I've also realised that some of my frustration was due to having to make two touches to change to a different display (one to open the nav options and then one to select). I would personally prefer them as always visible icons across the bottom of the screen. It wouldn't be possible to display the full text on each one, but it would allow for simple memorisation of where to tap for each screen.
Here's a quick mockup of what I'm suggesting:
This does lose a little visible space from the screen, but I feel it would be a better experience overall.
I like the overall look of the redesign. However, as a mobile user I find its somehow more work to use. I dont’ want to have to change pages just to see my spells or attacks and then to go back to the main page for HP/stats/saves. I liked how everything was right there on the same page, now it seems to take more time for me to figure out what I want to do with my character on his turn because of constantly going back and forth between pages.
I would love for an easy way (or a way at all) to hide the higher level versions of low level spells for each level of spells. Some times you just want to know which spells you have availble, not just having the same spells being repeated/spammed all over. The new way of displaying it, while in some way genious and well intended, might very well get in the way and probably will. The option to toggle this on/off would be greatly appreciated!
We intend to add a toggle preference, but we wanted to see how the feedback goes for it before introducing that. It will come - thanks!
When will a proper implementation of scrolls be added, so that you can add a scroll of a particular spell? Right now, even if you have say 3 2nd level scrolls, and add a comment with each spell name, it only gives you one use.
Also, why aren't wands and scrolls listed under combat attacks, like other "spell actions" are?
The "Desktop Mode" link in the mobile menu was supposed to be removed. Clicking on that (it sounds like that's what you have done) will produce a completely bad experience. Unfortunately, the only way to get back into a mode that looks correct is to clear cookies for D&D Beyond. Apologies for that inconvenience.
The size of the desktop sheet is 1200 pixels, which will not fit on even landscape iPads, which are 1024. We are hearing the feedback about iPad landscape layout and are reviewing if any changes are needed. We want to be sure if we make changes that we consider all feedback after it's been used in play.
Thanks!
No, I never saw a "Desktop Mode" link on the page or on mobile. I was using Safari's built in process for forcing desktop mode, holding down on the "refresh" icon until the option to "request desktop mode" appears; I will try clearing cookies, and see if that addresses the zooming issue.
I'm posting this for the sake of thoroughness, and in case anyone else runs into the zoom issue, not as a complaint. Clearing cookies did not change what I saw or how the character sheet responded. Attempting to zoom still triggers a different function in Safari. I'm guessing this is related to how Safari works when there is no desktop version available, and not specifically an issue with DDB beyond that.
This is a very minor thing, but when navigating the spell tabs / pages it would be nice if the spell slots were below the modifier / spell attack / spell DC values. It would make for a smoother visual transition moving from Cantrips to Level Spells.
In Chrome on my phone (Nexus 5X) the header bar shows the character tidbits, hit points display and inspiration button.
In Chrome on my iPad Mini, the header bar shows the character tidbits section, the short rest button, the long rest button and the character builder button. This means that hit points are not easily accessible while on the combat screen, which is very inconvenient as a player needs to swap between the combat screen and abilities, saves, etc. screen frequently during combat.
Please change the display on iPad Mini to show hit points instead of the character builder and long rest buttons, which are needed much less frequently and are already easily accessed from the tidbits drop-down menu.
I've now had a chance to check properly and it's all widths greater than 768 and less than 1200 that don't have hit points always displayed. I'm sure this is an oversight rather that a deliberate decision and look forward to it being corrected.
This will be addressed in an update tonight - thanks!
In Chrome on my phone (Nexus 5X) the header bar shows the character tidbits, hit points display and inspiration button.
In Chrome on my iPad Mini, the header bar shows the character tidbits section, the short rest button, the long rest button and the character builder button. This means that hit points are not easily accessible while on the combat screen, which is very inconvenient as a player needs to swap between the combat screen and abilities, saves, etc. screen frequently during combat.
Please change the display on iPad Mini to show hit points instead of the character builder and long rest buttons, which are needed much less frequently and are already easily accessed from the tidbits drop-down menu.
I've now had a chance to check properly and it's all widths greater than 768 and less than 1200 that don't have hit points always displayed. I'm sure this is an oversight rather that a deliberate decision and look forward to it being corrected.
This will be addressed in an update tonight - thanks!
Generally love the revamp! Thanks DnD Beyond Team!
I have one small problem, in responsive view on my tablet, my split window option is right on top of your button to open up the other features of my character, maybe move it up next to the long/short rest buttons and let it move with the page?
Hey! As you can see by my account I use Beyond constantly. Every day in fact. I LOVE this product, or rather did love it. I have some feedback, not sure why there was such a drastic change? Iterative change is much better. This did not require an overhaul, you all had already made it practically perfect. It was obvious you all had real UX experience. We all commented on how thoughtful the design had been from day one. So, now it's all changed.. and here are our thoughts.
I think taking the original "top bar" away was a mistake. Your original instincts were better in that area. Base Stats across the top are wasted space. Having everything you needed across the top was already perfect.
Also now all the accordions are gone? All of them? I now have to scroll through everything? Again your original instincts were better. Were people actually complaining about the ability to pick and choose what they wanted to show at any one time? They preferred scrolling through everything? Please bring back accordions, maybe make a tutorial for people who don't know how to use them properly? Maybe just replace the top accordions in the hierarchy? Nobody needs to see everything at once. Maybe have "all open" option for people that want that mess?
AC buried in a tab? Replaced with Inspiration space? Please get rid of inspiration and put AC back please. Also, Proficiencies and languages do not need that much room at all, they need the least room. Reducing that, you have room to reshuffle stats back to the left side and replace the previous top bar.
The spells section is nice though! The whole combat area is really good except for AC being buried there. Keep it there as well, but please put it back at the top. I used to be able to tell all the new people that everything they needed was at the very top. I run several games with 6-7 people on a regular basis. It was perfectly fine.
Your original layout was brilliant. It worked and maybe needed a bit of a tweak but not this. Too many people telling you what to do when you already had it locked. I feel bad, all your original hard work went away. Trust yourselves. You have the BEST product out there now.
Great improvements to the character sheet! My one major gripe is that the sections for Saving Throws, Senses, Proficiencies & Languages, and Skills have their labels at the bottom of the box. Those should be at the top. The Skills section title is "below the fold," even. The sections on the right side where you can flip through various options have them placed correctly at the top.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D&D player and DM since 1981. I learned to play D&D at Band Camp (none nerdier). Favorite RPGs: D&D 5e, The Burning Wheel. Currently running a homebrew-ish Nentir Vale campaign (5e).
This used to show in the Spells List with the Source being Eldritch Invocations. It would be nice to have this back ;)
And this is already fixed. You guys are unbelievably awesome! The more and more I play with the sheet, the more and more I love it. Thanks for the awesome work!!!
I've come across three little things that I believe could be slightly improved in the masterwork that's the new sheet. :p
1. On the Saving Throws panel, up to three modifiers can be shown. However, there's nothing to point out you may have more; perhaps an ellipses below? Perhaps allow it a table format that fits six items, like the saves above (since when a line is too long it gets truncated anyway but the tooltip shows it, I don't think any information would be lost). I prefer to know that I have 5 relevant things that can help me and need to click on it to get a refresher, than have 3 of them at a glance and forget about a critical fourth.
2. Can we get customizability on the Initiative score, like we have with AC (and just about everything else now)? On a relevant matter, I'd like to have a source reference when I hover over an advantage on initiative, for example, than the tooltip pointing out "Advantage on Initiative". Yes, buy why?! :p
3. On the spells panel, and the equipment panel, I personally doubt I'll ever use Search. As such, I'd prefer it didn't take an entire line of very premium space. Perhaps put it on the top right corner, next to the "Combat | Actions | Spells | Equipment" line (and have it do relevant searches depending on which is active)? Perhaps shunt it into a search icon that only expands into the search line when clicked?
I'd concede it more useful if you could type in an item (for example, "Longsword") and clicking on the "Add items" button that appears it directly relayed that search to the add item dialogue on the sidebar, but it doesn't even do that (you have to type your search again), so... I'd rather it go away. :p
As I have been tooling around the website there are some strange UI choices.
Yes having the top bar with immediate info (HP, AC, Pof bonus, etc.) should be returned, with the option to set what items you want to see.
Honestly, the mobile web version of the character sheet is the best layout. The only, once again strange choice, is having a too convoluted general stat page. Just call it "core stats" not "every other option not listed in the other tab options listed so it looks like a hot mess" tab.
Flip that UI to the PC web page fixes alot of the UI problems.
Just as an initial observation I play a sorcerer, and while now I can actually see all the options my sorcery points allow me it still has no impact on my spell list. Using my sorc. points to add another spell slot should be visible, even if I use the spell immediately, this completely streamlines keeping track of what I am using. Likewise, having metamagic effects add flavor text to all spells it can have an effect on, then disappearing once I cast a spell, is such a simple thing to implement I don't understand why it isn't there. You have finally allowed temporary adjustments to base stats, but when I cast shield it does not adjust my AC at all, I just have to remember that until the beginning of my next turn my AC is effectively 20. once again, why not just add the temp bonus and show it in a way that reminds me it's temporary? You have all the real estate in the world to list this info.
You are "almost" there in making action item options more integrated. I really think you should tie any affects, effects, or modifiers from any ability into the other parts of the page where they apply. Once again you can list these temporary or turn/round options on the top page to help players keep track. But you are absolutely missing out on what a digital character sheet's biggest advantage is over traditional pen and paper; the ability to track, document and do the mechanical operations seamlessly and quickly so the player doesn't have to spend any mental energy on those tasks, just focusing on playing the character and working out the tactical/strategic situation.
There's a reason why Excel is the default accountant tool, it seamlessly does the multitude of operations that needed to be done by hand and written out manually and keeps track more efficiently and with less error than any human could ever hope to reach. DnD Beyond can absolutely fill that role in tabletop rpg. It's not a matter of content, but of design. Can an accountant keep track of those things in his head if he wanted to? Yes, but he couldn't be anywhere nearly as effective. That has been the #1 issue with digital character sheets, and that is the killer feature that, in my opinion, is holding DnD Beyond back. Whatever information and mechanics that can be handled by the computer should be handled by the computer, the operator merely has to read the data and select the options and provide input.
I mean with something like that you can literally create a digital rpg tabletop system where a group of players, networked together, with a DM app, can run an entire pen and paper/ tabletop RPG game while retaining the primary feature of pen and paper games, live player to player interaction. The DM can literally see the what options each player has, what abilities they used, and keep track of timing and order of battle so that the players are just selecting an option and recording the results. This even allows for everything from pure theater of the mind, manual real dice rolling campaigns to heavily strategic/tactical, grid-based rules heavy sessions to pure online roll20 style gameplay experience(even if you don't create a virtual map system, there would be plenty of 3rd party devs who would love to fill that space, if there was definitive 5e digital character sheet/DM System to use as a backbone).
I have been playing RPG's in one form or another for over 20 years at this point. I have been hoping for the day when I can literally ditch the pen and paper altogether and having to stop and flip through dozens of pages of books in mid-action and all the other necessary evils of playing that type of game. Or having to memorize every nuance and minutia of the rules as quickly as possible. I see too many times when games get bogged down in minutes long scrambles to clarify rules and locate specific text to determine what the rules are. Too many times I have seen DM's retcon events because, once again, not being able to just read the relevant data or seeing relevant adjustments in real-time meant, because of simple human error, that something wasn't kept track of properly, or accounted for, or had the proper effect. These are things which can be virtually eliminated with a digital character sheet and DM tools.
Just my .02 cents. I am actually happy to see some progress made, but I think it still has a long way to go to meet the potential it could have.
And I haven't even tried to use homebrew options yet.......
The size of the desktop sheet is 1200 pixels, which will not fit on even landscape iPads, which are 1024. We are hearing the feedback about iPad landscape layout and are reviewing if any changes are needed. We want to be sure if we make changes that we consider all feedback after it's been used in play.
I appreciate you guys saying you are looking into feedback, and honestly hope something comes of it. That said, this confuses me. Allowing full desktop sheets on the iPad as an optional thing wouldn't negatively affect anyone who somehow likes the current iPad layout. Might have missed it in these threads, but seems the overwhelming consensus is that it is not being received well. If there are some people out there that like it, fine. There are a ton of people who do not. Add a toggle and be done with it. And, for the record, I tried my best for multiple hours to use it in play. I found it easier to go back to a physical character sheet that was several levels behind...
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I've also realised that some of my frustration was due to having to make two touches to change to a different display (one to open the nav options and then one to select). I would personally prefer them as always visible icons across the bottom of the screen. It wouldn't be possible to display the full text on each one, but it would allow for simple memorisation of where to tap for each screen.
Here's a quick mockup of what I'm suggesting:
This does lose a little visible space from the screen, but I feel it would be a better experience overall.
I like the overall look of the redesign. However, as a mobile user I find its somehow more work to use. I dont’ want to have to change pages just to see my spells or attacks and then to go back to the main page for HP/stats/saves. I liked how everything was right there on the same page, now it seems to take more time for me to figure out what I want to do with my character on his turn because of constantly going back and forth between pages.
We intend to add a toggle preference, but we wanted to see how the feedback goes for it before introducing that. It will come - thanks!
When will a proper implementation of scrolls be added, so that you can add a scroll of a particular spell? Right now, even if you have say 3 2nd level scrolls, and add a comment with each spell name, it only gives you one use.
Also, why aren't wands and scrolls listed under combat attacks, like other "spell actions" are?
Overall a nice revamp, thanks!
I'm posting this for the sake of thoroughness, and in case anyone else runs into the zoom issue, not as a complaint. Clearing cookies did not change what I saw or how the character sheet responded. Attempting to zoom still triggers a different function in Safari. I'm guessing this is related to how Safari works when there is no desktop version available, and not specifically an issue with DDB beyond that.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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This is a very minor thing, but when navigating the spell tabs / pages it would be nice if the spell slots were below the modifier / spell attack / spell DC values. It would make for a smoother visual transition moving from Cantrips to Level Spells.
This will be addressed in an update tonight - thanks!
This will be addressed in an update tonight - thanks!
Generally love the revamp! Thanks DnD Beyond Team!
I have one small problem, in responsive view on my tablet, my split window option is right on top of your button to open up the other features of my character, maybe move it up next to the long/short rest buttons and let it move with the page?
Hey! As you can see by my account I use Beyond constantly. Every day in fact. I LOVE this product, or rather did love it. I have some feedback, not sure why there was such a drastic change? Iterative change is much better. This did not require an overhaul, you all had already made it practically perfect. It was obvious you all had real UX experience. We all commented on how thoughtful the design had been from day one. So, now it's all changed.. and here are our thoughts.
I think taking the original "top bar" away was a mistake. Your original instincts were better in that area. Base Stats across the top are wasted space. Having everything you needed across the top was already perfect.
Also now all the accordions are gone? All of them? I now have to scroll through everything? Again your original instincts were better. Were people actually complaining about the ability to pick and choose what they wanted to show at any one time? They preferred scrolling through everything? Please bring back accordions, maybe make a tutorial for people who don't know how to use them properly? Maybe just replace the top accordions in the hierarchy? Nobody needs to see everything at once. Maybe have "all open" option for people that want that mess?
AC buried in a tab? Replaced with Inspiration space? Please get rid of inspiration and put AC back please. Also, Proficiencies and languages do not need that much room at all, they need the least room. Reducing that, you have room to reshuffle stats back to the left side and replace the previous top bar.
The spells section is nice though! The whole combat area is really good except for AC being buried there. Keep it there as well, but please put it back at the top. I used to be able to tell all the new people that everything they needed was at the very top. I run several games with 6-7 people on a regular basis. It was perfectly fine.
Your original layout was brilliant. It worked and maybe needed a bit of a tweak but not this. Too many people telling you what to do when you already had it locked. I feel bad, all your original hard work went away. Trust yourselves. You have the BEST product out there now.
Love the new look. I do have a question, how do you add limited use items?
Great improvements to the character sheet! My one major gripe is that the sections for Saving Throws, Senses, Proficiencies & Languages, and Skills have their labels at the bottom of the box. Those should be at the top. The Skills section title is "below the fold," even. The sections on the right side where you can flip through various options have them placed correctly at the top.
D&D player and DM since 1981. I learned to play D&D at Band Camp (none nerdier). Favorite RPGs: D&D 5e, The Burning Wheel. Currently running a homebrew-ish Nentir Vale campaign (5e).
I’m not sure if this has been brought up already but:
1. There’s no health section in the “combat” section - which would be really useful
2. All rituals need to be listed for wizards as we can use these even if they are unprepared
however the new layout will be easier for paper character sheet users to use.
Gonna take getting used to. Is it possible to give us the option to use the old style?
And this is already fixed. You guys are unbelievably awesome! The more and more I play with the sheet, the more and more I love it. Thanks for the awesome work!!!
Please fix links (several throughout the sheet) where it isn't clear it is actually a link.
Examples include stuff under Features & Traits, Combat > Unarmed Strikes, AC, Actions, etc.
Free example code for a single-CSS entry fix :)
Playtesting Fugare Draconis, an epic tale of adventure, loss, and redemption
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Playtesting Fugare Draconis, an epic tale of adventure, loss, and redemption
I've come across three little things that I believe could be slightly improved in the masterwork that's the new sheet. :p
1. On the Saving Throws panel, up to three modifiers can be shown. However, there's nothing to point out you may have more; perhaps an ellipses below? Perhaps allow it a table format that fits six items, like the saves above (since when a line is too long it gets truncated anyway but the tooltip shows it, I don't think any information would be lost).
I prefer to know that I have 5 relevant things that can help me and need to click on it to get a refresher, than have 3 of them at a glance and forget about a critical fourth.
2. Can we get customizability on the Initiative score, like we have with AC (and just about everything else now)?
On a relevant matter, I'd like to have a source reference when I hover over an advantage on initiative, for example, than the tooltip pointing out "Advantage on Initiative". Yes, buy why?! :p
3. On the spells panel, and the equipment panel, I personally doubt I'll ever use Search. As such, I'd prefer it didn't take an entire line of very premium space.
Perhaps put it on the top right corner, next to the "Combat | Actions | Spells | Equipment" line (and have it do relevant searches depending on which is active)?
Perhaps shunt it into a search icon that only expands into the search line when clicked?
I'd concede it more useful if you could type in an item (for example, "Longsword") and clicking on the "Add items" button that appears it directly relayed that search to the add item dialogue on the sidebar, but it doesn't even do that (you have to type your search again), so... I'd rather it go away. :p
As I have been tooling around the website there are some strange UI choices.
Yes having the top bar with immediate info (HP, AC, Pof bonus, etc.) should be returned, with the option to set what items you want to see.
Honestly, the mobile web version of the character sheet is the best layout. The only, once again strange choice, is having a too convoluted general stat page. Just call it "core stats" not "every other option not listed in the other tab options listed so it looks like a hot mess" tab.
Flip that UI to the PC web page fixes alot of the UI problems.
Just as an initial observation I play a sorcerer, and while now I can actually see all the options my sorcery points allow me it still has no impact on my spell list. Using my sorc. points to add another spell slot should be visible, even if I use the spell immediately, this completely streamlines keeping track of what I am using. Likewise, having metamagic effects add flavor text to all spells it can have an effect on, then disappearing once I cast a spell, is such a simple thing to implement I don't understand why it isn't there. You have finally allowed temporary adjustments to base stats, but when I cast shield it does not adjust my AC at all, I just have to remember that until the beginning of my next turn my AC is effectively 20. once again, why not just add the temp bonus and show it in a way that reminds me it's temporary? You have all the real estate in the world to list this info.
You are "almost" there in making action item options more integrated. I really think you should tie any affects, effects, or modifiers from any ability into the other parts of the page where they apply. Once again you can list these temporary or turn/round options on the top page to help players keep track. But you are absolutely missing out on what a digital character sheet's biggest advantage is over traditional pen and paper; the ability to track, document and do the mechanical operations seamlessly and quickly so the player doesn't have to spend any mental energy on those tasks, just focusing on playing the character and working out the tactical/strategic situation.
There's a reason why Excel is the default accountant tool, it seamlessly does the multitude of operations that needed to be done by hand and written out manually and keeps track more efficiently and with less error than any human could ever hope to reach. DnD Beyond can absolutely fill that role in tabletop rpg. It's not a matter of content, but of design. Can an accountant keep track of those things in his head if he wanted to? Yes, but he couldn't be anywhere nearly as effective. That has been the #1 issue with digital character sheets, and that is the killer feature that, in my opinion, is holding DnD Beyond back. Whatever information and mechanics that can be handled by the computer should be handled by the computer, the operator merely has to read the data and select the options and provide input.
I mean with something like that you can literally create a digital rpg tabletop system where a group of players, networked together, with a DM app, can run an entire pen and paper/ tabletop RPG game while retaining the primary feature of pen and paper games, live player to player interaction. The DM can literally see the what options each player has, what abilities they used, and keep track of timing and order of battle so that the players are just selecting an option and recording the results. This even allows for everything from pure theater of the mind, manual real dice rolling campaigns to heavily strategic/tactical, grid-based rules heavy sessions to pure online roll20 style gameplay experience(even if you don't create a virtual map system, there would be plenty of 3rd party devs who would love to fill that space, if there was definitive 5e digital character sheet/DM System to use as a backbone).
I have been playing RPG's in one form or another for over 20 years at this point. I have been hoping for the day when I can literally ditch the pen and paper altogether and having to stop and flip through dozens of pages of books in mid-action and all the other necessary evils of playing that type of game. Or having to memorize every nuance and minutia of the rules as quickly as possible. I see too many times when games get bogged down in minutes long scrambles to clarify rules and locate specific text to determine what the rules are. Too many times I have seen DM's retcon events because, once again, not being able to just read the relevant data or seeing relevant adjustments in real-time meant, because of simple human error, that something wasn't kept track of properly, or accounted for, or had the proper effect. These are things which can be virtually eliminated with a digital character sheet and DM tools.
Just my .02 cents. I am actually happy to see some progress made, but I think it still has a long way to go to meet the potential it could have.
And I haven't even tried to use homebrew options yet.......
I appreciate you guys saying you are looking into feedback, and honestly hope something comes of it. That said, this confuses me. Allowing full desktop sheets on the iPad as an optional thing wouldn't negatively affect anyone who somehow likes the current iPad layout. Might have missed it in these threads, but seems the overwhelming consensus is that it is not being received well. If there are some people out there that like it, fine. There are a ton of people who do not. Add a toggle and be done with it. And, for the record, I tried my best for multiple hours to use it in play. I found it easier to go back to a physical character sheet that was several levels behind...