverse Drakewarden" option for consideration though; it starts off as a small dragon, has built in scaling for melee damage, breath weapon, gaining flight etc. and basically lets a player play as two different characters in a single campaign. It's also the zero homebrew option, which saves on DM headaches. 😝
One thing I'd say is if you do decide to grant true polymorph later, keep in mind that on a Barbarian that'll be a lot of a durability to add to an already very durable class, so it might need some added cost (e.g- cannot Rage when you transform back, or can only transform with the DM's say-so).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I genuinely appreciate your feedback. I've rebalanced the attacks based on a different homebrew someone posted on another forum. And i've rebalanced the table to make it not as... intense. Thank you for your input.
Alright, So I was able to rework the attack table a little bit. I decided on the table I posted below. In order to keep it balanced with the extra attack feature. The idea is that the PC will become an adolescent dragon around level 10. And in doing so will have a bit of a 'Jump' to their attacks and such. Additionally, I gave them a feature based off the Eldritch Claw Tattoo item (again, thank you for the information). This feature will make their attacks magical at level 4 when they get their first ABI, as well as giving them the +1, +2, and +3 weapon features as they hit level 9, 12, and 16 respectively. Any thoughts on the balancing of this table? I think I may implement something similar to the "two-handed" feature that was mentioned for the claws at some point. Allowing for a Dual claw attack.
Also, the idea that the player has in mind is that if they are able to access the True Polymorph or Wish spell, then the character would achieve their goal and then retire from the campaign. Or maybe become an NPC. This is also assuming that the campaign goes this long.
There's a short story in the 2nd Realms of the Dragon novel...a human barbarian from the Icewind area has lived her whole life so far not knowing she's a dragon. The story takes place as she's just figuring it out.
Just roll a human (or whatever) and have the event occur at say level 15. Give a dragon-themed perk at level 5 (perhaps telepathy with other dragons) and another at 11 (like 22 str or something)...maybe advantage on death saves at lvl 1. Perhaps give the character something every couple levels...there's a lot of options. You have time to think about it (other than if you're giving something at level 1 - maybe just frequent dreams about flying). You don't really need to answer 'why' unless you want to - or let the player work on it.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks