Flails aren't exactly super practical either but made it in anyway.
Flails are very practical, that’s why they were used IRL. The centrifugal force applied by the chain is a force multiplier, and it has the added benefit of being able to get around a shield. Plus, against an opponent in plate armor, the bludgeoning damage caused by a flail can crush a person in their armor where a sword would struggle to find a gap.
I do agree with you about reflavoring an existing weapon as a scythe however, probably a greataxe* or halberd.
*Now, you wanna talk about an impractical weapon, a Greataxe is impractical, that’s why nobody ever used one IRL.
To be fair, despite many and more modern-culture references, short flails were rare and many experts and historians doubt if they ever really existed in a practical sense. The long polearm like peasant flail is a thing, though.
Several pieces of art show flails in the ball and chain version. There are examples that can be found in museums as well.
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Flails aren't exactly super practical either but made it in anyway.
Flails are very practical, that’s why they were used IRL. The centrifugal force applied by the chain is a force multiplier, and it has the added benefit of being able to get around a shield. Plus, against an opponent in plate armor, the bludgeoning damage caused by a flail can crush a person in their armor where a sword would struggle to find a gap.
I do agree with you about reflavoring an existing weapon as a scythe however, probably a greataxe* or halberd.
*Now, you wanna talk about an impractical weapon, a Greataxe is impractical, that’s why nobody ever used one IRL.
To be fair, despite many and more modern-culture references, short flails were rare and many experts and historians doubt if they ever really existed in a practical sense. The long polearm like peasant flail is a thing, though.
Several pieces of art show flails in the ball and chain version. There are examples that can be found in museums as well.
Yes, but both the art and most of the museum specimens only date back to the 15th Century, well after they were supposed to have been in use. It's considered probable that artists in the 15th Century confused the flail with the morning star or simply made up the weapon.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I am in favour of the "reflavour the greatclub" approach here. The stats are already a part of the game (except for being slashing not bludgeoning) so it won't risk people thinking it's overpowered, whilst it still remains effective enough to be worth using.
I would allow basically any justified weapon to be reflavoured for this, because my personal opinion is that the choice of weapon A: doesn't have enough of an impact to truly matter, and B: is far better left as flavour than as hard rules.
Personally, I would prefer to simply see melee weapons much more standardised; have "light", "Medium", "heavy" "Versatile", "2-handed", "Polearm" as options, with the addition of a "reach" option for the Light weapon. Have them deal your choice of damage as justified by the weapon you're using, by an amount as defined by their type - EG, light = 1d4, medium = 1d6, heavy = 1d8, versatile = 1d8/1d10, 2-handed = 1d12, polearm = 1d10+reach.
EG, you want a cross-shaped blade on a chain that you can whip at people, you go for the "reach" option for 1d4 slashing damage plus reach.
That way reflavouring the weapons is built in anyway - you can give examples, EG a warhammer is a versatile weapon which deal bludgeoning damage. You can scrap the "Martial" and "Non-Martial" and just let people flavour the weapon they want their character to have as a damage amount and type, and then have the classes proficient in weapon types (EG "a druid is proficient in Light and medium weapons", and let them flavour those weapons into anything they like).
You're talking to people you don't know, on a website that exists through lines of code, in an imaginary space known as the internet, about a game that isn't real in worlds that don't exist. Use and call it whatever the hell you want. Have fun with and pull up some awesome picks of video game badasses slaying demons with their Scintillating Scythe of the Scion.
FWIW, All those things of the world Blue Oyster Cult proclaim have no fear for the Reaper do so insofar as they have no fear of the farm implement in his hand.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I am in favour of the "reflavour the greatclub" approach here. The stats are already a part of the game (except for being slashing not bludgeoning) so it won't risk people thinking it's overpowered, whilst it still remains effective enough to be worth using.
Yeah, I basically just reflavored the double scimitar and just made it heavy more or less.
Actually the Deathpact Angel uses a Scythe as a weapon in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. DeathPact Angels are Medium size creatures and from the looks of things their scythes have the Finesse property in addition to the Reach property and deal 2D4 damage on a hit. An argument could go either way if it's a improvised weapon or a simple weapon. Personally I'd go with scythes being simple weapons, weigh about 6 pounds, Deal 2D4 slashing damage, and have the Reach, Finesse, and Two-Handed Properties since we sort of have something resembling stats for it and there are no simple weapons that have the reach property currently.
As it is, the Scythe wouldn't benefit from either the Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master feats. Meaning that most martial characters are going to pass them up in favor of actual martial weapons. Fighting styles would also hardly play a role in Scythe use as well. Rangers don't get Great Weapon Fighting. Fighters and Paladins do have access to Great Weapon Fighting, but it's honestly better spent on a Maul or Greatsword. Barbarians could use the scythe to some effect I guess but it is a bad fit for their Brutal Critical feature. Monks could use the scythe pretty well and would be rather fitting with the whole ninja farming tool turned into a makeshift weapon. So I guess that leaves Rogues another weapon for Sneak Attack and if I'm being honest, the scythe isn't doing anything that isn't already being done by the Rapier or Light Crossbow.
Even though Shinobi used sickles in Japan that doesn't make them effective weapons though. Sickles are just about as improvised of weapons as you can get but since they were bladed farm tools and as such were able to slip through the cracks when commoners were banned from owning Swords and other bladed weapons. So anything with a blade was better than nothing but that still doesn't counter the fact that historically, tools designed for combat are always going to be better in combat than tools designed for farming, construction, and house chores.
That's something I've never liked. As PC's will often try to pick up a defeated enemies weapon only to find out it doesn't work. I get it with things which may be magic based, but it happens with mundane stuff too.
When your player lizardfolk tries to pick up a spiky shield from a defeated lizardfolk, but can't use it as it's an NPC weapon, it's super jarring and makes it feel like the characters aren't part of the world.
That's something I've never liked. As PC's will often try to pick up a defeated enemies weapon only to find out it doesn't work. I get it with things which may be magic based, but it happens with mundane stuff too.
When your player lizardfolk tries to pick up a spiky shield from a defeated lizardfolk, but can't use it as it's an NPC weapon, it's super jarring and makes it feel like the characters aren't part of the world.
I would totally let that Lizardfolk PC use a spiked shield. I would also let a PC use a deathpact angel’s scythe too, I would just drop the finesse property and give it heavy instead. And it wouldn’t deal necrotic damage nor have reach as those would be inherent to the Angel IMO (like a bugbear has extra reach as a Medium creature).
That's something I've never liked. As PC's will often try to pick up a defeated enemies weapon only to find out it doesn't work. I get it with things which may be magic based, but it happens with mundane stuff too.
When your player lizardfolk tries to pick up a spiky shield from a defeated lizardfolk, but can't use it as it's an NPC weapon, it's super jarring and makes it feel like the characters aren't part of the world.
Limiting the entire fantasy world to PC options would be terrible for the game. Like really, really bad.
The lizardfolk can use that spiked shield because they have trained with it their entire lives. The very few things any given monster can do is the equivalent of a PC's class. The fighter can't use a spiked shield in exactly the same way the wizard can't use the fighter's greatsword - they just haven't learned how. The characters are part of the world, but they are not the ENTIRE world. Having things exist that they aren't automatically masters at is more realistic, not less.
Third Edition was the only edition of D&D that tried to make PCs and NPCs follow the same rules for character creation and equipment. There's a reason that 5th Edition doesn't do that- trying to tie monster statblocks to PC rules made for horribly complex and cluttered statblocks.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You're talking to people you don't know, on a website that exists through lines of code, in an imaginary space known as the internet, about a game that isn't real in worlds that don't exist. Use and call it whatever the hell you want. Have fun with and pull up some awesome picks of video game badasses slaying demons with their Scintillating Scythe of the Scion.
This is the answer you were looking for OP. People worrying about realism when we're playing a game about dragons, elves and demons is comical to me. Use one of the reskins that they made above and call it a day.
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If you're using a 1h scythe I'd use a sickle, if you're wanting a big 2h grim reaper style scythe I'd talk to your DM about maybe re-flavoring an existing simple or martial weapon if they're open to it. I'd be fine with letting you say, pick a reasonably close simple or martial weapon, changing the damage type to slashing, and letting you re-flavor that as a scythe close enough to the weapon you're copying in size. But some DMs may be more strict on that sort of thing so it's really between the two of you.
Maybe if you want it ti be grim reaper style make it a magic item and make it do necrotic damage.
For IRL utility, no. For the purposes of "big sharp thing on a stick I slice people up with" in a game that real life weapon principles has on its permanent hate mail list, yes.
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Don't know about this but reflavour does numbers
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
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Several pieces of art show flails in the ball and chain version. There are examples that can be found in museums as well.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yes, but both the art and most of the museum specimens only date back to the 15th Century, well after they were supposed to have been in use. It's considered probable that artists in the 15th Century confused the flail with the morning star or simply made up the weapon.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I am in favour of the "reflavour the greatclub" approach here. The stats are already a part of the game (except for being slashing not bludgeoning) so it won't risk people thinking it's overpowered, whilst it still remains effective enough to be worth using.
I would allow basically any justified weapon to be reflavoured for this, because my personal opinion is that the choice of weapon A: doesn't have enough of an impact to truly matter, and B: is far better left as flavour than as hard rules.
Personally, I would prefer to simply see melee weapons much more standardised; have "light", "Medium", "heavy" "Versatile", "2-handed", "Polearm" as options, with the addition of a "reach" option for the Light weapon. Have them deal your choice of damage as justified by the weapon you're using, by an amount as defined by their type - EG, light = 1d4, medium = 1d6, heavy = 1d8, versatile = 1d8/1d10, 2-handed = 1d12, polearm = 1d10+reach.
EG, you want a cross-shaped blade on a chain that you can whip at people, you go for the "reach" option for 1d4 slashing damage plus reach.
That way reflavouring the weapons is built in anyway - you can give examples, EG a warhammer is a versatile weapon which deal bludgeoning damage. You can scrap the "Martial" and "Non-Martial" and just let people flavour the weapon they want their character to have as a damage amount and type, and then have the classes proficient in weapon types (EG "a druid is proficient in Light and medium weapons", and let them flavour those weapons into anything they like).
But that's perhaps just my opinion!
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You're talking to people you don't know, on a website that exists through lines of code, in an imaginary space known as the internet, about a game that isn't real in worlds that don't exist. Use and call it whatever the hell you want. Have fun with and pull up some awesome picks of video game badasses slaying demons with their Scintillating Scythe of the Scion.
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This has been discussed before:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/general-discussion/84245-scythes
FWIW, All those things of the world Blue Oyster Cult proclaim have no fear for the Reaper do so insofar as they have no fear of the farm implement in his hand.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yeah, I basically just reflavored the double scimitar and just made it heavy more or less.
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Actually the Deathpact Angel uses a Scythe as a weapon in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. DeathPact Angels are Medium size creatures and from the looks of things their scythes have the Finesse property in addition to the Reach property and deal 2D4 damage on a hit. An argument could go either way if it's a improvised weapon or a simple weapon. Personally I'd go with scythes being simple weapons, weigh about 6 pounds, Deal 2D4 slashing damage, and have the Reach, Finesse, and Two-Handed Properties since we sort of have something resembling stats for it and there are no simple weapons that have the reach property currently.
As it is, the Scythe wouldn't benefit from either the Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master feats. Meaning that most martial characters are going to pass them up in favor of actual martial weapons. Fighting styles would also hardly play a role in Scythe use as well. Rangers don't get Great Weapon Fighting. Fighters and Paladins do have access to Great Weapon Fighting, but it's honestly better spent on a Maul or Greatsword. Barbarians could use the scythe to some effect I guess but it is a bad fit for their Brutal Critical feature. Monks could use the scythe pretty well and would be rather fitting with the whole ninja farming tool turned into a makeshift weapon. So I guess that leaves Rogues another weapon for Sneak Attack and if I'm being honest, the scythe isn't doing anything that isn't already being done by the Rapier or Light Crossbow.
Even though Shinobi used sickles in Japan that doesn't make them effective weapons though. Sickles are just about as improvised of weapons as you can get but since they were bladed farm tools and as such were able to slip through the cracks when commoners were banned from owning Swords and other bladed weapons. So anything with a blade was better than nothing but that still doesn't counter the fact that historically, tools designed for combat are always going to be better in combat than tools designed for farming, construction, and house chores.
Monster weapons don't have to follow PC rules. Especially with creatures that aren't humanoids.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's something I've never liked. As PC's will often try to pick up a defeated enemies weapon only to find out it doesn't work. I get it with things which may be magic based, but it happens with mundane stuff too.
When your player lizardfolk tries to pick up a spiky shield from a defeated lizardfolk, but can't use it as it's an NPC weapon, it's super jarring and makes it feel like the characters aren't part of the world.
I would totally let that Lizardfolk PC use a spiked shield. I would also let a PC use a deathpact angel’s scythe too, I would just drop the finesse property and give it heavy instead. And it wouldn’t deal necrotic damage nor have reach as those would be inherent to the Angel IMO (like a bugbear has extra reach as a Medium creature).
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DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Limiting the entire fantasy world to PC options would be terrible for the game. Like really, really bad.
The lizardfolk can use that spiked shield because they have trained with it their entire lives. The very few things any given monster can do is the equivalent of a PC's class. The fighter can't use a spiked shield in exactly the same way the wizard can't use the fighter's greatsword - they just haven't learned how. The characters are part of the world, but they are not the ENTIRE world. Having things exist that they aren't automatically masters at is more realistic, not less.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Third Edition was the only edition of D&D that tried to make PCs and NPCs follow the same rules for character creation and equipment. There's a reason that 5th Edition doesn't do that- trying to tie monster statblocks to PC rules made for horribly complex and cluttered statblocks.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I‘d just carry over the e3 stats with 2d4 damage and x4 crit
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This is the answer you were looking for OP. People worrying about realism when we're playing a game about dragons, elves and demons is comical to me. Use one of the reskins that they made above and call it a day.
they are not similar in the least.
Hard disagree.
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I also think they might be mentioned in best of dragon vol 3 under the druids class revamp
Maybe if you want it ti be grim reaper style make it a magic item and make it do necrotic damage.
For IRL utility, no. For the purposes of "big sharp thing on a stick I slice people up with" in a game that real life weapon principles has on its permanent hate mail list, yes.