The Dual Wielder Feat (2024 PHB p203) says "you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property."
Why are ranged weapons excluded?
I think it's an error because there are ranged weapons that reference Dual Wielding.
Because every ranged weapon except a hand crossbow requires 2 hands, which means you already have your hands full and really couldn’t be doing this. So basically they’re saying you can’t use a hand crossbow with it. And maybe cutting off some thri-kreen shenanigans.
If you’re thinking of things like throwing a dagger or javelin or whatever, that’s not a ranged weapon, it’s a melee weapon with the thrown property.
Because every ranged weapon except a hand crossbow requires 2 hands
That's not correct. The following are all ranged weapons that are not two-handed:
Dart Sling Blowgun Hand Crossbow Pistol
And you CAN use a hand crossbow with it as the Crossbow Expert Feat indicates, which, as Lia_Black pointed out, specifically references "Dual Wielding" for crossbows with the "Light" property (Note: the Light Crossbow confusingly does NOT have the "Light" property, another oversight?).
So are all these excluded from the Dual Wielder Feat even though some of them specifically reference the Dual Wielder Feat?? Seems like an error or oversight.
Because every ranged weapon except a hand crossbow requires 2 hands
That's not correct. The following are all ranged weapons that are not two-handed:
Dart Sling Blowgun Hand Crossbow Pistol
And you CAN use a hand crossbow with it as the Crossbow Expert Feat indicates, which, as Lia_Black pointed out, specifically references "Dual Wielding" for crossbows with the "Light" property (Note: the Light Crossbow confusingly does NOT have the "Light" property, another oversight?).
So are all these excluded from the Dual Wielder Feat even though some of them specifically reference the Dual Wielder Feat?? Seems like an error or oversight.
Because hand crossbows still require loading. Slings still require loading.
The dual wielding does not help speed up or remove the need for ammunition loading.
Because hand crossbows still require loading. Slings still require loading. The dual wielding does not help speed up or remove the need for ammunition loading.
So to Dual Wield crossbows, you need the Crossbow Expert Feat, not the Dual Wielding Feat? And to Dual Wield crossbows or daggers, you need 2 different Feats? Seems silly and unnecessarily complicated and bifurcated.
And you CAN'T dual wield pistols or darts but you CAN dual wield crossbows or daggers? Seems silly and random.
Because hand crossbows still require loading. Slings still require loading. The dual wielding does not help speed up or remove the need for ammunition loading.
So to Dual Wield crossbows, you need the Crossbow Expert Feat, not the Dual Wielding Feat? And to Dual Wield crossbows or daggers, you need 2 different Feats? Seems silly and unnecessarily complicated and bifurcated.
And you CAN'T dual wield pistols or darts but you CAN dual wield crossbows or daggers? Seems silly and random.
I mean… you’re basically saying you need two feats to do X and complaining, when there’s 1 feat that accomplishes exactly what you want for your one scenario.
crossbow expert allows you to be an expert with the hand crossbows.
It would take 2 feats to dual wield shields as weapon to be a “shield hero” dual wield and tavern brawler.
some things take multiple feats. Some take 1 feat. Some just a fighting style or class ability. That’s just the way it is.
for everything else- you COULD just use a wish spell, but make sure you’re very specific and through I. Your wording.
So to Dual Wield crossbows, you need the Crossbow Expert Feat, not the Dual Wielding Feat?
You can't dual wield light or heavy crossbows at all, because they're two handed, and a hand crossbow is already tagged as light, so all you need is the ability to ignore the Ammunition property.
It would make more sense to say that you cannot reload without a free hand, but I guess they found that overly finicky. In any case, it should probably be possible to dual wield darts and pistols (which is currently entirely impossible -- neither dual wielder nor crossbow expert will permit you to do it); sling and blowgun have some serious SoD problems. I would probably just tag them as light.
Because hand crossbows still require loading. Slings still require loading. The dual wielding does not help speed up or remove the need for ammunition loading.
So to Dual Wield crossbows, you need the Crossbow Expert Feat, not the Dual Wielding Feat? And to Dual Wield crossbows or daggers, you need 2 different Feats? Seems silly and unnecessarily complicated and bifurcated.
And you CAN'T dual wield pistols or darts but you CAN dual wield crossbows or daggers? Seems silly and random.
To develop focused skills using weapons that work inherently differently, you need two feats. Why do I need Polearm Master to hit someone with the shaft of the polearm? Because that's inherently different than aiming and firing two ranged weapons effectively, one in your off hand, potentially at different targets.
By contrast, having two loaded crossbows and switching which one you are firing does not require a feat. If you have multiple attacks (such as due to the Extra Attack feature), you can either draw/pick up a new, preloaded crossbow or use a preloaded crossbow in another hand as your second attack without a feat.
If you are using two weapons at range, you are maintaining your aim using two ranged weapons at different angles. You cannot use sights on at least one of the attacks because there is only room for one crossbow in front of your face (unless you're an Ettin).
a hand crossbow is already tagged as light, so all you need is the ability to ignore the Ammunition property.
Ah, so if the Light property already gives you 2 attacks using 2 different Light weapons, the Dual Wielding Feat is really only there so that you can use a non-Light one-handed weapon for your second Bonus Action attack?
So with the Dual Wielding Feat, you can attack with a short sword and as a Bonus Action attack with a Warhammer? -or- Throw a Handaxe (Light) and then (using Dual Wielding) shoot a Pistol as a Bonus Action now that your other hand is empty?
Ah, so if the Light property already gives you 2 attacks using 2 different Light weapons, the Dual Wielding Feat is really only there so that you can use a non-Light one-handed weapon for your second Bonus Action attack?
That appears to be the intent, though (queue discussion of how the dual wielder feat interacts with Nick mastery).
Ok, obviously you don't need to read all the threads, but there are already many explaining how Nick works (in fact, the ones below aren't all of them):
The Dual Wielder Feat (2024 PHB p203) says "you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property."
Why are ranged weapons excluded?
I think it's an error because there are ranged weapons that reference Dual Wielding.
Because every ranged weapon except a hand crossbow requires 2 hands, which means you already have your hands full and really couldn’t be doing this. So basically they’re saying you can’t use a hand crossbow with it. And maybe cutting off some thri-kreen shenanigans.
If you’re thinking of things like throwing a dagger or javelin or whatever, that’s not a ranged weapon, it’s a melee weapon with the thrown property.
Crossbow Expert has "Two Weapon Fighting" built in
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
That's not correct. The following are all ranged weapons that are not two-handed:
Dart
Sling
Blowgun
Hand Crossbow
Pistol
And you CAN use a hand crossbow with it as the Crossbow Expert Feat indicates, which, as Lia_Black pointed out, specifically references "Dual Wielding" for crossbows with the "Light" property (Note: the Light Crossbow confusingly does NOT have the "Light" property, another oversight?).
So are all these excluded from the Dual Wielder Feat even though some of them specifically reference the Dual Wielder Feat?? Seems like an error or oversight.
Because hand crossbows still require loading. Slings still require loading.
The dual wielding does not help speed up or remove the need for ammunition loading.
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Crossbow expert specifically ignores the effects of loading….
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So to Dual Wield crossbows, you need the Crossbow Expert Feat, not the Dual Wielding Feat?
And to Dual Wield crossbows or daggers, you need 2 different Feats?
Seems silly and unnecessarily complicated and bifurcated.
And you CAN'T dual wield pistols or darts but you CAN dual wield crossbows or daggers?
Seems silly and random.
I mean… you’re basically saying you need two feats to do X and complaining, when there’s 1 feat that accomplishes exactly what you want for your one scenario.
crossbow expert allows you to be an expert with the hand crossbows.
It would take 2 feats to dual wield shields as weapon to be a “shield hero” dual wield and tavern brawler.
some things take multiple feats. Some take 1 feat. Some just a fighting style or class ability. That’s just the way it is.
for everything else- you COULD just use a wish spell, but make sure you’re very specific and through I. Your wording.
Blank
You can't dual wield light or heavy crossbows at all, because they're two handed, and a hand crossbow is already tagged as light, so all you need is the ability to ignore the Ammunition property.
It would make more sense to say that you cannot reload without a free hand, but I guess they found that overly finicky. In any case, it should probably be possible to dual wield darts and pistols (which is currently entirely impossible -- neither dual wielder nor crossbow expert will permit you to do it); sling and blowgun have some serious SoD problems. I would probably just tag them as light.
To develop focused skills using weapons that work inherently differently, you need two feats. Why do I need Polearm Master to hit someone with the shaft of the polearm? Because that's inherently different than aiming and firing two ranged weapons effectively, one in your off hand, potentially at different targets.
By contrast, having two loaded crossbows and switching which one you are firing does not require a feat. If you have multiple attacks (such as due to the Extra Attack feature), you can either draw/pick up a new, preloaded crossbow or use a preloaded crossbow in another hand as your second attack without a feat.
If you are using two weapons at range, you are maintaining your aim using two ranged weapons at different angles. You cannot use sights on at least one of the attacks because there is only room for one crossbow in front of your face (unless you're an Ettin).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Ah, so if the Light property already gives you 2 attacks using 2 different Light weapons, the Dual Wielding Feat is really only there so that you can use a non-Light one-handed weapon for your second Bonus Action attack?
So with the Dual Wielding Feat, you can attack with a short sword and as a Bonus Action attack with a Warhammer?
-or-
Throw a Handaxe (Light) and then (using Dual Wielding) shoot a Pistol as a Bonus Action now that your other hand is empty?
That appears to be the intent, though (queue discussion of how the dual wielder feat interacts with Nick mastery).
Mmm. I realized @HighTechG33k has the same doubts here and in the thread Can a 3rd Level Rogue Soulknife get 3 ranged attacks using Light Weapons and Nick Mastery?
Ok, obviously you don't need to read all the threads, but there are already many explaining how Nick works (in fact, the ones below aren't all of them):