That is how I went through it, regardless of that, it is 5 or 6 posts down to get to the race bundle pricing, and further still to get the magic item bundle pricing, which isn't ideal for a OP about pricing details.

Quote from Ikerus >>

...

I've never said once to cancel the payment options they currently have. I'm saying some people literally might not be able to afford buying the content again up front - no matter what format it's in. Or they just don't want to.

...

So if there was a player base of 200 people let's say... And half of them would purchase the way things are currently set up, and the other half can't or won't purchase it with the current set up... You guys would argue and rather see half the player base diminish?

 

I get that you are trying to put numbers for a clearer picture for people to grasp, but your numbers are vastly off. To add numbers that are more realistic, a moderator posted in a different thread that there are over 160,000 accounts on DDB with over 60,000 posts between them. In that moderator's estimate, there were 20-30 people who were unhappy with the pricing. That puts the people who are unhappy with the pricing structure at 0.0125% to 0.01875% of the users of DDB. Even if we assumed that only 1 out of every 100 people that are upset say something about it, that would bump it up to 1.25% to 1.875%. This is a very long ways away from half. The group of people complaining are very vocal, so it can seem like there are many more complainers (I will come back to this as well).

This does not mean, however, that the voices of 20-30 people are unimportant. The math in the previous paragraph is simply to help clarify that those voicing upset at the pricing are a very small subset of users. I think, however, that every voice is important, and the staff and moderators say they read every post (outside of PbP), so I think it's safe to say they feel the same way, too. You can, and should, voice your concerns. And others should listen to them and weigh their merits. Just know that some of those others, like myself, might disagree with your arguments and let you know about it.

Not everyone has the time to input all the information either. Again, telling people it's free. . Take it or leave it is stupid. I'd rather people take it. No one is telling you not to purchase...so why are you people all up in everyone else's faces about what they want to see as payment options as consumers?

I know this is out of order at this point, but please bear with me. This is, I think, why so many people are frustrated with the group that's unhappy with the pricing. It would be less frustrating if you (general you, not specifically you, Ikerus) just completely misunderstood DDB and the work that went into it. But you don't misunderstand it at all, you intentionally devalue it. You can acknowledge the usefulness of the toolset. You can acknowledge that it took a lot of time and effort to put together in a way that's (mostly) intuitive and easy on the eyes. You can acknowledge that you yourself may not have the time to devote to pulling this off yourself, even with all the tools that Curse is giving away (for free) to make it easier on you than it was on them.

What you cannot acknowledge is that the time and effort Curse has poured into DDB (on our behalf) is of value. Don't get me wrong. The time has value to you, which is why you don't create your own private homebrew. The time of others, however, does not. You intentionally ignore all of the other benefits and tools that DDB has to offer for the sake of arguing that "it's just the same content I already bought. Why should I buy that content again?" when you know that it is more. And this brings me to the portion of your post that I skipped.

So people want to pay a reasonable sub. Whether they are unsure of the future of the product or The upfront cost alone is enough to deter them. Isn't that their choice if the option is there? That still doesn't impact your own purchasing method. You are very much welcome purchase all the content and then own it.

3 months... 5 months down the road, perhaps those players paying subs decides it is in their interest financially or what not to purchase the books and content. Is that not also a win for everyone. Again, in no way does that impact what you have payed or purchased. I might purchase for my group... So why in any which way do you give a rats behind if people want another pay option? Let them ask for it and have it if curse decides it's a good idea. Argue argue argue... It in no way effects you. If they want to pay 4000 dollars more in the long run - let them! If it increases playerbase and gets them comfortable enough to buy...again... What the &@#_ do any of you care?

Why do I care? I care b+ecause I want to see DDB (and 5th Edition, for that matter) succeed, and your posts, and the posts of others who have made similar assertions, are one of the biggest threats to that success that I currently see. Remember how I earlier said that, despite your smaller numbers, your group is very vocal and seems like a much larger portion of the population? Your continually disparaging remarks about DDB (and/or WotC) can seem like the opinion of a very, very large group of people, especially to people who are new to the game or the forum. I can easily see a new person coming in, reading your posts, leaving with the impression that "Curse and/or WotC are absolutely trying to rip me off. These are some shady companies, and I should seriously reconsider whether or not I will be giving them money/support." 

You complain about how the people in the forums who are frustrated at the continual, and often intentionally misleading, comments about how they are being "fleeced" or "extorted" (actual comments others have made about the pricing structure, not my exaggerations) are diminishing the player base. It is all the negative comments directed toward Curse and WotC, however, that are going to diminish the (new) player base much further.

I don't want to shut down your right to give feedback. I don't want to have your voice ignored. I just want any criticisms of DDB to be constructive so they can make it better, and not destructive and driving away players and good will.

You want another (higher) tier that gives full access to everything? Let's have a conversation about the pros and cons and the logistics of how that might work out (like skizzerz and Rubahak have done, for example).

Have an idea about how DDB can be even better that it's already shaping up to be? Suggest it in a way that doesn't insult them for not having thought of it (or announcing that they've thought of it) yet. 

Concerned that the current pricing structure is cost prohibitive to you and/or on behalf of others? Express that concern without accusing anyone of being greedy or just making another cash grab. 

There's a lot of work Curse can do to make DDB better, and they are literally asking for our feedback on how they can do just that (i.e. the purpose of a Beta test). Why don't we make that easier for them by cutting away the clutter of insults and derogatory statements and just offering constructive criticism, discovered bugs, and whatever else helps this become the digital tool for DnD we've always wanted?

Go live is so close to my birthday! I can't wait to use this and to see where we go from here. I am excited, my players are excited. Anything that takes some of the workload off and makes playing even more enjoyable is always a good thing! 

Maybe I'm confused but I can't see the value in this product. Yet. I already own the core books. I don't think I need them digitally , especially for $60 (all 3, on sale at launch). 

And even then, what does the subscription give me really? I don't think there's really a product attached. You can make characters digitally? What else? Spells? 

Ive heard that eventually there will be full initiative order tracking, ability to roll attacks and spells within the character sheet and even attack specific enemies. However, currently we ALL do this for free. And really, it's easy. Roll the die. Compare results. 

Is this a complicated solution to a simple problem? We will see at launch. As a lifelong casual D&D player, I'm paying attention. But the price to content value ratio isn't even close yet. 

zzzMan74,

Use the free beta content in your next game. You'll only need to pull out the books for the few things not covered in the SRD. I've personally found that it speeds up my game dramatically. Buying the content will only speed it up more. If you try and don't enjoy it, then it probably won't add anything to your game. Every table is different. 

The value you get from this will vary from person to person. I play 5e just fine without this product.  However, I really want digital versions of the books. This product gives me that as well as a earchable database with all the data from the books I purchased through DDB (plus veryone gets the SRD/basic rules for free).

i really like the search feature once when I am planning an adventure (and I am usually away from my home and books when I am brainstorming) and I want an orc encounter. I can search for orc in the database and it will show me all the orc stats in all the books I own (and will give me a listing for the books I don't own, I just can't fully access those monsters in the database).  Or if I want a specific monster to show up during play that I didn't plan for I can just pull the stats up on my iPad/iPhone and keep going.  No need to have books a try the table. Similar search features and spells and magic items  

Those are the sorts of things that I see using DDB for to enhance my game.  I did similar things with DDI for 4e but this tool is much better IMO  

Quote from TheInkStainedKnight >>

As someone trying to write an article about DDB, having to go through this entire thread to get the pricing for all of the pricing was less than ideal. If you have all the pricing info when you are talking about pricing, it would be best, in my not at all humble opinion, to include it all. You replied to someone doing the math of building that paladin with information that person had no way of knowing, had the prices for bundles been in the OP, that guy wouldn't have even posted that, most likely.

"Players can also purchase individual game elements or bundled content within any official source. Like to play barbarians? You can unlock that class and all of its options only. Want to run "Tomb of Horrors" from Tales From the Yawning Portal? Unlock that single adventure." 

My guess is that specific pricing wasn't included for those types of things because they weren't ready to announce those prices at that time and/or they are planning so many different options with pricing (class, subclass, race, magic item, etc., plus bundles like all classes, subclasses, racees, magic items, "data" without prose, etc.) that listing all of them would have overshadowed the rest of the announcement.

The person who wanted to build that special paladin had all the information needed to not make the claim that it would cost over $200 to do so. He or she either missed it, or intentionally ignored it in order to make a misleading claim about the "unfair" pricing structure. Similar to how you did the same in your complaint about how the thread was set up.

Quote from zzzMan74 >>

Maybe I'm confused but I can't see the value in this product. Yet. I already own the core books. I don't think I need them digitally , especially for $60 (all 3, on sale at launch). 

And even then, what does the subscription give me really? I don't think there's really a product attached. You can make characters digitally? What else? Spells? 

Ive heard that eventually there will be full initiative order tracking, ability to roll attacks and spells within the character sheet and even attack specific enemies. However, currently we ALL do this for free. And really, it's easy. Roll the die. Compare results. 

Is this a complicated solution to a simple problem? We will see at launch. As a lifelong casual D&D player, I'm paying attention. But the price to content value ratio isn't even close yet. 

Quote from LtDarien >>

Quote from zzzMan74 >>

Maybe I'm confused but I can't see the value in this product. Yet. I already own the core books. I don't think I need them digitally , especially for $60 (all 3, on sale at launch). 

And even then, what does the subscription give me really? I don't think there's really a product attached. You can make characters digitally? What else? Spells? 

Ive heard that eventually there will be full initiative order tracking, ability to roll attacks and spells within the character sheet and even attack specific enemies. However, currently we ALL do this for free. And really, it's easy. Roll the die. Compare results. 

Is this a complicated solution to a simple problem? We will see at launch. As a lifelong casual D&D player, I'm paying attention. But the price to content value ratio isn't even close yet. 

This is where the value in DDB lies, for me:

http://imgur.com/4W4T2eV   Here we see an advanced filter of spells listing . This particular search shows all Cleric spells that do radiant damage.  It also shows the full text of the spells in the results.  You can do advanced filtered searches for spells, equipment, and monsters.  Searching in general is quite useful, and makes looking up rules at the table easier and faster.

http://imgur.com/cMZoflU   This is a monster listing.  Note all the hyperlinks in the text.  When you mouse over these links you see the rules text of the feature, like the spell description for Dimension Door shown.  The important thing here is that I don't have to leave the page with the monster listing.

These are two of the biggest things I want out of a digital toolset.  

As for the subscriptions, I don't see a ton of value in the Hero tier.  I don't really care about ads if they're not overly intrusive, I doubt I'll have a need for more than 6 characters, and am not particularly interested in homebrew content, and in the rare circumstance in which I do, adding it myself isn't really a problem.  The master tier however, has a lot more value, IMO.  The ability to share purchased content with players in your campaign is a fantastic thing. 

Quote from pauljosephserna >>

Will there be an option at the Master Tier for accessing and/or purchasing the pregenerated Level 1-10 characters from Wizards of the Coast (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/CharacterSheets1-10.zip) as well as from the Starter Set (http://media.wizards.com/downloads/dnd/StarterSet_Charactersv2.pdf)?

In addition, will there be an opportunity to purchase the Starter Set Lost Mine of Phandelver content at launch as well?

I plan on getting the digital versions of the three main books at launch in addition to the digital version of the Starter Set having already purchased all of them in hard copy. I'm currently running the Starter Set with the pregerated Level 1-10 characters I referred to above.

Many thanks to everyone's hard work in making D&D Beyond a reality, and I can't wait for what's in store after the launch on August 15th!

The exact pricing was posted in reply to that guy like a day or two later, and not after any official announcement of said pricing, which has yet to happen....so...sounds like Badeye either leaked early info just to be right in a forum thread..or...had the info and didn't share it??? There is no overshadowing anything, if all of the options are there from day one, not telling us about cheaper options in full detail and  only giving us information on rebuying books is acting in bad faith. Why do you assume they couldn't or wasn't ready to talk about that pricing when Badeye himself just said that the "post wasn't about that", not that he couldn't talk about it at the time.

Quote from TheInkStainedKnight >>

The exact pricing was posted in reply to that guy like a day or two later, and not after any official announcement of said pricing, which has yet to happen....so...sounds like Badeye either leaked early info just to be right in a forum thread..or...had the info and didn't share it??? There is no overshadowing anything, if all of the options are there from day one, not telling us about cheaper options in full detail and  only giving us information on rebuying books is acting in bad faith. Why do you assume they couldn't or wasn't ready to talk about that pricing when Badeye himself just said that the "post wasn't about that", not that he couldn't talk about it at the time.

Quote from TheInkStainedKnight >>

The exact pricing was posted in reply to that guy like a day or two later, and not after any official announcement of said pricing, which has yet to happen....so...sounds like Badeye either leaked early info just to be right in a forum thread..or...had the info and didn't share it??? There is no overshadowing anything, if all of the options are there from day one, not telling us about cheaper options in full detail and  only giving us information on rebuying books is acting in bad faith. Why do you assume they couldn't or wasn't ready to talk about that pricing when Badeye himself just said that the "post wasn't about that", not that he couldn't talk about it at the time.

Quote from TheInkStainedKnight >>

The exact pricing was posted in reply to that guy like a day or two later, and not after any official announcement of said pricing, which has yet to happen....so...sounds like Badeye either leaked early info just to be right in a forum thread..or...had the info and didn't share it??? There is no overshadowing anything, if all of the options are there from day one, not telling us about cheaper options in full detail and  only giving us information on rebuying books is acting in bad faith. Why do you assume they couldn't or wasn't ready to talk about that pricing when Badeye himself just said that the "post wasn't about that", not that he couldn't talk about it at the time.

• There would be a tier based subscription system (Free, Hero, Master)
• The basics of what would differentiate those tiers (number of character slots, ads, access to public homebrew, sharing content, etc.)
• The specifics of what content could be shared with which tier (homebrew can be shared with any tier, and the master tier can share purchased content with up to 12 character slots with the added benefit that characters belonging to hero tier accounts do not take up character slots)
• There would be multiple ways of purchasing content (whole book, individual pieces, bundles, etc.)

What we didn't know before this thread was when it would be released and the specific price of anything. It would seem the purpose of this thread was to announce the release date and the basic pricing information.

In response to the rest of your post, even with the original post of this thread being very clearly written, there has been a lot of confusion with just the amount of information that was provided. In my experience, I have found that adding more complexity in an announcement causes more confusion. I think that adding all of the information would have certainly led to more confusion. Additionally, it would eliminate at least some announcements that Curse could use to keep excitement up leading up to launch (Badeye has dropped of lot of teasers already about upcoming announcements). Companies regularly withhold some information to add a bit of extra anticipation leading up to a product release. It's not a malicious thing. It's not done in bad faith. It's just the same basic principle that causes most people to be upset about spoilers for something they haven't seen/read yet. Once you know all of the information, there's a little less excitement.

Why do you assume that "the post wasn't about that" means he could talk about it? This post is not about a lot of things. That has no bearing on whether or not anyone is authorized to talk about them here. To more directly answer your question, I think it's entirely possible that this thread is not about it because Badeye could not, or did not want, to talk about it. I don't speak for Badeye, so I'm not saying that that's 100% what's going on. Just trying to offer up some examples of why the assumptions you've leapt to (and clung to despite not really having any basis on which to support it) might be a little off and how a bit more research on your part could have prevented a lot of confusion.

If you have any other questions regarding DDB, feel free to ask (in just about any thread). The DDB staff and moderators are very good about responding to questions, as well as the possibility of getting answers from the rest of the DDB community. Also, these forums can be a bit weird in that, when you hit the reply button, there's nothing that signifies to others what you are replying to. It helps to lessen the confusion of others if you either quote or mention what you are referring to specifically in your reply.

Forgive me if this has already been answered, but if a free user joins a Master campaign with all books, then makes a character using non SRD material (say, assassin) - when they leave that campaign does the program rip out that character's content, lock the character, or what?

Thanks!

60+ Pages of people shouting "I'm right" at each other, ignoring arguments, being derisive and dangerously close to insulting to others. It's kinda hit a loop at this point. So this post actually has some content and isn't just me shaking my head at people failing to see others my plan is to get the PHB and Volo's on release, sub-master, then get another book every few months as cash comes in. Do we know an actual time this will hit? Like midnight on the 14th or 5 PM on the 15th or what?

Quote from pauljosephserna >>

In addition, will there be an opportunity to purchase the Starter Set Lost Mine of Phandelver content at launch as well?

Quote from Gehrigan >>

Quote from TheInkStainedKnight >>

The exact pricing was posted in reply to that guy like a day or two later, and not after any official announcement of said pricing, which has yet to happen....so...sounds like Badeye either leaked early info just to be right in a forum thread..or...had the info and didn't share it??? There is no overshadowing anything, if all of the options are there from day one, not telling us about cheaper options in full detail and  only giving us information on rebuying books is acting in bad faith. Why do you assume they couldn't or wasn't ready to talk about that pricing when Badeye himself just said that the "post wasn't about that", not that he couldn't talk about it at the time.

 "Players will be able to unlock official Dungeons & Dragons content in digital format for a one-time purchase that is integrated into the toolset. Players can also purchase individual game elements or bundled content within any official source. Like to play barbarians? You can unlock that class and all of its options only. Want to run "Tomb of Horrors" from Tales From the Yawning Portal? Unlock that single adventure."  Badeye, July 19,2017

@TheInkStainedKnight - It was mentioned in the release. The price itself wasn't but I feel that they didn't want to over-complicate the release information. Anyone who has read through this whole thread can see how confused some of the community are with the information that was clearly given in the opening of this thread. 

Also, please don't start saying that they are acting in bad faith. They have been as forthcoming and transparent as they could possibly be. The moderators and staff have responded to any concerns that have appeared in this thread. You say you are a professional writer, act it.