Hello all, I am looking for an interesting way to have my players run into a BBEG and have an awesome battle, but I need an 'out' for when he is defeated. For context, he is a wizard Mind Flayer. A surgeon, and loves doing research and experiments... imagine a Nazi Scientist (yes, that is the evil level I am going for)...
I just wanted some ideas on ways for the BBEG to escape. Similacrum? Seems too over used. Stopping all damage and go into a cinematic story? Seems like the players would hate this, maybe? Anything else?
I have done the go-to-cutscene thing and my players were fine with it. But we rotate DMs so everyone knows what it's like to not want to prematurely kill off your villain.
Use Contingency to Plane Shift? ...Oh, nevermind, Plane Shift is too high a level to use with Contingency, but the spell itself would work for escaping, or they could use a different Contingency.
Hello all, I am looking for an interesting way to have my players run into a BBEG and have an awesome battle, but I need an 'out' for when he is defeated. For context, he is a wizard Mind Flayer. A surgeon, and loves doing research and experiments... imagine a Nazi Scientist (yes, that is the evil level I am going for)...
I just wanted some ideas on ways for the BBEG to escape. Similacrum? Seems too over used. Stopping all damage and go into a cinematic story? Seems like the players would hate this, maybe? Anything else?
There's always clone, if he's at least 15th level (or he knows someone who can cast it, even if he can't himself).
If he is super smart then he likely has an escape plan. Secret doors, magic items, traps, reinforcements etc...
i would recommend have him try to escape when a certain thing happens, like is dropped to half HP or something AND have something else going on so the players need to choose to either pursue the BBEG or, say, rescue the prisoners. Trying to do both will mean splitting the party and likely failing at both.
AND if they do happen to kill the BBEG - let them. This is important.
Then they need to go up against the bigger BBEG who the BBEG was working for.
So if your big bad guy is on home turf, the place is most likely set up to allow something other than fighting to the death. It could be something as simple as filling the entire room with smoke, blinding flashes, and harrowing sounds - while he knows exactly where that hatch it. Every step of the lapper to escape tunnel is covered in warding bonds if they try to pursue him.
Other ways could be things like the room collapsing - the party might even thing they have done it then - after they barely make it out themselves ... but inside the rubble...he lives on. It depends a bit on the style of your campaign. I am not opposed to things like plane shit or event just a cloak of displacement, but I like using the environment to create some of those situations.
I'm a fan of the Clone "You really thought you killed me?!?" for this kind of super evil villain. Then the party can kill them as many times as they want until they find the hiding place for all of the spare bodies, each time coming back with more and more dangerous experiments before finally getting fed up with the group and opting to throw everything at they have at the party in a huge climax where the party can call on all of the allies they'd made throughout the adventure.
Based on your description of the character I would use a potion of gaseous form to escape. Something dramatic and fast, like "swiping a glass flask of swirling liquid from a nearby laboratory table, chugging its contents then exploding into a cloud of swirling gas which is quickly sucked through a small vent at the base of the wall".
That should grant a quick and easy out yet still seem plausible for a mad scientist-type.
Sacrificial magic. When he needs an out, he can do something dramatic such as cut off a hand to open a strange portal. Through the portal a large hand/talon/claw emerges to 'collect' the wizard who departs with curses on his tentacles.
NPCs don't just sit around waiting for good guys to show up and roll initiative. He might be furiously trying to make an experiment work, likely a betentacled Frankenstein's Monster sort of deal, and flee. There is of course a chance the players will try to stop the scientist from fleeing with Counterspell or breaking concentration on other sort of rituals, or may simply avoid the big scary monster and chase after the good doctor. There's the possibility that this hulking monstrosity the sawbones is working on can frighten or terrify the player characters, especially if it's the remains of someone they know and love.
Others have mentioned environmental factors, which I quite like the idea of. Noxious fumes, glass vats of caustic liquid being shattered and spilled, or simply the walls around the place falling down if it takes enough of a beating (ensuring nobody else can steal the surgeon's secrets) could trigger a fight-or-flight response. Not every encounter has to be a fight, and not every fight has to be won. If the BBEG escapes - and if it dies, let it - they should be at a severe disadvantage. Their lair is destroyed, and if they hastily try to get another one up and running it won't be as strong as their current one, that is if the adventurers get a move on.
I hope my suggestions and those of others are of use. Good luck with the encounter!
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Can't the first time they fight him they just fight a Simulacrum? Remember, NPCs don't follow PC rules, so maybe his Simulacrum has full hitpoints and automatically transfers any knowledge he gained to the real dude upon death. This lets the PCs actually kill the big bad, (feeling like they accomplished something) and have it melt into snow when he dies. Maybe tie it to his lair, so he has a special thing: "When he (or the simulacrum) is in the lair they are in constant telepathic contact and the simulacrum has full HP."
If he's not high enough for that spell, just say he found a scroll of it or a magic item that lets him do it 1/week or so.
This may have been suggested already, but I don't see what's wrong with teleport.
This. Teleport. It’s a classic for a reason. And if the BBEG isn’t high enough level to cast it, there’s lots of magic items that give access to it. Heck, even just a scroll.
Also factor in NPCs don’t have to follow PC rules, and don’t even really need levels. You can just say, this wizard can cast teleport.
Hmm, I'm trying to think of something similar myself. I was thinking about something like reverse summoning? I mean, you can summon beings to your side, so couldn't someone else reverse the effect to summon you instead?I was thinking about giving my bad guys a ring or maybe a less obvious marker a hidden spellcaster can use to scry for and summon anyone wearing them to their side? I don't see why that shouldn't be possible, though it would be 100% homebrew I guess.
They just don’t die because the DM didn’t say they died.
It wasn’t a spell but a special power the BBE has because the DM said they have it.
That's basically a subset of "Stopping all damage and go into a cinematic story?", which the OP already discussed. My experience is that "we can't kill the villain because the DM said so" annoys players more than "We can't kill the victim because convoluted plan makes it impossible".
The lair of said BBEG is actually a Minflayer Spelljammer ship. During a fight with Githyanki pirates on the Astral Plane it took damage as it was about to jump to the Material Plane, this caused it to materialise underground. Fortunately the ship appeared in cavern so most of it is intact but it is incapable of flying or shifting out of the cavern due to structual intergrity issues. As a last resort the BBEG activates the device that enables the ship to shift between planes and steps through a portal which closes after him.
The party cannot follow as it is partially Psionic in nature and requires a Mindflaye to operate it. This then gives the BBEG an way out that cannot be counterspelled, gives the party some otherwordly and wierd artifacts to investigate and you can maybe feed them some information or other plot points. You can have brains in jars (the former crew) that the BBEG was experimenting on.
EDIT: you could also use a self destruct sytem, have an alarm sound that the party feel in their minds instead of hear and then use a skill challenge for them to get out of the area as it starts to explode around them.
Hello all,
I am looking for an interesting way to have my players run into a BBEG and have an awesome battle, but I need an 'out' for when he is defeated.
For context, he is a wizard Mind Flayer. A surgeon, and loves doing research and experiments... imagine a Nazi Scientist (yes, that is the evil level I am going for)...
I just wanted some ideas on ways for the BBEG to escape.
Similacrum? Seems too over used.
Stopping all damage and go into a cinematic story? Seems like the players would hate this, maybe?
Anything else?
Thanks in advance,
~Mad
I have done the go-to-cutscene thing and my players were fine with it. But we rotate DMs so everyone knows what it's like to not want to prematurely kill off your villain.
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Use Contingency to Plane Shift? ...Oh, nevermind, Plane Shift is too high a level to use with Contingency, but the spell itself would work for escaping, or they could use a different Contingency.
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There's always clone, if he's at least 15th level (or he knows someone who can cast it, even if he can't himself).
Contingency used with a teleport spell, such as Dimension Door
If he is super smart then he likely has an escape plan. Secret doors, magic items, traps, reinforcements etc...
i would recommend have him try to escape when a certain thing happens, like is dropped to half HP or something AND have something else going on so the players need to choose to either pursue the BBEG or, say, rescue the prisoners. Trying to do both will mean splitting the party and likely failing at both.
AND if they do happen to kill the BBEG - let them. This is important.
Then they need to go up against the bigger BBEG who the BBEG was working for.
So if your big bad guy is on home turf, the place is most likely set up to allow something other than fighting to the death. It could be something as simple as filling the entire room with smoke, blinding flashes, and harrowing sounds - while he knows exactly where that hatch it. Every step of the lapper to escape tunnel is covered in warding bonds if they try to pursue him.
Other ways could be things like the room collapsing - the party might even thing they have done it then - after they barely make it out themselves ... but inside the rubble...he lives on.
It depends a bit on the style of your campaign. I am not opposed to things like plane shit or event just a cloak of displacement, but I like using the environment to create some of those situations.
Etherealness. ;)
I'm a fan of the Clone "You really thought you killed me?!?" for this kind of super evil villain. Then the party can kill them as many times as they want until they find the hiding place for all of the spare bodies, each time coming back with more and more dangerous experiments before finally getting fed up with the group and opting to throw everything at they have at the party in a huge climax where the party can call on all of the allies they'd made throughout the adventure.
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Based on your description of the character I would use a potion of gaseous form to escape. Something dramatic and fast, like "swiping a glass flask of swirling liquid from a nearby laboratory table, chugging its contents then exploding into a cloud of swirling gas which is quickly sucked through a small vent at the base of the wall".
That should grant a quick and easy out yet still seem plausible for a mad scientist-type.
Sacrificial magic. When he needs an out, he can do something dramatic such as cut off a hand to open a strange portal. Through the portal a large hand/talon/claw emerges to 'collect' the wizard who departs with curses on his tentacles.
NPCs don't just sit around waiting for good guys to show up and roll initiative. He might be furiously trying to make an experiment work, likely a betentacled Frankenstein's Monster sort of deal, and flee. There is of course a chance the players will try to stop the scientist from fleeing with Counterspell or breaking concentration on other sort of rituals, or may simply avoid the big scary monster and chase after the good doctor. There's the possibility that this hulking monstrosity the sawbones is working on can frighten or terrify the player characters, especially if it's the remains of someone they know and love.
Others have mentioned environmental factors, which I quite like the idea of. Noxious fumes, glass vats of caustic liquid being shattered and spilled, or simply the walls around the place falling down if it takes enough of a beating (ensuring nobody else can steal the surgeon's secrets) could trigger a fight-or-flight response. Not every encounter has to be a fight, and not every fight has to be won. If the BBEG escapes - and if it dies, let it - they should be at a severe disadvantage. Their lair is destroyed, and if they hastily try to get another one up and running it won't be as strong as their current one, that is if the adventurers get a move on.
I hope my suggestions and those of others are of use. Good luck with the encounter!
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
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This may have been suggested already, but I don't see what's wrong with teleport.
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HERE.Can't the first time they fight him they just fight a Simulacrum? Remember, NPCs don't follow PC rules, so maybe his Simulacrum has full hitpoints and automatically transfers any knowledge he gained to the real dude upon death. This lets the PCs actually kill the big bad, (feeling like they accomplished something) and have it melt into snow when he dies. Maybe tie it to his lair, so he has a special thing: "When he (or the simulacrum) is in the lair they are in constant telepathic contact and the simulacrum has full HP."
If he's not high enough for that spell, just say he found a scroll of it or a magic item that lets him do it 1/week or so.
This. Teleport. It’s a classic for a reason.
And if the BBEG isn’t high enough level to cast it, there’s lots of magic items that give access to it. Heck, even just a scroll.
Also factor in NPCs don’t have to follow PC rules, and don’t even really need levels. You can just say, this wizard can cast teleport.
The main issues are
Spellcasting enemies tend to be squishy, anything that relies on using an action to escape is probably too slow.
Those are easy to problems to overcome.
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Hmm, I'm trying to think of something similar myself. I was thinking about something like reverse summoning? I mean, you can summon beings to your side, so couldn't someone else reverse the effect to summon you instead?I was thinking about giving my bad guys a ring or maybe a less obvious marker a hidden spellcaster can use to scry for and summon anyone wearing them to their side? I don't see why that shouldn't be possible, though it would be 100% homebrew I guess.
That's basically a subset of "Stopping all damage and go into a cinematic story?", which the OP already discussed. My experience is that "we can't kill the villain because the DM said so" annoys players more than "We can't kill the victim because convoluted plan makes it impossible".
As a variant on the plane shift/cinematic idea:
The lair of said BBEG is actually a Minflayer Spelljammer ship. During a fight with Githyanki pirates on the Astral Plane it took damage as it was about to jump to the Material Plane, this caused it to materialise underground. Fortunately the ship appeared in cavern so most of it is intact but it is incapable of flying or shifting out of the cavern due to structual intergrity issues. As a last resort the BBEG activates the device that enables the ship to shift between planes and steps through a portal which closes after him.
The party cannot follow as it is partially Psionic in nature and requires a Mindflaye to operate it. This then gives the BBEG an way out that cannot be counterspelled, gives the party some otherwordly and wierd artifacts to investigate and you can maybe feed them some information or other plot points. You can have brains in jars (the former crew) that the BBEG was experimenting on.
EDIT: you could also use a self destruct sytem, have an alarm sound that the party feel in their minds instead of hear and then use a skill challenge for them to get out of the area as it starts to explode around them.