Fundamentally, it's inappropriate and possibly in the EU, outright illegal, to do non-refundable pre-orders on a product you apparently do not even know the nature of - i.e. you're awaiting instructions (if I understand correctly). Am I misunderstanding and the pre-orders are refundable? If not DDB would do well to either prevent EU pre-orders or stop offering pre-orders at all until the product is known.
I am not the person with whom to direct this speculation to, I'm just a moderator. I'm sure those in charge for handing such things are aware of the legal specifics
Fundamentally, it's inappropriate and possibly in the EU, outright illegal, to do non-refundable pre-orders on a product you apparently do not even know the nature of - i.e. you're awaiting instructions (if I understand correctly). Am I misunderstanding and the pre-orders are refundable? If not DDB would do well to either prevent EU pre-orders or stop offering pre-orders at all until the product is known.
I am not the person with whom to direct this speculation to, I'm just a moderator. I'm sure those in charge for handing such things are aware of the legal specifics
If the pre-orders are non-refundable, it's not speculation. Indeed, DDB is just waiting to get sued in the EU, essentially. IANAL but I was a legal researcher.
Either way, it's hard to see how you can ethically or morally defend allowing people to place non-refundable pre-orders on a product that apparently in "those in charge" are still in the dark about (at least re: how it operates).
Thanks for the ongoing discussion and the questions being raised here. I can understand the frustration some of you are feeling about not knowing precisely how this title is going to be implemented on D&D Beyond, or how (if at all) it will impact existing material. I can also understand how in the face of that 'not knowing' that it's tempting to roll some Investigation and Insight checks to try and figure it out yourself. I can't fault anyone for it, since I've definitely done it myself for things I love, too.
Currently I (and the rest of the folks here at DDB, including our hard-working moderation team) can't speak to the exact details and answers you're seeking--I know that's not a satisfying response, but it's all I can offer just at this moment. Rest assured we are working closely with our partners at Wizards of the Coast to align our goals for you as our community and userbase, and their expectations for this exciting new product that they're preparing to launch. As we reach a point where we're confident about all of the details and certain about what we can reveal in advance of the product's launch, we will absolutely share it with you all here, in our article content, on our social media channels, and on our video content.
Again, I know that "more information is coming" is hardly a satisfying answer, but I hope you'll grant us the patience to make sure that those details are just right both for our partners at WOTC, and for you all right here on DDB.
The marketing is strong here. I won't be buying this product, but I certainly hope DDB and WotC are going to let users choose which version of the races and monsters to use.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
We’ve seen how Beyond is willing to sell us essentially the same book twice with the two Eberron books, with no discount on previously purchased material provided because it’s a “new book.” We’ve also seen that their go-to move for content updates like this is to overwrite old content. I fully expect those things to hold true for M3, so I won’t be buying it until I’ve seen it’s got content worth buying.
In semi-related news, I also am upset that Beyond is apparently not doing sales on pre-order content anymore. I’d have ordered Netherdeep a long time ago if it had gone on sale. I don’t care much about the little preorder trinkets (that are starting to get a bit repetitive anyway) enough to preorder something that’s not on sale and that I very likely will be getting for free via content overwrites.
So. An update, from a very rare sojourn into the hostile wasteland that is the DDB Discord server, delivered straight from the mods there and the "In The Know" users over there:
The DDB dev team doesn't know squat, and they are not going to answer us. They don't want us asking questions, they don't like us starting threads like this, and none of us are supposed to express any sort of discontent, doubt, or irritation with this whole process. We are, instead, supposed to calmly preorder M3 like good customers and hand over our money sight unseen without one single complaint or concern, and also have our entire comment chain deleted because we dared to speak up.
Cool.
And to think I was legit thinking of nabbing Netherdeep a few days ago just for the shinies, even if I don't intend to run the adventure. Nuts to that shit. You get to earn your wallet cookies now, DDB. You wanna pull this shit with me, I'll go as Karen as I have to in order to prove my point.
This. Is. Scummy. It's bad business, and I don't ******* care if Wizards is telling you to do it. Tell them it's bad business and you won't do it to your customers or catch the same shit they're catching over it.
I'm going to address this specifically:
No one has been told to 'stop asking questions'. Questions are welcome, as long as the person asking them is civil. There is no room for rudeness, be it here or on the discord server
If we did not like threads like this one existing, we would make it known. However, the moderation team has no issue with people expressing their opinions on the matter. It's valuable to D&D Beyond as a company to have these discussions happen.
Discontent, doubt, irritation, aggravation, grievances, misgivings, uncertainties, worries, concerns, or any other feelings are again, more than welcome as long as (you guessed it), you follow the site rules.
No one is expected or obligated to pre-order or purchase anything. It's your money and spend it how you see fit, when you see fit.
Nothing that does not break the rules has been deleted here or in the discord server. No comment chains were removed, let alone because anyone "dared to speak up"
As for the discord being a 'hostile wasteland', as a member of the moderation team that devotes a lot of their time to both the forums and the discord, it is no more or less a hostile wasteland than the forums are. Make of that what you will, but I assure you that mods involved putting in a lot of work across all of D&D Beyonds community and social spaces making them as welcoming as possible. We are but human and can only do so much in the face of disruptive presences.
Davyd, you're making this worse by coming in here and spending your time defending the discord's image instead of actually addressing the concerns. I understand that you're likely just a forum/discord mod and have no other info on stuff behind the scenes, but gods you're doing terrible with collateral.
I have no interest in M3. They (WoTC) can keep it. I also think it's sad they (WoTC) are making people pay for a bundle or wait for a few months to get it as a stand alone.
As someone who loves this site and will probably skip buying this book, the lack of updates are disturbing and the communication leaves much to be desired. It's one thing to not have concrete answers before a product is launched. But when a product is being advertised for pre-orders, contains quite a bit of reused/updated from past content and has no info on how that will affect what owners currently use.... this just doesn't sit right with me.
I completely understand why D&D Beyond needs to update everything in line with what WotC produces. But the way the release of this book is being handled is just poor.
As someone who wants this site to continue being awesome, I would still strongly advise anyone NOT to buy this until more details are confirmed.
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
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Thanks for the ongoing discussion and the questions being raised here. I can understand the frustration some of you are feeling about not knowing precisely how this title is going to be implemented on D&D Beyond, or how (if at all) it will impact existing material. I can also understand how in the face of that 'not knowing' that it's tempting to roll some Investigation and Insight checks to try and figure it out yourself. I can't fault anyone for it, since I've definitely done it myself for things I love, too.
Currently I (and the rest of the folks here at DDB, including our hard-working moderation team) can't speak to the exact details and answers you're seeking--I know that's not a satisfying response, but it's all I can offer just at this moment. Rest assured we are working closely with our partners at Wizards of the Coast to align our goals for you as our community and userbase, and their expectations for this exciting new product that they're preparing to launch. As we reach a point where we're confident about all of the details and certain about what we can reveal in advance of the product's launch, we will absolutely share it with you all here, in our article content, on our social media channels, and on our video content.
Again, I know that "more information is coming" is hardly a satisfying answer, but I hope you'll grant us the patience to make sure that those details are just right both for our partners at WOTC, and for you all right here on DDB.
It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: WOTC sort of screwed up and didn't think about the implications of revising hundreds of monster stats that many people had paid for on DDB, and they're scrambling to figure out what to do....and DDB is, due to NDAs and a desire to keep earning money from licensing, not allowed to say squat.
It's also next to impossible for me to not feel more than a bit aggravated by both parties not answering a very direct and straightforward question about the stats for current monsters. While I still think this ultimately points to poor planning, it most definitely registers as near contempt for the customers. We want to know what we're buying.This is not an unreasonable request.
Thanks for the ongoing discussion and the questions being raised here. I can understand the frustration some of you are feeling about not knowing precisely how this title is going to be implemented on D&D Beyond, or how (if at all) it will impact existing material. I can also understand how in the face of that 'not knowing' that it's tempting to roll some Investigation and Insight checks to try and figure it out yourself. I can't fault anyone for it, since I've definitely done it myself for things I love, too.
Currently I (and the rest of the folks here at DDB, including our hard-working moderation team) can't speak to the exact details and answers you're seeking--I know that's not a satisfying response, but it's all I can offer just at this moment. Rest assured we are working closely with our partners at Wizards of the Coast to align our goals for you as our community and userbase, and their expectations for this exciting new product that they're preparing to launch. As we reach a point where we're confident about all of the details and certain about what we can reveal in advance of the product's launch, we will absolutely share it with you all here, in our article content, on our social media channels, and on our video content.
Again, I know that "more information is coming" is hardly a satisfying answer, but I hope you'll grant us the patience to make sure that those details are just right both for our partners at WOTC, and for you all right here on DDB.
It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: WOTC sort of screwed up and didn't think about the implications of revising hundreds of monster stats that many people had paid for on DDB, and they're scrambling to figure out what to do....and DDB is, due to NDAs and a desire to keep earning money from licensing, not allowed to say squat.
It's also next to impossible for me to not feel more than a bit aggravated by both parties not answering a very direct and straightforward question about the stats for current monsters. While I still think this ultimately points to poor planning, it most definitely registers as near contempt for the customers. We want to know what we're buying.This is not an unreasonable request.
Right, so now that you have a response from someone in "charge", you have your answer.
Right now, you don't know what you are buying and you
should NOT buy it.
Now comes the ethical question from D&D Beyond, since they have no idea what they're selling, the responsible thing to do would be to stop selling it. SInce you cannot say what product will or won't be given, you shouldn't sell it.
Thanks for the ongoing discussion and the questions being raised here. I can understand the frustration some of you are feeling about not knowing precisely how this title is going to be implemented on D&D Beyond, or how (if at all) it will impact existing material. I can also understand how in the face of that 'not knowing' that it's tempting to roll some Investigation and Insight checks to try and figure it out yourself. I can't fault anyone for it, since I've definitely done it myself for things I love, too.
Currently I (and the rest of the folks here at DDB, including our hard-working moderation team) can't speak to the exact details and answers you're seeking--I know that's not a satisfying response, but it's all I can offer just at this moment. Rest assured we are working closely with our partners at Wizards of the Coast to align our goals for you as our community and userbase, and their expectations for this exciting new product that they're preparing to launch. As we reach a point where we're confident about all of the details and certain about what we can reveal in advance of the product's launch, we will absolutely share it with you all here, in our article content, on our social media channels, and on our video content.
Again, I know that "more information is coming" is hardly a satisfying answer, but I hope you'll grant us the patience to make sure that those details are just right both for our partners at WOTC, and for you all right here on DDB.
Thank you MellieDM,
I can only speak for myself, but better an unsatisfying answer than none at all. I at least would rather read what boils down to “I can’t tell youse what’s up yet, because WotC hasn’t told us what to tell you yet” than nothing. It’s honest, and it directly acknowledges the questions being asked. However, that direct honesty sooner, could very likely have prevented much of the frustration.
Like I said, I can’t speak for anyone else out there, but there are 8,000,000,000 people on the planet, and 9.3 million of them are members here. If only ½% of them are like me, that’s still 46,500 DDB Users. How many of us here might instead be telling people to calm their bananas down over this instead of ordering pitchforks and fresh torches off of Amazon (at your front door in 48 hours with Prime 😉).
I'm with the others. If you can't tell me what you're selling, you shouldn't be selling it.
I'll outline the one circumstance where someone should preorder this book on this site, based on what little knowledge of its implementation from the Staff of the site site that we currently have:
If you don't own both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, and you want the races and monsters contained in both of them.
Now, I'll outline the circumstances where you almost definitely shouldn't buy this book based on what we know right now:
If you own both Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes on this site.
If you own either Volo's Guide to Monsters or Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, and don't want to buy the book without knowing if you'll get a discount for already owning half the book.
If you don't own either Volo's or Mordenkainens, but don't like the current confusion over how the book will be implemented on the site.
If you don't like the new changes to how D&D 5e is treating racial abilities and/or monster stat blocks. (I personally like most of these changes, but it is an absolutely valid reason to not buy this book.)
I'm not buying this book on this site, at least until we know how it will be implemented (depending on how it will be, I very possibly won't even then). And I recommend that all of you that already own Volo's and/or Mordenkainen's already do the same. We need to know how it's going to be implemented on this site before we buy it. The site really should not be selling it without us having this major piece of information.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Well, a member of the normally silent majority speaks up to say the quiet part out loud .... (After quaffing a Potion of Fire Resistance to resist flame damage)
1) It will almost certainly be like Eberron: Rising from the Last War: a new purchase for a lot of similar content that a large team of people spent a lot of time and work to update.
2) If you liked the way things were before, you can still play with those rules at your table. Just make a few notes or even add it to your private homebrew collection on the site.
3) I would of course be delighted to find out that the stats and systems for everything was updated for free, and I think that may happen, but I very much doubt the old versions will be left behind. If you want things set in stone I guess you need to buy the physical books. This game and this website is not engraved in stone tablets received atop Mount Horeb.
4) To be completely honest, even if stats are updated free, I'm still going to end up purchasing the book. I want access to all the new lore, art, etc. I want the book for the book as a whole, and yes it does feel a little like I'm getting rolled, but I enjoyed playing with the old books for the last two years and I've gotten value out of them, just as I will get value out of the new book for years to come.
5) I think it's a great addition for some of the players at my table that did not buy in before as a chance to round out their collection.
6) This is my main hobby, and I've paid a lot more over the years for much smaller updates to MMOs, etc., in the form of subscriptions, micropayments and expansion packs. The cost factor is relatively low considering the hours I pour into this hobby.
So in the end, I'm excited for the release. I will be preordering it. I wish the team would just say this part out loud to make it clear, even if there's some blowback. Better to do it all at once than stretch it out. Perhaps they are negotiating for something better and that's why they've been waiting, but I don't hold my breath on getting a better deal than the preorder discount or other sales. Sorry folks. That's the hard truth. Looking forward to adding to my salt collection.
Thanks for the ongoing discussion and the questions being raised here. I can understand the frustration some of you are feeling about not knowing precisely how this title is going to be implemented on D&D Beyond, or how (if at all) it will impact existing material. I can also understand how in the face of that 'not knowing' that it's tempting to roll some Investigation and Insight checks to try and figure it out yourself. I can't fault anyone for it, since I've definitely done it myself for things I love, too.
Currently I (and the rest of the folks here at DDB, including our hard-working moderation team) can't speak to the exact details and answers you're seeking--I know that's not a satisfying response, but it's all I can offer just at this moment. Rest assured we are working closely with our partners at Wizards of the Coast to align our goals for you as our community and userbase, and their expectations for this exciting new product that they're preparing to launch. As we reach a point where we're confident about all of the details and certain about what we can reveal in advance of the product's launch, we will absolutely share it with you all here, in our article content, on our social media channels, and on our video content.
Again, I know that "more information is coming" is hardly a satisfying answer, but I hope you'll grant us the patience to make sure that those details are just right both for our partners at WOTC, and for you all right here on DDB.
Thank you for this answer. In response, I'd like to request that any monster whose stat block is updated in Monsters of the Multiverse be retained on the site in its original form as well as the new Multiverse form for the benefit of DMs who own Volo's and/or Mordenkainen's in print editions and need their DDB content to match up for gameplay reasons. It's one thing to buy DDB content that duplicates material we already have in print—we've been (mostly) happily doing that for a long time now. It's another to have DDB content change in such a way that it can't be used with the print material we already own, for reasons beyond simple errata.
Also, being able to compare old and new versions side by side onscreen would actually be a really useful tool.
Thanks for the ongoing discussion and the questions being raised here. I can understand the frustration some of you are feeling about not knowing precisely how this title is going to be implemented on D&D Beyond, or how (if at all) it will impact existing material. I can also understand how in the face of that 'not knowing' that it's tempting to roll some Investigation and Insight checks to try and figure it out yourself. I can't fault anyone for it, since I've definitely done it myself for things I love, too.
Currently I (and the rest of the folks here at DDB, including our hard-working moderation team) can't speak to the exact details and answers you're seeking--I know that's not a satisfying response, but it's all I can offer just at this moment. Rest assured we are working closely with our partners at Wizards of the Coast to align our goals for you as our community and userbase, and their expectations for this exciting new product that they're preparing to launch. As we reach a point where we're confident about all of the details and certain about what we can reveal in advance of the product's launch, we will absolutely share it with you all here, in our article content, on our social media channels, and on our video content.
Again, I know that "more information is coming" is hardly a satisfying answer, but I hope you'll grant us the patience to make sure that those details are just right both for our partners at WOTC, and for you all right here on DDB.
Thank you for the update. I look forward to the next one and appreciate what you all do on DDB.
We are not asking for details. The question is very simple: Will the existing content be updated, or will the only way to get the updated versions be via purchasing the new product?
We are not asking about a timeline or anything like that. But it sounds like what you are saying is that you put the product out for sale without having the most basic idea of how you will implement this. What you seem to be saying is that you can't answer because you don't know.
And you should be able to appreciate why that is not merely unsatisfactory, but a highly unreasonable business practice. I am a realtor (DRE01947142). If I took a non refundable payment for a new home, but when asked if it was going to be a condo or a house the answer was "I haven't decided yet" I would lose my license. Its a completely unreasonable thing to do. You are not a kickstarter. People are not investing in your business. We are you customers. If you can't even say roughly what service you are selling, then that isn't a sale.
Mellie, I understand that this is not your personal choice. However, the people who have made the choice have also chosen to ONLY receive communication from customers via this forum. So they have also put you in the unfortunate position of bearing the brunt of their decisions. If you would prefer that our collective outrage directed at the people who do make the decisions, I am sure that we are happy to communicate with them directly.
If Dndbeyond wants to stop antagonizing your clients, then you (collectively) need to stop making apologies or excuses. You need to open up with more transparency, or at least be clear about WHY you are not being transparent.
So, the acknowledgement is appreciated but it is a far cry from an acceptable response or a reasonable or fair business practice.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but isn't DNDBeyond more of a service than a product? Or if it is a product, wouldn't it be considered a live product like all other websites?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I can't wait for the Dev Update to get cancelled within 30 minutes this week.
It's important to note that Joe and Mellie do their upmost to keep the dev update on each week and only cancel due to scheduling conflicts (both Joe and Mellie have a lot of responsibilities outside of the dev update) or unforeseen circumstances. And if the dev update is cancelled, Mellie tries to announce this as soon as possible.
I can't wait for the Dev Update to get cancelled within 30 minutes this week.
It's important to note that Joe and Mellie do their upmost to keep the dev update on each week and only cancel due to scheduling conflicts (both Joe and Mellie have a lot of responsibilities outside of the dev update) or unforeseen circumstances. And if the dev update is cancelled, Mellie tries to announce this as soon as possible.
No, it's important to note that in the month of Jan, we are 0/2 for Dev Updates. Whenit is cancelled, there is a twitter post 30 minutes prior.
I am not the person with whom to direct this speculation to, I'm just a moderator. I'm sure those in charge for handing such things are aware of the legal specifics
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
If the pre-orders are non-refundable, it's not speculation. Indeed, DDB is just waiting to get sued in the EU, essentially. IANAL but I was a legal researcher.
Either way, it's hard to see how you can ethically or morally defend allowing people to place non-refundable pre-orders on a product that apparently in "those in charge" are still in the dark about (at least re: how it operates).
The marketing is strong here. I won't be buying this product, but I certainly hope DDB and WotC are going to let users choose which version of the races and monsters to use.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
We’ve seen how Beyond is willing to sell us essentially the same book twice with the two Eberron books, with no discount on previously purchased material provided because it’s a “new book.” We’ve also seen that their go-to move for content updates like this is to overwrite old content. I fully expect those things to hold true for M3, so I won’t be buying it until I’ve seen it’s got content worth buying.
In semi-related news, I also am upset that Beyond is apparently not doing sales on pre-order content anymore. I’d have ordered Netherdeep a long time ago if it had gone on sale. I don’t care much about the little preorder trinkets (that are starting to get a bit repetitive anyway) enough to preorder something that’s not on sale and that I very likely will be getting for free via content overwrites.
Davyd, you're making this worse by coming in here and spending your time defending the discord's image instead of actually addressing the concerns. I understand that you're likely just a forum/discord mod and have no other info on stuff behind the scenes, but gods you're doing terrible with collateral.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
I have no interest in M3. They (WoTC) can keep it. I also think it's sad they (WoTC) are making people pay for a bundle or wait for a few months to get it as a stand alone.
I can see the book getting a toggle for the player races just like Tashas did for changing your stat options
As someone who loves this site and will probably skip buying this book, the lack of updates are disturbing and the communication leaves much to be desired. It's one thing to not have concrete answers before a product is launched. But when a product is being advertised for pre-orders, contains quite a bit of reused/updated from past content and has no info on how that will affect what owners currently use.... this just doesn't sit right with me.
I completely understand why D&D Beyond needs to update everything in line with what WotC produces. But the way the release of this book is being handled is just poor.
As someone who wants this site to continue being awesome, I would still strongly advise anyone NOT to buy this until more details are confirmed.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
It's hard for me to read this and not translate it as: WOTC sort of screwed up and didn't think about the implications of revising hundreds of monster stats that many people had paid for on DDB, and they're scrambling to figure out what to do....and DDB is, due to NDAs and a desire to keep earning money from licensing, not allowed to say squat.
It's also next to impossible for me to not feel more than a bit aggravated by both parties not answering a very direct and straightforward question about the stats for current monsters. While I still think this ultimately points to poor planning, it most definitely registers as near contempt for the customers. We want to know what we're buying. This is not an unreasonable request.
Right, so now that you have a response from someone in "charge", you have your answer.
Right now, you don't know what you are buying and you
should NOT buy it.
Now comes the ethical question from D&D Beyond, since they have no idea what they're selling, the responsible thing to do would be to stop selling it. SInce you cannot say what product will or won't be given, you shouldn't sell it.
Thank you MellieDM,
I can only speak for myself, but better an unsatisfying answer than none at all. I at least would rather read what boils down to “I can’t tell youse what’s up yet, because WotC hasn’t told us what to tell you yet” than nothing. It’s honest, and it directly acknowledges the questions being asked. However, that direct honesty sooner, could very likely have prevented much of the frustration.
Like I said, I can’t speak for anyone else out there, but there are 8,000,000,000 people on the planet, and 9.3 million of them are members here. If only ½% of them are like me, that’s still 46,500 DDB Users. How many of us here might instead be telling people to calm their bananas down over this instead of ordering pitchforks and fresh torches off of Amazon (at your front door in 48 hours with Prime 😉).
Again, thank you very much. 🙏
Most Sincerely,
Sposta
🦄
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I'm with the others. If you can't tell me what you're selling, you shouldn't be selling it.
I'll outline the one circumstance where someone should preorder this book on this site, based on what little knowledge of its implementation from the Staff of the site site that we currently have:
Now, I'll outline the circumstances where you almost definitely shouldn't buy this book based on what we know right now:
I'm not buying this book on this site, at least until we know how it will be implemented (depending on how it will be, I very possibly won't even then). And I recommend that all of you that already own Volo's and/or Mordenkainen's already do the same. We need to know how it's going to be implemented on this site before we buy it. The site really should not be selling it without us having this major piece of information.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Well, a member of the normally silent majority speaks up to say the quiet part out loud .... (After quaffing a Potion of Fire Resistance to resist flame damage)
1) It will almost certainly be like Eberron: Rising from the Last War: a new purchase for a lot of similar content that a large team of people spent a lot of time and work to update.
2) If you liked the way things were before, you can still play with those rules at your table. Just make a few notes or even add it to your private homebrew collection on the site.
3) I would of course be delighted to find out that the stats and systems for everything was updated for free, and I think that may happen, but I very much doubt the old versions will be left behind. If you want things set in stone I guess you need to buy the physical books. This game and this website is not engraved in stone tablets received atop Mount Horeb.
4) To be completely honest, even if stats are updated free, I'm still going to end up purchasing the book. I want access to all the new lore, art, etc. I want the book for the book as a whole, and yes it does feel a little like I'm getting rolled, but I enjoyed playing with the old books for the last two years and I've gotten value out of them, just as I will get value out of the new book for years to come.
5) I think it's a great addition for some of the players at my table that did not buy in before as a chance to round out their collection.
6) This is my main hobby, and I've paid a lot more over the years for much smaller updates to MMOs, etc., in the form of subscriptions, micropayments and expansion packs. The cost factor is relatively low considering the hours I pour into this hobby.
So in the end, I'm excited for the release. I will be preordering it. I wish the team would just say this part out loud to make it clear, even if there's some blowback. Better to do it all at once than stretch it out. Perhaps they are negotiating for something better and that's why they've been waiting, but I don't hold my breath on getting a better deal than the preorder discount or other sales. Sorry folks. That's the hard truth. Looking forward to adding to my salt collection.
Thank you for this answer. In response, I'd like to request that any monster whose stat block is updated in Monsters of the Multiverse be retained on the site in its original form as well as the new Multiverse form for the benefit of DMs who own Volo's and/or Mordenkainen's in print editions and need their DDB content to match up for gameplay reasons. It's one thing to buy DDB content that duplicates material we already have in print—we've been (mostly) happily doing that for a long time now. It's another to have DDB content change in such a way that it can't be used with the print material we already own, for reasons beyond simple errata.
Also, being able to compare old and new versions side by side onscreen would actually be a really useful tool.
Author of The Monsters Know What They're Doing: Combat Tactics for Dungeon Masters, MOAR! Monsters Know What They're Doing, How to Defend Your Lair and Making Enemies: Monster Design Inspiration for Tabletop Roleplaying Games.
Thank you for the update. I look forward to the next one and appreciate what you all do on DDB.
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Well, some response is better than none.
But, how about "Why" you can't answer.
We are not asking for details. The question is very simple: Will the existing content be updated, or will the only way to get the updated versions be via purchasing the new product?
We are not asking about a timeline or anything like that. But it sounds like what you are saying is that you put the product out for sale without having the most basic idea of how you will implement this. What you seem to be saying is that you can't answer because you don't know.
And you should be able to appreciate why that is not merely unsatisfactory, but a highly unreasonable business practice. I am a realtor (DRE01947142). If I took a non refundable payment for a new home, but when asked if it was going to be a condo or a house the answer was "I haven't decided yet" I would lose my license. Its a completely unreasonable thing to do. You are not a kickstarter. People are not investing in your business. We are you customers. If you can't even say roughly what service you are selling, then that isn't a sale.
Mellie, I understand that this is not your personal choice. However, the people who have made the choice have also chosen to ONLY receive communication from customers via this forum. So they have also put you in the unfortunate position of bearing the brunt of their decisions. If you would prefer that our collective outrage directed at the people who do make the decisions, I am sure that we are happy to communicate with them directly.
If Dndbeyond wants to stop antagonizing your clients, then you (collectively) need to stop making apologies or excuses. You need to open up with more transparency, or at least be clear about WHY you are not being transparent.
So, the acknowledgement is appreciated but it is a far cry from an acceptable response or a reasonable or fair business practice.
I don't know if it makes a difference, but isn't DNDBeyond more of a service than a product? Or if it is a product, wouldn't it be considered a live product like all other websites?
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alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
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To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I can't wait for the Dev Update to get cancelled within 30 minutes this week.
It's important to note that Joe and Mellie do their upmost to keep the dev update on each week and only cancel due to scheduling conflicts (both Joe and Mellie have a lot of responsibilities outside of the dev update) or unforeseen circumstances. And if the dev update is cancelled, Mellie tries to announce this as soon as possible.
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No, it's important to note that in the month of Jan, we are 0/2 for Dev Updates. When it is cancelled, there is a twitter post 30 minutes prior.