We cannot affect base class features. In 2e, if a Paladin didn’t stay on the path of their Oath they just became a regular Tighter. You could always swap their class to Fighter and make their subclass Champion. That’s about as booting and ineffectual as it gets.
Addressing these issues in game in a drastic matter can cause a whole host of problems not just with angering the player, but with the other players at your table. D&D is an inherently unfair game where the DM can do whatever they want... but players do not like being reminded that they are always on the verge of "DM decides to completely change your character or kill your character," even if it is for the greater good of the game itself.
In game, use their god to your advantage - dreams that start out subtly saying "hey, stop that," escalate to more drastic dreams, and might escalate beyond that to portents in the waking world as well.... then you can take a more drastic action like stripping them of their Oath. At that point, the other players feel like it is a narrative decision that has been justifiably established, so the punishment of the problematic player does not feel as jarring to them.
You should also try to address the problem out of game, privately having a conversation with them where you address your concerns and how it is causing problems for the game, you as a DM, and for the other players. Those conversations can be rather hard and need to be handled artfully and in a manner that does not make the problematic player direct their frustration at other players, but they are important conversations to have when there is extremely problematic behavior in game.
We cannot affect base class features. In 2e, if a Paladin didn’t stay on the path of their Oath they just became a regular Tighter. You could always swap their class to Fighter and make their subclass Champion. That’s about as booting and ineffectual as it gets.
I'd generally say they become and Oathbreaker instead of fighter, though that would not solve the OP's problem. If it were a really bad situation, I might be inclined to strip them to Oathbreaker (after going through some divine warnings listed above) as a BIG warning... then start giving them warnings that their oathless connection to divine energy is fading, and can use that to justify story-wise a change to fighter.
I have a paladin in my campaign that is Chaotic-Stupid.
Does anyone know of a way to disable spell casting/spite on DndBeyond? I doubt this is possible but it would be nice.
Why? what are they doing? can you expound on this a bit?
I second this, the advice to offer is easy enough (they can click all the things they want on DnD Beyond but just describe the desired effect not having, after hinting that their deity is not pleased with the actions they are taking and how they are handling their oath), but it would be helpful enough to have some of the examples of why such actions should be necessary in the first place (also a conversation out of game could perhaps be done, and be far more helpful, before taking any steps in game).
You don't need to disabe the character sheet you just need ot tell the player that when he tries to cast a spell nothing happens.
You need to be careful however to ensure your actions are fun for the player and there are real reasons behind it. Paladins are very often portrayed as stupid (though lawful stupid is the typical paladin). If the paladin is repeatedly breaking his oath then one way of dealing with it would be to do something like that that is pretty much the only thing that would have such an impact:
The player needs ot be on board
If you are going to make a character much weaker it should not be for long
Discuss with the player (ooc) see how he wants his character to develop, warn him that repeated breaking of his oath is likely to result in his PC losing its power and find out if that is a direction they want to explore, if not then warn them that actions have consequences and they should ensure their character remains true to their oath if the player is wlling then the player could choose for their character to go in a number of directions for example:
Repent and receive back what they lost
Move to an different oath more fitting with their character, Tashas gives advice on how to do this (Note that Oathbreaker is not just a paladin who breaks their oath "a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power." A good/nuetral party are unlikely to be happy to adventure with a PC who increases the damage output of all the fiends and undead in their aura!)
Rework them into another class (Fighter is the obvious choice here)
Reflavor their paladin features as coming from another entity, possible via multiclass, the first thing that comes ot mind is they enter a pact with an entirty of the shadowfell that manifests itself though a sentiant weapon. This being could give them the ability to cast spells and let them choose to make their weapon attacks more powerful a limited number of times per day (i.e. multiclass int oHexblade warlock and reflavor the paladin features and being received via their patron)
Have the character retire from adventuring and the player roll a new character.
C_G's comment x 1000. This needs actual discussion, not just taking away powers. If they are not being disruptive or childish but simply not holding to their oath, explore why they took that oath in the first place. Get them to write about it, or have an NPC draw it out in-game. Give them the option to take a different oath if they so choose. But don't force them to play less-than-a-character until you have deemed them worthy of getting their powers back. There are good reasons official support for that strategy has been killed over the evolution of D&D.
I have a paladin in my campaign that is Chaotic-Stupid.
Does anyone know of a way to disable spell casting/spite on DndBeyond? I doubt this is possible but it would be nice.
Dead characters can take no actions...
Lol, but it’s true. You could also just make a challenge where the paladin’s faith is tested, causing their god to ”de-power” them.
One thing to keep in mind is that 5e paladins are not necessarily "god-powered", they are oath powered. Although a lot of paladins will have a god or religion they follow, that is not a required aspect of any class except cleric in 5e. So whether or not the paladin's diety can do anything directly depends on how the DM wants to run the world and what sort of divine intervention they might allow.
"Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god."
"Your oath allows you to channel divine energy to fuel magical effects. Each Channel Divinity option provided by your oath explains how to use it."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have a paladin in my campaign that is Chaotic-Stupid.
Does anyone know of a way to disable spell casting/spite on DndBeyond? I doubt this is possible but it would be nice.
Dead characters can take no actions...
We cannot affect base class features. In 2e, if a Paladin didn’t stay on the path of their Oath they just became a regular Tighter. You could always swap their class to Fighter and make their subclass Champion. That’s about as booting and ineffectual as it gets.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I realize it’s probably an autocorrect, but I love the idea of paladins having “spite.”
In game, use their god to your advantage - dreams that start out subtly saying "hey, stop that," escalate to more drastic dreams, and might escalate beyond that to portents in the waking world as well.... then you can take a more drastic action like stripping them of their Oath. At that point, the other players feel like it is a narrative decision that has been justifiably established, so the punishment of the problematic player does not feel as jarring to them.
You should also try to address the problem out of game, privately having a conversation with them where you address your concerns and how it is causing problems for the game, you as a DM, and for the other players. Those conversations can be rather hard and need to be handled artfully and in a manner that does not make the problematic player direct their frustration at other players, but they are important conversations to have when there is extremely problematic behavior in game.
I'd generally say they become and Oathbreaker instead of fighter, though that would not solve the OP's problem. If it were a really bad situation, I might be inclined to strip them to Oathbreaker (after going through some divine warnings listed above) as a BIG warning... then start giving them warnings that their oathless connection to divine energy is fading, and can use that to justify story-wise a change to fighter.
Why? what are they doing? can you expound on this a bit?
I second this, the advice to offer is easy enough (they can click all the things they want on DnD Beyond but just describe the desired effect not having, after hinting that their deity is not pleased with the actions they are taking and how they are handling their oath), but it would be helpful enough to have some of the examples of why such actions should be necessary in the first place (also a conversation out of game could perhaps be done, and be far more helpful, before taking any steps in game).
You don't need to disabe the character sheet you just need ot tell the player that when he tries to cast a spell nothing happens.
You need to be careful however to ensure your actions are fun for the player and there are real reasons behind it. Paladins are very often portrayed as stupid (though lawful stupid is the typical paladin). If the paladin is repeatedly breaking his oath then one way of dealing with it would be to do something like that that is pretty much the only thing that would have such an impact:
Discuss with the player (ooc) see how he wants his character to develop, warn him that repeated breaking of his oath is likely to result in his PC losing its power and find out if that is a direction they want to explore, if not then warn them that actions have consequences and they should ensure their character remains true to their oath if the player is wlling then the player could choose for their character to go in a number of directions for example:
C_G's comment x 1000. This needs actual discussion, not just taking away powers. If they are not being disruptive or childish but simply not holding to their oath, explore why they took that oath in the first place. Get them to write about it, or have an NPC draw it out in-game. Give them the option to take a different oath if they so choose. But don't force them to play less-than-a-character until you have deemed them worthy of getting their powers back. There are good reasons official support for that strategy has been killed over the evolution of D&D.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Lol, but it’s true. You could also just make a challenge where the paladin’s faith is tested, causing their god to ”de-power” them.
“Magic is distilled laziness. Put that on my gravestone.”
One thing to keep in mind is that 5e paladins are not necessarily "god-powered", they are oath powered. Although a lot of paladins will have a god or religion they follow, that is not a required aspect of any class except cleric in 5e. So whether or not the paladin's diety can do anything directly depends on how the DM wants to run the world and what sort of divine intervention they might allow.
"Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god."
"Your oath allows you to channel divine energy to fuel magical effects. Each Channel Divinity option provided by your oath explains how to use it."