Note that these changes are not limited to DDB’s presentation of Wayfinders: the Wayfinders on the DMsGuild has also been updated, which—as been said above—was always the plan, and was spelled out there, too. So, from one perspective, this is entirely consistant with how DDB has handled errata and updates before. As another example, when most of the Elemental Evil Companion’s spells were published in Xanathar’s, DDB updated the spells from EEC to conform to their specs in Xanathar’s.
Communication can be tricky and complicated. I see that in my own line of work—-which is completely unrelated to that of DDB’s. Announcements can be made in a variety of ways over a variety of media (“shouting from the rooftops”), and some people still don’t know about it. Sometimes that’s because people have not really read—or at least read and remembered—the words in front of them. Sometimes it’s because people don’t make use of the media forms that have been used for the communication.
Those of us who frequent these forums and/or the enworld forum threads of Eberron offerings knew this was going to happen, and that these intentions had been stated by WOTC from the very beginning. It’s easy for us to be dismissive of those who don’t, forgetting that not everyone uses the same communication methods we do. While I have limited patience with the folks who had the words in front of them and just didn’t read/remember them (both in my own line of work and here), I do understand the frustration of those who don’t use the same communication methods and thus haven’t seen this discussed as much leading up to this. Someone mentioned that initially on the marketplace, the “living document” language wasn’t there for Wayfinders, but was added not long before it was up. If this was the case (I have a vague memory that it was—although too vague to be reliable), I can understand the frustration of those who purchased before that wording was updated. And I can understand the frustration of those who purchased, read the wording, but don’t follow forums and thus didn’t know the updating would happen now and what it would entail.
Are there more avenues DDB could have used to communicate the changes? Very possibly. Would that have meant more people understood what was going to happen? Again, very possibly. Would that have guaranteed that everyone would have known about it and understood it? No, because some folks don’t read the contents of the media/communication forms they do receive.
The difference is that no one paid for the DM guild version. No one paid specifically to use that content in another tool. It isn't relevant.
And no, this was not "always the plan". A vague mention of "updates" after the fact is in no way reasonably related to "all this content will be removed when the next book drops". No one agreed to pay for temporary content.
Official communication from Mike Mearls and the author was that this content was official, and when a new Eberron book released, it would complement rather than replace this material.
The difference is that no one paid for the DM guild version. No one paid specifically to use that content in another tool. It isn't relevant.
And no, this was not "always the plan". A vague mention of "updates" after the fact is in no way reasonably related to "all this content will be removed when the next book drops". No one agreed to pay for temporary content.
Official communication from Mike Mearls and the author was that this content was official, and when a new Eberron book released, it would complement rather than replace this material.
People did pay for the DMsGuild version; it was not a freebee, it was paid content. And it was identified there as playtest content from the beginning; over on enworld there was a long discussion about it when Wayfinders first dropped, with some folks complaining about paying for playtest.
Can you point me to where Mearls said it was it was official? The only person who has been able to provide me with a quote close to that is a comment that it was official for Ebberon and included information that it was playtest and that material in Wayfinders would be updated to reflect the changes they made after playtest.
I do remember Mearls saying in a video that any hardcover would be complimentary to Wayfinders. He also said there would be some duplication between the two books. I'm pretty confident that in that same video he talked about Wayfinders mechanics being playtest, but I'd have to track it down again and watch it to be absolutely certain about that.
I realize that for folks who only have access to Wayfinders here, the material may have temporarily disappeared. That's unfortunate, and it's entirely possible that DDB should have planned for this transition better. I definitely understand folks being upset about that.
I'm confident access to the final versions of the subclasses, races, etc. will be restored soon, but I realized that doesn't address folks' need or want to access those things now.
I know that the changes to the mechanics were in some cases (e.g. Warforged) far more extreme than typical for the UA to final published version, and that has added to the frustration with the transition.
I'm sorry you were disappointed. I'm sorry that the the wording about Wayfinder's being updated didn't give you sufficient information about the kinds of changes that could happen. I'm sorry you don't have access to the content you want.
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
I did not realise that WGtE would be erased, I thought it would still be accessible in some fashion. My bad for buying without reading the small print (or indeed, large print).
I personally have lost access to the Artificer, and the Dragonmarked Race variants. So unless something went wrong I have clearly had content removed that I paid for.
Also I would like to comment that claiming Wayfinders Guide to Eberron was clearly playtest material, subject to change, and subject to stuff being completely removed for a new version, is disingenuous. Wayfinders Guide to Eberron was not sold to me as playtest material or a living document. It was sold as a full complete book. Only after purchasing it did I find mention of playtest material within the book, and only after I purchased it was the store page updated to reflect its playtest nature.
I don't particularly care for accessing the old versions because the old warforged was busted as hell balance-wise, but could there perhaps be an option added in the future to toggle the WGtE/UA versions of the Eberron races? I get the logic that this is technically an update and the material going forward is going to assume the new versions as the 'final' and 'official' versions, but obviously a lot of people want the WGtE/UA version as an option. Perhaps that could be a feature added down the line?
In my eyes, the only thing that has to be done to make it right is to restore access to the options from WGtE.
Homebrewing content that I have already paid for seems unfair, so don't tell me to do that, I've heard it enough over the last couple of days.
But that just isn't how it works. DDB is disallowed from doing that without WotC's permission (as it is WotC's IP).
You paid for automatically updating content. That content was updated. You have to homebrew the old content back in if you want to use it. That is how it has always worked.
In my eyes, the only thing that has to be done to make it right is to restore access to the options from WGtE.
Homebrewing content that I have already paid for seems unfair, so don't tell me to do that, I've heard it enough over the last couple of days.
But that just isn't how it works. DDB is disallowed from doing that without WotC's permission (as it is WotC's IP).
You paid for automatically updating content. That content was updated. You have to homebrew the old content back in if you want to use it. That is how it has always worked.
That's not "how it has always worked", this is the first time they've tried to pull this.
In my eyes, the only thing that has to be done to make it right is to restore access to the options from WGtE.
Homebrewing content that I have already paid for seems unfair, so don't tell me to do that, I've heard it enough over the last couple of days.
But that just isn't how it works. DDB is disallowed from doing that without WotC's permission (as it is WotC's IP).
You paid for automatically updating content. That content was updated. You have to homebrew the old content back in if you want to use it. That is how it has always worked.
That's not "how it has always worked", this is the first time they've tried to pull this.
Actually, something similar happened way back when XGtE came out and updated a bunch of stuff from EEPC. But also I was referring to anytime playtest has had a new version (yes they were playtest, I know we paid for them and that sucks, but doesn't make them not playtest).
In my eyes, the only thing that has to be done to make it right is to restore access to the options from WGtE.
Homebrewing content that I have already paid for seems unfair, so don't tell me to do that, I've heard it enough over the last couple of days.
But that just isn't how it works. DDB is disallowed from doing that without WotC's permission (as it is WotC's IP).
You paid for automatically updating content. That content was updated. You have to homebrew the old content back in if you want to use it. That is how it has always worked.
That's not "how it has always worked", this is the first time they've tried to pull this.
Actually, something similar happened way back when XGtE came out and updated a bunch of stuff from EEPC. But also I was referring to anytime playtest has had a new version (yes they were playtest, I know we paid for them and that sucks, but doesn't make them not playtest).
Exactly that ^^^ . And I think that's really the crux of this issue. We paid for the content which was in that sourcebook, we no longer have access to that.
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
I did not realise that WGtE would be erased, I thought it would still be accessible in some fashion. My bad for buying without reading the small print (or indeed, large print).
I personally have lost access to the Artificer, and the Dragonmarked Race variants. So unless something went wrong I have clearly had content removed that I paid for.
Also I would like to comment that claiming Wayfinders Guide to Eberron was clearly playtest material, subject to change, and subject to stuff being completely removed for a new version, is disingenuous. Wayfinders Guide to Eberron was not sold to me as playtest material or a living document. It was sold as a full complete book. Only after purchasing it did I find mention of playtest material within the book, and only after I purchased it was the store page updated to reflect its playtest nature.
I don't particularly care for accessing the old versions because the old warforged was busted as hell balance-wise, but could there perhaps be an option added in the future to toggle the WGtE/UA versions of the Eberron races? I get the logic that this is technically an update and the material going forward is going to assume the new versions as the 'final' and 'official' versions, but obviously a lot of people want the WGtE/UA version as an option. Perhaps that could be a feature added down the line?
I just used the link you gave to try for a refund. The email I got said it could take up to 24-72 to hours to get a response. If I get a response I will post to let anyone else that has tried for a refund know what happens.
I'm still unclear if those of us who bought WgtE content such as races etc will eventually have access to the updated content? At the moment I'm unable to select warforged etc from the character creator. If it's a work in process then I'm happy with that, sometimes things take time. If I'd have to repurchase them then how would I go about applying for a refund on the content I've already bought?
I'm still unclear if those of us who bought WgtE content such as races etc will eventually have access to the updated content? At the moment I'm unable to select warforged etc from the character creator. If it's a work in process then I'm happy with that, sometimes things take time. If I'd have to repurchase them then how would I go about applying for a refund on the content I've already bought?
If you have bought WGtE, the races are supposed to be available to you as the updated versions, without the need of repurchasing them.
If that is still not the case, fill a ticket to support.
Thanks for the response filcat. Does that include buying individual components from the WgtE or did I need to buy the entire book?
That is true for individual options as well. For example: If I bought Warforged when WGtE was out (but not the digital book), I should have the updated Warforged now without the need of doing any transaction.
I guess I am coming late to this party as I am one of those that are unable to keep up to date with all of the content that is coming out. Reading through this it sounds like wotc and dndbeyond have an agreement where only the more updated content will be available on dndbeyond? If this is incorrect please let me know.
I completely believe this is a load of crap and have never played in a rpg game where the expectation is that as a DM and/or player that we will always be playing only with the latest updates and versions of content unless I played in official leagues which provided you with updates as to what content has been changed, updated, added, or removed. Dndbeyond's current recommendation is to leverage a homebrew race to resolve this in their current system, okay fair idea, what happens with content we can't homebrew ie. classes? The current potential changes to classes on UA brings up a lot of these worries because there is no homebrew classes right now, and we don't know how it will be implemented if it is, but hey I guess since it is UA at the moment we at least know it is considered testcontent.
I am wondering what is the plan to help this situation from dndbeyond's standpoint?
Version history would be something, but based on the first question, this doesn't seem like something we will get as this would mean different versions of content available.
There is no way to know what has been changed to your character when you show up on game day. The simple fact you have to know this boggles me, and as a DM depending on the changes or how many players are affected this could derail and entire session.
There isn't a sort of changelog available as a DM to see what has changed for all of my players today, or even in the content that I have purchased.
I guess I am coming late to this party as I am one of those that are unable to keep up to date with all of the content that is coming out. Reading through this it sounds like wotc and dndbeyond have an agreement where only the more updated content will be available on dndbeyond? If this is incorrect please let me know.
I completely believe this is a load of crap and have never played in a rpg game where the expectation is that as a DM and/or player that we will always be playing only with the latest updates and versions of content unless I played in official leagues which provided you with updates as to what content has been changed, updated, added, or removed. Dndbeyond's current recommendation is to leverage a homebrew race to resolve this in their current system, okay fair idea, what happens with content we can't homebrew ie. classes? The current potential changes to classes on UA brings up a lot of these worries because there is no homebrew classes right now, and we don't know how it will be implemented if it is, but hey I guess since it is UA at the moment we at least know it is considered testcontent.
I am wondering what is the plan to help this situation from dndbeyond's standpoint?
Version history would be something, but based on the first question, this doesn't seem like something we will get as this would mean different versions of content available.
There is no way to know what has been changed to your character when you show up on game day. The simple fact you have to know this boggles me, and as a DM depending on the changes or how many players are affected this could derail and entire session.
There isn't a sort of changelog available as a DM to see what has changed for all of my players today, or even in the content that I have purchased.
Existing characters who used the UA/playtest versions of classes and race will continue to use those versions of the races and classes; they are not updated to the new versions. Only new characters will use the updated version, or older characters where you go in and change the race or class to something else.
The difference is that no one paid for the DM guild version. No one paid specifically to use that content in another tool. It isn't relevant.
And no, this was not "always the plan". A vague mention of "updates" after the fact is in no way reasonably related to "all this content will be removed when the next book drops". No one agreed to pay for temporary content.
Official communication from Mike Mearls and the author was that this content was official, and when a new Eberron book released, it would complement rather than replace this material.
People did pay for the DMsGuild version; it was not a freebee, it was paid content. And it was identified there as playtest content from the beginning; over on enworld there was a long discussion about it when Wayfinders first dropped, with some folks complaining about paying for playtest.
Can you point me to where Mearls said it was it was official? The only person who has been able to provide me with a quote close to that is a comment that it was official for Ebberon and included information that it was playtest and that material in Wayfinders would be updated to reflect the changes they made after playtest.
I do remember Mearls saying in a video that any hardcover would be complimentary to Wayfinders. He also said there would be some duplication between the two books. I'm pretty confident that in that same video he talked about Wayfinders mechanics being playtest, but I'd have to track it down again and watch it to be absolutely certain about that.
I realize that for folks who only have access to Wayfinders here, the material may have temporarily disappeared. That's unfortunate, and it's entirely possible that DDB should have planned for this transition better. I definitely understand folks being upset about that.
I'm confident access to the final versions of the subclasses, races, etc. will be restored soon, but I realized that doesn't address folks' need or want to access those things now.
I know that the changes to the mechanics were in some cases (e.g. Warforged) far more extreme than typical for the UA to final published version, and that has added to the frustration with the transition.
I'm sorry you were disappointed. I'm sorry that the the wording about Wayfinder's being updated didn't give you sufficient information about the kinds of changes that could happen. I'm sorry you don't have access to the content you want.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk
Just wanted to make sure you were all aware of this message from BadEye:
https://twitter.com/BadEyeAdam/status/1196550341212422146
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
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In my eyes, the only thing that has to be done to make it right is to restore access to the options from WGtE.
Homebrewing content that I have already paid for seems unfair, so don't tell me to do that, I've heard it enough over the last couple of days.
But that just isn't how it works. DDB is disallowed from doing that without WotC's permission (as it is WotC's IP).
You paid for automatically updating content. That content was updated. You have to homebrew the old content back in if you want to use it. That is how it has always worked.
That's not "how it has always worked", this is the first time they've tried to pull this.
Actually, something similar happened way back when XGtE came out and updated a bunch of stuff from EEPC. But also I was referring to anytime playtest has had a new version (yes they were playtest, I know we paid for them and that sucks, but doesn't make them not playtest).
This has been the only paid "playtest" content.
Exactly that ^^^ . And I think that's really the crux of this issue. We paid for the content which was in that sourcebook, we no longer have access to that.
I just used the link you gave to try for a refund. The email I got said it could take up to 24-72 to hours to get a response. If I get a response I will post to let anyone else that has tried for a refund know what happens.
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Hello, I still don't have access to battle smith (which I paid for) in my content.
Thanks.
If you bought ERftLW, you should have it. Do you have the artillerist?
I'm still unclear if those of us who bought WgtE content such as races etc will eventually have access to the updated content? At the moment I'm unable to select warforged etc from the character creator. If it's a work in process then I'm happy with that, sometimes things take time. If I'd have to repurchase them then how would I go about applying for a refund on the content I've already bought?
If you have bought WGtE, the races are supposed to be available to you as the updated versions, without the need of repurchasing them.
If that is still not the case, fill a ticket to support.
Thanks for the response filcat. Does that include buying individual components from the WgtE or did I need to buy the entire book?
That is true for individual options as well. For example: If I bought Warforged when WGtE was out (but not the digital book), I should have the updated Warforged now without the need of doing any transaction.
Thanks for the prompt responses and clearing that up for me. I'll submit the support ticket now.
I guess I am coming late to this party as I am one of those that are unable to keep up to date with all of the content that is coming out. Reading through this it sounds like wotc and dndbeyond have an agreement where only the more updated content will be available on dndbeyond? If this is incorrect please let me know.
I completely believe this is a load of crap and have never played in a rpg game where the expectation is that as a DM and/or player that we will always be playing only with the latest updates and versions of content unless I played in official leagues which provided you with updates as to what content has been changed, updated, added, or removed. Dndbeyond's current recommendation is to leverage a homebrew race to resolve this in their current system, okay fair idea, what happens with content we can't homebrew ie. classes? The current potential changes to classes on UA brings up a lot of these worries because there is no homebrew classes right now, and we don't know how it will be implemented if it is, but hey I guess since it is UA at the moment we at least know it is considered testcontent.
I am wondering what is the plan to help this situation from dndbeyond's standpoint?
Existing characters who used the UA/playtest versions of classes and race will continue to use those versions of the races and classes; they are not updated to the new versions. Only new characters will use the updated version, or older characters where you go in and change the race or class to something else.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
Check your entitlements here. | Support Ticket LInk