My Warlock's second highest stat is intelligence. And that was intentional from the get go.
Quick background: I hadn't regularly played D&D since the 90s. Played 2e, then a lot of white wolf games, then, well... Kids and a career. But my kids started playing 5 years ago, so I agreed to DM. I picked up the starter, then introduced then to 2e. But their friends were playing 5, so I went to 5, and recently started playing again. So, I've always considered arcane casters (or arcane type, since Warlocks are Pact Magic users) to be intelligent by default. The skills checks? Often INT. Charisma was the source of the pact and class, Int the source of the character's additional flavor - the sizzle to get steak.
Since I did take a 20 year layoff from playing, I didn't even know charisma characters were a thing. Warlocks introduce was utility and diversity to the casting classes. Casters that don't need to hide behind a tank? Cool! Not many spell slots, but unlimited Eldritch Blast with... Stuff? Ok, I don't even know what that is, but sign me up! And we don't have any other casters? Ok, sign me up, I'll go be the primary caster and not be squishy. So, we need intelligence. I'll get arcana, religion, and a few other things. The party's needs did partially flavor the character, and it's usually been his intellect, and not any particular combat ability (I have two kills in almost 1.5 years of playing) that has helped the most. That's what I like about 5e, the fact that you can build out or diversify most classes as your needs grow and change, and Warlocks do it better than anyone. And role playing opportunities, since XP can be substituted out for goal based advancement, means that out of combat role-playing opportunities matter. Warlocks, with great RP flavor, provide some of the most.
My point is that you can have an Int based Warlock without Int being your primary stat, assuming that you have the other characters to back it up. We've got a paladin and 2 barbarians who kill like no one's business. I use repelling blast to move the bad guys in to their range while using mind and board control to stay out of range. That's a function of intellect and strategy. Out of combat, using arcana and other knowledge to start up conversations with the local town priest or wizard or whoever needs help is often the start of an adventure.
In my new experience (who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks??), You can play an Int based Warlock, with the right team and a little thought, and still keep charisma as your primary stat.
What gets me is more the Charisma Caster ********, where you just keep adding one to three levels of every single freaking Charisma caster in the game because "why not, it's better than building a character that makes sense!"
It sounds to me like your issue might lie more with multi-classing rules than warlocks, and making them an INT class wouldn't fix this. You'd just have Wizificerlocks instead.
As for INT being terrible, I have to agree with Crazy that my experience has been very different. My groups have always valued INT and that hasn't changed since we switched to 5e. The INT skill suite is used more than any other at my table. I think there are only two INT-based classes because wizard is basically the personification of the stat and it's difficult to carve out any additional design space there.
No, the problem is there are too many charisma based classes in general.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It's been discussed elsewhere, but I would support a move to Wisdom, Intelligence or even Constitution for Sorcerer. I know Con seems odd, but if it's bloodline that's a thing, and your internal power is likely to cause a minor nuclear explosion or something, you might want to have a lot of Con.
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May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
It's been discussed elsewhere, but I would support a move to Wisdom, Intelligence or even Constitution for Sorcerer. I know Con seems odd, but if it's bloodline that's a thing, and your internal power is likely to cause a minor nuclear explosion or something, you might want to have a lot of Con.
I could do int or even con, but wisdom is a bridge too far for me. Generally speaking, I treat wis as a dump stat on my warlocks because I don't feel like making deals with the kind of beings that are warlock patrons is a terribly wise thing to do.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. There's pushback against warlocks being Intelligence-based because in 5e Intelligence is a bad stat and people don't want to take it. Why would someone volunteer to run an Intelligence-based class when they could be Charisma, instead? Plenty of folks out there hear of the idea that warlocks could have, and should have been, Intelligence-based and go "But my bardsorpadlock! How will I take levels in half the classes in the game in order to make all spellcasting rolls, attack rolls, saving throws, and ability checks off of Charisma alone while dealing triple Smite Expertise damage?!"
Warlocks can be whatever the player wants them to be, more than any other class. But the PHB lists them as researchers and knowledge-seekers driven by a hunger for hidden lore and secret power. They gain that lore and power by striking a bargain with an otherworldly Power. Silly people read that and say "See? Bargaining! That's Persuasion! Persuasin is Charisma! Leave my bardsorpadlock alone!"
No. That's negotiation. Negotiation is a matter of Intelligence as much as Charisma. Force of personality means nothing to creatures beyond humanity who don't really care how sparkly your teeth are or how genuine your smile is. They care solely for whether you have the capability to deliver on your end of the deal; coming up with a 'Your End' you can hack and proving you can hack it is a function of being smart enough to know what you can and can't do and how to go about it.
Now sure. Some folks just wake up one day with a pact, or have that pact thrust upon them through circumstances outside their control. At which point I would contend that it is still your intelligence - your reasoning, your problem-solving abilities, your powers and prowess of deduction - that allow you to figure out magical abilities you now suddenly have without any clue why or how they work.
Warlocks. They should have been an Intelligence class. And if you don't like that idea, ask yourself why Intelligence sucks so much you never want to take it on any of your characters.
BASED. Fingers crossed the 1D&D team has the courage to give Warlock it's correct Primary Ability and there's enough of a silent majority to vindicate such a decision. They've already implied they will since the Cultist background from the origins pdf gave more Int than Cha, plus Eldritch Blast's absence from any iteration of the three spell lists basically confirms that EB will become a class feature which is something even the CHAve men have been wanting.
Warlocks should go to Int. But I highly doubt WotC will. In DnD Next they already tried it, and there were so many cries that they put Char back as in 3.5 I just hope they at least give the option to choose in some way.
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My Warlock's second highest stat is intelligence. And that was intentional from the get go.
Quick background: I hadn't regularly played D&D since the 90s. Played 2e, then a lot of white wolf games, then, well... Kids and a career. But my kids started playing 5 years ago, so I agreed to DM. I picked up the starter, then introduced then to 2e. But their friends were playing 5, so I went to 5, and recently started playing again. So, I've always considered arcane casters (or arcane type, since Warlocks are Pact Magic users) to be intelligent by default. The skills checks? Often INT. Charisma was the source of the pact and class, Int the source of the character's additional flavor - the sizzle to get steak.
Since I did take a 20 year layoff from playing, I didn't even know charisma characters were a thing. Warlocks introduce was utility and diversity to the casting classes. Casters that don't need to hide behind a tank? Cool! Not many spell slots, but unlimited Eldritch Blast with... Stuff? Ok, I don't even know what that is, but sign me up! And we don't have any other casters? Ok, sign me up, I'll go be the primary caster and not be squishy. So, we need intelligence. I'll get arcana, religion, and a few other things. The party's needs did partially flavor the character, and it's usually been his intellect, and not any particular combat ability (I have two kills in almost 1.5 years of playing) that has helped the most. That's what I like about 5e, the fact that you can build out or diversify most classes as your needs grow and change, and Warlocks do it better than anyone. And role playing opportunities, since XP can be substituted out for goal based advancement, means that out of combat role-playing opportunities matter. Warlocks, with great RP flavor, provide some of the most.
My point is that you can have an Int based Warlock without Int being your primary stat, assuming that you have the other characters to back it up. We've got a paladin and 2 barbarians who kill like no one's business. I use repelling blast to move the bad guys in to their range while using mind and board control to stay out of range. That's a function of intellect and strategy. Out of combat, using arcana and other knowledge to start up conversations with the local town priest or wizard or whoever needs help is often the start of an adventure.
In my new experience (who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks??), You can play an Int based Warlock, with the right team and a little thought, and still keep charisma as your primary stat.
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
It sounds to me like your issue might lie more with multi-classing rules than warlocks, and making them an INT class wouldn't fix this. You'd just have Wizificerlocks instead.
As for INT being terrible, I have to agree with Crazy that my experience has been very different. My groups have always valued INT and that hasn't changed since we switched to 5e. The INT skill suite is used more than any other at my table. I think there are only two INT-based classes because wizard is basically the personification of the stat and it's difficult to carve out any additional design space there.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
No, the problem is there are too many charisma based classes in general.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Agreed
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Agree on the too many charisma classes.
It's been discussed elsewhere, but I would support a move to Wisdom, Intelligence or even Constitution for Sorcerer. I know Con seems odd, but if it's bloodline that's a thing, and your internal power is likely to cause a minor nuclear explosion or something, you might want to have a lot of Con.
May the gentle moonlinght guide you to greater wisdom
I could do int or even con, but wisdom is a bridge too far for me. Generally speaking, I treat wis as a dump stat on my warlocks because I don't feel like making deals with the kind of beings that are warlock patrons is a terribly wise thing to do.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
BASED. Fingers crossed the 1D&D team has the courage to give Warlock it's correct Primary Ability and there's enough of a silent majority to vindicate such a decision. They've already implied they will since the Cultist background from the origins pdf gave more Int than Cha, plus Eldritch Blast's absence from any iteration of the three spell lists basically confirms that EB will become a class feature which is something even the CHAve men have been wanting.
Warlocks should go to Int. But I highly doubt WotC will. In DnD Next they already tried it, and there were so many cries that they put Char back as in 3.5
I just hope they at least give the option to choose in some way.