I called it! I didn't call the name, but I knew that this is what this book would be! Woohoo!!!
This is awesome! I'm buying this as soon as I get the money and the preorder price for Amazon goes down. Hopefully they fixed the main mechanical/thematic issues that some of the spells/feats/subclasses/races had. If the dragons in this book are as mechanically and thematically amazing as the monsters from Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft's bestiary, this book will be one of my most used D&D books. Mythic Great Wyrms and Dragon-God Avatars here we go!!!
However, I have a question as to what this refers to:
Offers everything a Dungeon Master needs to craft adventures inspired by dragons across the worlds of D&D, with new dragon lair maps and details on 20 different kinds of dragons.
There are 5 core Chromatic Dragons, 5 core Metallic Dragons, and 5 core Gem Dragons. That makes 15, not 20. What could the other 5 be? Planar dragons? Are they going to make templates for other Planar Dragons like they did for the Shadow Dragons?!?! That would be awesome! Shadow, Faerie, Celestial, Fiendish, and Ethereal/Ghost Dragons would receive a warm welcome from me if they were introduced. I sure hope that's what this refers to (and hope even more that it's not a typo). However, it could just be some of the older editions' dragon types, like Obsidian, Steel, Mercury, Brown/Yellow/Purple, and Electrum Dragons. Either way, I'm sure that I will enjoy them.
I'm also intrigued by the "Prime World" lore that will be featured in this book. That sounds interesting . . . I hope it's good and something I can make use of. Grognards complain about lore changes in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I called it! I didn't call the name, but I knew that this is what this book would be! Woohoo!!!
This is awesome! I'm buying this as soon as I get the money and the preorder price for Amazon goes down. Hopefully they fixed the main mechanical/thematic issues that some of the spells/feats/subclasses/races had. If the dragons in this book are as mechanically and thematically amazing as the monsters from Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft's bestiary, this book will be one of my most used D&D books. Mythic Great Wyrms and Dragon-God Avatars here we go!!!
However, I have a question as to what this refers to:
Offers everything a Dungeon Master needs to craft adventures inspired by dragons across the worlds of D&D, with new dragon lair maps and details on 20 different kinds of dragons.
There are 5 core Chromatic Dragons, 5 core Metallic Dragons, and 5 core Gem Dragons. That makes 15, not 20. What could the other 5 be? Planar dragons? Are they going to make templates for other Planar Dragons like they did for the Shadow Dragons?!?! That would be awesome! Shadow, Faerie, Celestial, Fiendish, and Ethereal/Ghost Dragons would receive a warm welcome from me if they were introduced. I sure hope that's what this refers to (and hope even more that it's not a typo). However, it could just be some of the older editions' dragon types, like Obsidian, Steel, Mercury, Brown/Yellow/Purple, and Electrum Dragons. Either way, I'm sure that I will enjoy them.
I'm also intrigued by the "Prime World" lore that will be featured in this book. That sounds interesting . . . I hope it's good and something I can make use of. Grognards complain about lore changes in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1
The Dragon Turtle is potentially one of the remaining 5 as they have revealed art for a Great Wyrm Dragon Turtle.
I like Coleville's Gem Dragons too. I think I'd agree they're "better" in that they're probably a more "richer" monster than what WotC will likely produce (using canonical sapphire dragon as precedent) but also require a lot more investment in the DM to run properly (the psychics are wild).
I'm using Coleville's psionics generally in my game (not just dragons have it). I even made a custom feat that allows players a few points of psionic power and a chance to get a little bit more as they level (never more than 6 or so). One of my players thought it was so cool she took that as her level 8 feat.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It could also be possible that the 5 remaining dragons from the 20 getting featured in the book could be other Metallic, Chromatic, or Gem Dragons from previous editions.
Potentially Steel, Iron, Mithral, or Adamantine for Metallic.
Potentially Brown, Purple (Deep Dragons), or Gray (Fang Dragons) for Chromatic
Obsidian or Amber for Gem.
Not sure how likely that is but it’s a thought.
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
It could also be possible that the 5 remaining dragons from the 20 getting featured in the book could be other Metallic, Chromatic, or Gem Dragons from previous editions.
Potentially Steel, Iron, Mithral, or Adamantine for Metallic. (OR Mercury)
Potentially Brown, Purple (Deep Dragons), or Gray (Fang Dragons) for Chromatic. (OR Yellow)
Obsidian or Amber for Gem. (OR Jade...actually, probably not Jade)
Not sure how likely that is but it’s a thought.
Added some you missed.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
YES!!!!!!!! I’ve been waiting for this since the first rumblings of “there’s a dragon book coming up” surfaced. I gotta say, I have probably never waited for any book like I’ve waited for this one. I don’t just mean any D&D book, I mean ANY BOOK EVER (except maybe Harry Potter). I can’t even put this into words, I’m so excited!
Dragon encounters, dragon lair maps, dragon adventure-making tips, Tiamat and Bahamut history, this just keeps getting better the more I read about it.
The Dragon Turtle is potentially one of the remaining 5 as they have revealed art for a Great Wyrm Dragon Turtle.
Though that’s just my guess.
I wonder if they would have a lair for a Dragon Turtle, or just have the Great Wyrm Dragon Turtle be the lair, like a Zaratan island. Good guess, though.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I like the implication that they are making more use of the mythical template for the great wyrms. Slowly but surely they are improving monster design.
We have confirmation, based on some of the interviews with James Wyatt and various articles, of a few of the Dragons and other creatures that will be in the book.
Moonstone Dragons
DracoHydras
Draconians
Elder Brain Dragons
Dragon Sized Hoard mimic
New Drakes and Wyverns
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
The list of dragons that are getting in-depth descriptions and lairs in this book has been announced. It's all of the True Dragons (Chromatic, Metallic, Gemstone), as well as the Shadow Dragons, Faerie Dragons, Moonstone Dragons (not Gem Dragons, strangely, they're actually more like a Feywild version of Shadow Dragons), Dragon Turtles, and Deep Dragons.
Additionally, there's some previews and art that has been released. Here they are:
I am also pretty sad that warlocks have managed to get missed in this pretty easy concept, but I realized that they might just be out of ideas. The Genie warlock from Tasha’s works REALLY well as a reflavor, with elemental damage, resistance, elemental spells, flight, and even a personal hoard. They might have made a dragon warlock and realized it was way too similar to the Genie, so they scrapped it.
Freaking hyped for this new book. Dragonborn finally getting some love from those new UA ancestries. (Also F in chat for Draconic Kobold not making it out of UA)
The only thing I would say kinda bums me is that Monk and Ranger are getting dragon themed subclasses but not Warlock. I've always felt like a Warlock making a pact with Tiamat or any other draconic entity would be a cool concept to explore.
That could be neat. Maybe they fear it'd have too much overlap with draconic bloodline sorc, both being cha casters and all? But then it's not like subclasses have never had thematic overlap before.
"I've always felt like a Warlock making a pact with Tiamat or any other draconic entity would be a cool concept to explore."
They can already do that. Tiamat is a Fiend. Bahamut would be a Celestial.
"Dragon" might just be too diverse to be represented as a single type of patron. Easier to pick one of the existing ones and flavour as desired. The Undead references a dracolich specifically, but really any of the patron options could be draconic in nature if you want it to be.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"I've always felt like a Warlock making a pact with Tiamat or any other draconic entity would be a cool concept to explore."
They can already do that. Tiamat is a Fiend. Bahamut would be a Celestial.
"Dragon" might just be too diverse to be represented as a single type of patron. Easier to pick one of the existing ones and flavour as desired. The Undead references a dracolich specifically, but really any of the patron options could be draconic in nature if you want it to be.
Fathomless could work for an aquatic dragon, and Fiend could work for a red dragon.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Though I really want a Dragon-Patron subclass for Warlocks, I could see some reflavoring working for certain types of dragons with the existing Warlock subclasses. For example:
Fiend for Red Dragons, Tiamat, and Abishai.
Fathomless for Sea Serpents (which will be coming out in Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, actually) and possibly White Dragons.
Archfey for Faerie Dragons and Moonstone Dragons (which are coming out in Fizban's, and are basically the Feywild equivalent of Shadow Dragons).
Celestial for Bahamut and maybe Gold/Brass Dragons.
Genie for Silver, Gold, White, and Red Dragons.
Great Old One for Gem Dragons. (And Aberrant Mind Sorcerers for those related to Gem Dragons.)
Hexblade for Shadow Dragons.
Undead for Dracoliches.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
You could definitely make a warlock subclass around dragons. I think they may have gone for monk/ranger though to add more diversity to the classes with dragon themed subclasses. One focusing on a pet and another working it into martial combat instead of spellcasting.
A draconic patron for warlocks makes sense. But at the same time, giving rangers a dragon pet and the whole dragon monk martial combat thing are both more interesting to me than a second cha caster themed around dragons. That's not to say it wouldn't work or wouldn't be interesting, or that you couldn't do it in a way that feels distinct from dragon blood sorc. But, IMO, the options we got are more interesting. Especially the monk one.
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I called it! I didn't call the name, but I knew that this is what this book would be! Woohoo!!!
This is awesome! I'm buying this as soon as I get the money and the preorder price for Amazon goes down. Hopefully they fixed the main mechanical/thematic issues that some of the spells/feats/subclasses/races had. If the dragons in this book are as mechanically and thematically amazing as the monsters from Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft's bestiary, this book will be one of my most used D&D books. Mythic Great Wyrms and Dragon-God Avatars here we go!!!
However, I have a question as to what this refers to:
There are 5 core Chromatic Dragons, 5 core Metallic Dragons, and 5 core Gem Dragons. That makes 15, not 20. What could the other 5 be? Planar dragons? Are they going to make templates for other Planar Dragons like they did for the Shadow Dragons?!?! That would be awesome! Shadow, Faerie, Celestial, Fiendish, and Ethereal/Ghost Dragons would receive a warm welcome from me if they were introduced. I sure hope that's what this refers to (and hope even more that it's not a typo). However, it could just be some of the older editions' dragon types, like Obsidian, Steel, Mercury, Brown/Yellow/Purple, and Electrum Dragons. Either way, I'm sure that I will enjoy them.
I'm also intrigued by the "Prime World" lore that will be featured in this book. That sounds interesting . . . I hope it's good and something I can make use of. Grognards complain about lore changes in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The Dragon Turtle is potentially one of the remaining 5 as they have revealed art for a Great Wyrm Dragon Turtle.
Though that’s just my guess.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I'm using Coleville's psionics generally in my game (not just dragons have it). I even made a custom feat that allows players a few points of psionic power and a chance to get a little bit more as they level (never more than 6 or so). One of my players thought it was so cool she took that as her level 8 feat.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It could also be possible that the 5 remaining dragons from the 20 getting featured in the book could be other Metallic, Chromatic, or Gem Dragons from previous editions.
Not sure how likely that is but it’s a thought.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Added some you missed.
YES!!!!!!!! I’ve been waiting for this since the first rumblings of “there’s a dragon book coming up” surfaced. I gotta say, I have probably never waited for any book like I’ve waited for this one. I don’t just mean any D&D book, I mean ANY BOOK EVER (except maybe Harry Potter). I can’t even put this into words, I’m so excited!
Dragon encounters, dragon lair maps, dragon adventure-making tips, Tiamat and Bahamut history, this just keeps getting better the more I read about it.
I CAN’T WAIT!!!!!!!!!
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
JOIN TIAMAT'S CONGA LINE!
Extended Sig
I wonder if they would have a lair for a Dragon Turtle, or just have the Great Wyrm Dragon Turtle be the lair, like a Zaratan island. Good guess, though.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I like the implication that they are making more use of the mythical template for the great wyrms. Slowly but surely they are improving monster design.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
We have confirmation, based on some of the interviews with James Wyatt and various articles, of a few of the Dragons and other creatures that will be in the book.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Okay, Elder Brain Dragons and Dragon Hoard Mimics sound seriously cool!
"I've always felt like a Warlock making a pact with Tiamat or any other draconic entity would be a cool concept to explore."
They can already do that. Tiamat is a Fiend. Bahamut would be a Celestial.
<Insert clever signature here>
The list of dragons that are getting in-depth descriptions and lairs in this book has been announced. It's all of the True Dragons (Chromatic, Metallic, Gemstone), as well as the Shadow Dragons, Faerie Dragons, Moonstone Dragons (not Gem Dragons, strangely, they're actually more like a Feywild version of Shadow Dragons), Dragon Turtles, and Deep Dragons.
Additionally, there's some previews and art that has been released. Here they are:
https://www.enworld.org/threads/fizbans-treasury-of-dragons-previews.682794/#post-8403191
https://www.enworld.org/threads/fizbans-treasury-dragons-ranked-by-challenge-rating.682795/
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I am also pretty sad that warlocks have managed to get missed in this pretty easy concept, but I realized that they might just be out of ideas. The Genie warlock from Tasha’s works REALLY well as a reflavor, with elemental damage, resistance, elemental spells, flight, and even a personal hoard. They might have made a dragon warlock and realized it was way too similar to the Genie, so they scrapped it.
Or maybe they decided not to make a Dragon warlock on account of wanting to give the dragon-themed subclasses to someone else.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That could be neat. Maybe they fear it'd have too much overlap with draconic bloodline sorc, both being cha casters and all? But then it's not like subclasses have never had thematic overlap before.
"Dragon" might just be too diverse to be represented as a single type of patron. Easier to pick one of the existing ones and flavour as desired. The Undead references a dracolich specifically, but really any of the patron options could be draconic in nature if you want it to be.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Fathomless could work for an aquatic dragon, and Fiend could work for a red dragon.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Though I really want a Dragon-Patron subclass for Warlocks, I could see some reflavoring working for certain types of dragons with the existing Warlock subclasses. For example:
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I like how people think that Dragons are too diverse for Warlocks but just fine for Sorcerers, Monks and Rangers.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You could definitely make a warlock subclass around dragons. I think they may have gone for monk/ranger though to add more diversity to the classes with dragon themed subclasses. One focusing on a pet and another working it into martial combat instead of spellcasting.
A draconic patron for warlocks makes sense. But at the same time, giving rangers a dragon pet and the whole dragon monk martial combat thing are both more interesting to me than a second cha caster themed around dragons. That's not to say it wouldn't work or wouldn't be interesting, or that you couldn't do it in a way that feels distinct from dragon blood sorc. But, IMO, the options we got are more interesting. Especially the monk one.