One of my PCs is in the process of taming a giant spider they found in a dungeon crawl. I don’t want to take this away from them, since it was very well roleplayed and in character. But how do I balance this new pet for combat? The party is level 2, and will be level 3 pretty soon. I looked at the sidekick rules, but they require the creature to be CR 1/2 or lower.
You can keep it as it is, my party has two owl bears, but if you want to change it to something weaker go ahead, but if you want to leave it be, well throw them stronger monsters. You should have given them a smaller monster to tame at the first time they encountered it, like an eg. a baby manticore would be a better alternative for pets, also they don't have to be a part of combat and you can have your own rules on it. eg. if they're still a baby they can't join combat, and the player has too feed and train them every day with successful skill checks, eat checks determining how fast it grows.
This is awesome! It sounds like fun, and that's the key. I don't think it has to affect combat in a negative way. Look at it this way: It's a tame spider. It's not a familiar or a party member. I have a tame dog, and she sometimes randomly does dog stuff at the wrong time. A tame spider still has needs to hunt, eat, hide, etc. I think that could be fun. It's not going to (always) go running into combat and chomp the right thing. Maybe it randomly goes off to start making a web. That web might help or it might hurt the party in combat, and there's not much they can do to affect it. The spider will be there, and it likely won't attack the tamer, but it doesn't have to obey their every whim. Maybe it takes a liking to another PC, and it starts spinning them up into a web as a gift for the tamer. It doesn't have to be a nasty combat encounter, but it could be a fun roleplaying experience. Maybe the spider attacks an enemy goblin and then carries it away, and that angers the other goblins such that they take it out on the party. The spider is gone for a bit, and the goblins are now in a really bad mood. The possibilities are endless.
My key point is that the spider doesn't have to attack what the tamer tell it to like a Spiritual Weapon or something. It's just "mise en scène" as they say in the theater. Just amusing decoration.
You can keep it as it is, my party has two owl bears, but if you want to change it to something weaker go ahead, but if you want to leave it be, well throw them stronger monsters. You should have given them a smaller monster to tame at the first time they encountered it, like an eg. a baby manticore would be a better alternative for pets, also they don't have to be a part of combat and you can have your own rules on it. eg. if they're still a baby they can't join combat, and the player has too feed and train them every day with successful skill checks, eat checks determining how fast it grows.
I expected them to kill it, not tame it. :) That was all player, and some really nice roleplaying, actually.
This is awesome! It sounds like fun, and that's the key. I don't think it has to affect combat in a negative way. Look at it this way: It's a tame spider. It's not a familiar or a party member. I have a tame dog, and she sometimes randomly does dog stuff at the wrong time. A tame spider still has needs to hunt, eat, hide, etc. I think that could be fun. It's not going to (always) go running into combat and chomp the right thing. Maybe it randomly goes off to start making a web. That web might help or it might hurt the party in combat, and there's not much they can do to affect it. The spider will be there, and it likely won't attack the tamer, but it doesn't have to obey their every whim. Maybe it takes a liking to another PC, and it starts spinning them up into a web as a gift for the tamer. It doesn't have to be a nasty combat encounter, but it could be a fun roleplaying experience. Maybe the spider attacks an enemy goblin and then carries it away, and that angers the other goblins such that they take it out on the party. The spider is gone for a bit, and the goblins are now in a really bad mood. The possibilities are endless.
My key point is that the spider doesn't have to attack what the tamer tell it to like a Spiritual Weapon or something. It's just "mise en scène" as they say in the theater. Just amusing decoration.
For now, adjust encounters as if there were one more party member. It's going to stay at CR1 forever, so as the party gets stronger it will transition to a mostly roleplaying, out-of-combat thing. If it's too strong you can say it retreats at half hp or the player needs to make checks to keep it in battle - being tamed is not the same as being willing to die for your tamer. The spider would still have survival instincts and should be roleplayed as such.
If you want to generalize the sidekick rules, I suggest reducing the number of sidekick levels by 4x the creature's CR (optionally, this does reduce the level of CR 1/4 and 1/2 sidekicks).
I suggest to re-flavor Giant Wolf Spider, and make it into a sidekick. Homebrew it to be huge, and add the Web attack as a sidekick feature at a later level (maybe as a half-feat at level 4, Con+1 & Web?).
"Realism" possibility. Like in the aforementioned dog, a "tamed" spider does not mean it's now some sort of trick pet equivalent of a familiar or a drake warden or beast master's animal (unless the PC was a beast master...). Rather the PC has earned the spider's respect/esteem, maybe expects food gifts in return for its company, but by no means feels compelled to follow the PC on their adventures. The spider's natural vibe is to stalk and maintain its domain. If the PC forces the spider into some sort of tag along capacity, you can have it be clearly uncomfortable in broad daylight with no where to move in accordance with its stalker/hunter nature, no good place to set up shelter etc. Basically, if the PC coerces the spider into a tagalog/sidekick, it could be seen as animal cruelty and the "pet" may develop maladaptaions, to include lashing out at other party members etc. Maybe a future ally/adversary NPC Ranger or Druid can step out and explain the. problem in a sort of "Knowing is Half the Battle Yo Joe!" moment (make your Rangers Beach Head and Stalker, I mean most of the G.I. Joe team is ranger tabbed, but those are the only two actually packaged as rangers that. I remember, Zartan is probably some sort of Monk/Druid if you wanted to go that. way).
The giant spider can be used as a beast of burden in some Underdark and otherwise heavily shadowed contexts, but if you're game is more in a traditional setting where not an inconsiderate amount of time is spent in the sun, this spider can be just a burden, period.
So with the PC not having a pet, perhaps instead the PC now has an ally who the PC can come to. for assistance in further adventures in this location.
Otherwise, just let the PC giddyap and adjust CR levels accordingly.
"Realism" possibility. Like in the aforementioned dog, a "tamed" spider does not mean it's now some sort of trick pet equivalent of a familiar or a drake warden or beast master's animal (unless the PC was a beast master...). Rather the PC has earned the spider's respect/esteem, maybe expects food gifts in return for its company, but by no means feels compelled to follow the PC on their adventures. The spider's natural vibe is to stalk and maintain its domain. If the PC forces the spider into some sort of tag along capacity, you can have it be clearly uncomfortable in broad daylight with no where to move in accordance with its stalker/hunter nature, no good place to set up shelter etc. Basically, if the PC coerces the spider into a tagalog/sidekick, it could be seen as animal cruelty and the "pet" may develop maladaptaions, to include lashing out at other party members etc. Maybe a future ally/adversary NPC Ranger or Druid can step out and explain the. problem in a sort of "Knowing is Half the Battle Yo Joe!" moment (make your Rangers Beach Head and Stalker, I mean most of the G.I. Joe team is ranger tabbed, but those are the only two actually packaged as rangers that. I remember, Zartan is probably some sort of Monk/Druid if you wanted to go that. way).
The giant spider can be used as a beast of burden in some Underdark and otherwise heavily shadowed contexts, but if you're game is more in a traditional setting where not an inconsiderate amount of time is spent in the sun, this spider can be just a burden, period.
So with the PC not having a pet, perhaps instead the PC now has an ally who the PC can come to. for assistance in further adventures in this location.
Otherwise, just let the PC giddyap and adjust CR levels accordingly.
The PCs are nocturnally operating, (drow, pixie, dhampir, kobold) so shadowy adventures are most frequent. But your point about it being an ally instead of a pet is a good idea.
The PCs are nocturnally operating, (drow, pixie, dhampir, kobold) so shadowy adventures are most frequent. But your point about it being an ally instead of a pet is a good idea.
Eh, I would probably allow a drow to befriend a giant spider even if it otherwise makes no sense, because even ones who don't worship her have a connection to Lolth.
You might want to establish ground rules with the player about it. Something like, if they just want it to be for rp/fun, that's great. Then if they don't use it to help them overcome challenges, then just have it be around when they want it for fun. So its like, if the players don't use it to attack enemies, you won't attack it. Otherwise remind them how much of a hard time its going to have when enemies start having AoE spells and effects.
But if they want to use it to fight, or otherwise overcome challenges, then its fair game as a target. And also, it would get a share of xp. In that case, you might want to se the sidekick rules.
And I second Midnight's advice about treading carefully about how it works. You don't want to start giving away class features for free. A beastmaster ranger (or any of the other subclasses which get pets, there's quite a few anymore) is giving up access to other features to get their pet. If you give them a fully-fledged pet, they're getting whatever their normal class/subclass features are, plus another one. That's a pretty big boost. That's one of the reasons I lean toward that kind of thing being just for role play and fun as a pet, and not being useful.
I expected them to kill it, not tame it. :) That was all player, and some really nice roleplaying, actually.
Player do the darndest things sometimes. 😉
Honestly, when it comes to pets, familiars, mounts, animal companions, homunculi, or other non-PC creatures that tag along with the party, it has been my experience that the challenge lies less with balancing encounters to compensate for the additional combatant, and more with keeping them from getting dead. (Like the regular human marines that tag along with The Master Chief to “help” in Halo games.)
Anyone who has been in a party with a pre-Tasha’s Beastmaster Ranger; a Paladin who tried to utilize a steed or greater steed in combat; or a DM who thinks it perfectly reasonable for an NPC (or a cat or rat) to squash or eat a wandering spider… that just happened to be familiar) to a risk-averse player). Every one of those players will provide a plethora of anecdotal evidence regarding such creatures’ remarkably short life expectancies. (Just like those Marines in the Halo games.)
As to your actual question regarding combat and encounter balance to accommodate the additional ally: IMO, it’s not worth worrying about, and I’ll tell you why in a couple of ways.
Numerically
If you want some math to put things into perspective for you, consider the (convoluted) formula presented in the DMG for calculating “balanced” combat encounters. Even a CR 1, 4 Hit Die giant spider worth 200 XP is not anywhere close to a 3rd level PC in combat. See, I calculated the XP Thresholds for the Average Party Sizes (since I don’t know how many Players you have), all as 3rd Level PCs based on your comments:
Average Party Sizes
----- XP Thresholds -----
Adventuring Day XP Totals (Adjusted)
Easy
Medium
Hard
Deadly
3 × 3rd level PCs
225
450
675
1,200
3,600
4 × 3rd level PCs
300
600
900
1,600
4,800
5 × 3rd level PCs
375
750
1,125
2,000
6,000
According to the numbers calculated using the guidelines presented in the DMG, a typical party of four 3rd level PCs would have to grind through the following volume of encounters every day, just to maintain the anticipated pace of level progressions:
24 (Easy) combat encounters against a solitary Giant Spider; or
6 (Medium) encounters against a pair of Giant Spiders; or
4 (Hard+) encounters against a trio of Giant Spiders; or
3 (Deadly) encounters against a quartet of Giant Spiders.
So, at least according to the suggestions in the DMG, calculated by XP, a single giant spider is “worth” approximately ⅙ of a single 3rd level PC in terms of how much impact it would have on encounter balance. (Which makes sense since a single giant spider is supposedly a Medium encounter for a party of four 1st level PCs when quick calculated by CR.) By WotC’s own rules, the spider’s overall impact on encounter balance should be pretty negligible. In other words: “fo’getaboutit.”
By the Game’s Rules
It would be a pet, not a companion. That means it’s behavior in combat would fall under your domain as DM, not the player’s. (Kinda like an “Intelligent Mount,” sans the Intelligence.) So you would literally be in control of how the creature would impact each combat, if at all. Not to mention, as a Beast it is likely far more sensible than your average Humanoid, let alone Adventurers. So it would defend itself whenever necessary, but otherwise avoid combat. I even have some actually RAW elsewhere you could point to as examples for amending the creature’s unique statblock: the Knight Background’s Retainers feature, and an excerpt from the rules for the Artificer’s Homunculus Servant Infusion.
You have the service of three retainers loyal to your family. These retainers can be attendants or messengers, and one might be a majordomo. Your retainers are commoners who can perform mundane tasks for you,but they do not fight for you, will not follow you into obviously dangerous areas (such as dungeons), and will leave if they are frequently endangered or abused.
In combat, the homunculus shares your initiative count, but it takes its turn immediately after yours. It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes on its turn is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action.If you are incapacitated, the homunculus can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.
So it would (sensibly) avoid many of the situations most Adventurers throw themselves at. While the party is exploring the dungeon, spidey would stay behind to guard the horses. Considering that it is a spider after all, on occasions when it is present during combat, I would let it take either the [action]Dodge[/action] or Hide action on its turn. I would also let it make full use of its statblock to actively defend itself if it gets stuck in melee with attackers. Finally, it is a giant spider, and spiders are ambush predators by nature. So I would also make exceptions to the restrictions against combat to allow for its need to feed itself.
If the player wants their tamed tarantu-titan to be more than that, then I would suggest they take three levels in Ranger and select the Beastmaster subclass. Then I would let them control the overlarge arachnid following the rules for that subclass, but I would overrule both the size and CR restrictions and allow their eight-legged friend to be their companion. They engaged in some apparently remarkable RP (since you remarked on it twice). If they follow up by making (likely non-optimized) OOC decision to pursue a specific level progression to better reflect their character’s IC actions…. 🤯🤗👏 The player would have earned the special companion as a DM Boon by that point in my opinion.
As a Simple, Effective Narrative Approach
The other thing you could do is what I do with “Party NPCs” during combat encounters. I narrate them doing cool stuff, but they never actually roll attacks, nor inflict damage on enemies (unless I done messed up something fierce and the PNPC needs to save some PC bacon). Usually the only real impact they have during combat is to either buff or heal PCs as needed. You get to always give the players the impression their giant spider buddy is kicking 455 and not chewing bubblegum because they’ll love it. And you get to not actually consider it in your prep at all since it will never actually impact combat, or very minimally at most.
So, at least according to the suggestions in the DMG, calculated by XP, a single giant spider is “worth” approximately ⅙ of a single 3rd level PC in terms of how much impact it would have on encounter balance.
Not precisely; the formula is nonlinear in number of combatants for a reason. A more appropriate comparison is 4 PCs vs 4 giant spiders, which works out to 1600 xp (deadly, but bear in mind it's 1/3 of the daily budget). Typically a CR 1 is comparable in power to a level 2 PC.
If the spider isn't fed enough, then any PC that falls unconscious had better watch out :-)
Or maybe the party Artificer infused the spider to deal radiant damage ... with some interesting side effects that boost the victims STR and DEX and ability to cast Spider Climb as a bonus action, plus advantage on initiative and DEX saves.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So, at least according to the suggestions in the DMG, calculated by XP, a single giant spider is “worth” approximately ⅙ of a single 3rd level PC in terms of how much impact it would have on encounter balance.
Not precisely; the formula is nonlinear in number of combatants for a reason. A more appropriate comparison is 4 PCs vs 4 giant spiders, which works out to 1600 xp (deadly, but bear in mind it's 1/3 of the daily budget). Typically a CR 1 is comparable in power to a level 2 PC.
You make a couple good points that I’d like to discuss.
True, I did use the least conservative estimate. To generate a much more conservative estimate using the Medium (6 fights v 2 Giant Spiders), Hard+ (4 fights v 3 Giant Spiders), or Deadly (3 fights v 4 Giant Spiders) encounters which I included above, they all tell the same story. Four 3rd level PCs should be able to bury 12 Giant Spiders per day on average. Any third grader should be able to tell you that breaks down to 3 Giant spiders per 3rd level PC (4 ÷ 12 = 1 ÷ 3 = ⅓). So I don’t care how you slice it at that point, by those numbers a single CR1 giant spider is (conservatively) only equivalent to ⅓ of a 3rd level PC. 🤷♂️
I won’t disagree that CR1 monster may be the equivalent of a 2nd level PC in certain scenarios, like a straight 1v1 deathmatch for example. For one thing I haven’t done any calculations regarding that comparison. For another I haven’t any 1st-hand experience as either DM or player in this edition that would lead me to dispute your estimate. Also, my gut instinct is telling me you’re very likely right. Plus, having been a follower of yours for a while, I don’t double your knowledge, experience, or veracity. However, the situation UndauntedDM described is not comparable to situations anything like that deathmatch scenario, and for one significant reason: this particular giant spider has no reason to fight that hard. Consider the experience of tagging along with an adventuring party from the spider’s perspective:
Spiders are solitary ambush predators by nature. By and large, to a spider, other creatures fall into one of four categories: Food (creatures to hunt and eat), Competition (creatures that hunt the same foods), Threats (creatures that would eat the spider), or Inconsequential (creatures either too small or too big to eat, be eaten by, or compete with for food).
This Giant Spider (lets call it “Legs” for simplicity) has now had a massive paradigm shift by having met a group of creatures that have given Legs reason to invent an entirely new creature category, blowing its spidery mind. These creatures are obviously not too big or too small, so by default they can’t be Inconsequential. But they are also not competing with Legs for food, and they are not trying to kill Legs, so they are also neither Competition, nor are they Threats. Legs has decided they are not Food because a creature that is too hard to kill is not prey, and creatures that are not prey are not food, so these creatures are “Not-Food.” Legs would not normally develop any sort of attachment to other creatures, but these are the first Not-Foods Legs has ever encountered. Plus, they were nice to Legs, so Legs decides to hang out with them and learn a little more about this interesting new category of creatures. So Legs follows them home and this is what Legs observes….
At first there is a period of adjustment regarding the whole nest of these creatures that are not food (wherever that is). At first, these creatures seemed like Threats to Legs, but The Not-Foods (Legs’ name for the party) protected Legs, and so the others stopped being Threats to Legs. Then there seemed to be some upset after Legs found Food that lived with the not food creatures (domesticated animals). Apparently the other creatures that would beFood, but live with the ones that are not food, are also “creatures that are not Food for Legs.” Eventually Legs determines that “The Others” (Legs’ term for other humanoids) are some sort of Competition. After The Not-Foods get things sorted out with The Others, and once they start bringing creatures that are Food for Legs, everything seems to settle down.
Eventually, The Not-Foods decide to leave the safety, comfort, and abundant food supply of their nest. Legs understands that The Not-Foods make sure that The Others also see Legs as not Food, Threat, or Competition, so when The Not-Foods set out, Legs wisely accompanies them. The Not-Foods journey over a considerable distance, and along the way they have to defend themselves against attacks by various Threats. Legs has no idea why The Not-Foods are making this dangerous journey. After their (seemingly unnecessary) trek over a long distance, and having to defend their lives against multiple Threats, The Not-Foods finally arrive… somewhere. Legs, being a spider, is naturally predisposed to making its home in places pretty similar to this. Legs is very keenly aware that something is going to be nesting in there, likely a variety of somethings. Or, if nothing lives in there, that there’s an excellent reason for it. There may be Food inside, but also probably Competition, and possibly even Threats. Legs cannot possibly fathom why The Not-Foods are going in there.
Legs follows The Not-Foods into the dungeon because [plausible excuse], or if for no other reason out of morbid curiosity. Inside the dungeon, Legs then witnesses The Not-Food sneaking along chamber by room by cavern. As an ambush predator, this behavior finally makes sense to Legs as it is a good way to hunt Food and avoid Threats. Whenever The Not-Foods happen upon other creatures they attack from surprise, a tactic Legs has used all its life. But then Legs observes them again engage in some particularly peculiar activities that Legs cannot comprehend….
For one thing, the Not-Foods seems to make a habit of hunting creatures waaayy more dangerous than they are, often sustaining life threatening injuries in the process. (Don’t The Not-Foods understand that prey that is too dangerous is not prey? After all, that is part of why The Not-Foods are not Food to Legs.) For another thing, even when they have killed enough to feast on for days, The Not-Foods keep hunting. (Don’t they know it is good to leave some Food alive so there will be more Food tomorrow?) Stranger still, they never eat what they kill. (Why make that long, dangerous journey, and then engage in this very dangerous hunt… and then not eat the Food? Maybe…? Maybe The Not-Foods are killing the dangerous creatures to claim this as their new nest! Yes, that would make sense, that must be it.) On top of all that, The Not-Foods seem very excited to collect strange things from their prey-that-isn’t-Food. The things they collect are the types of things Legs would normally discard after it’s meal, either by cutting them out of its web, or pushing them out of its nest. (Don’t The Not-Foods know that they are doing things the wrong way ‘round? It is good to eat the soft parts, and discard the inedible bits. They discard the Food parts and keep the leftover bits?!?) When all of that is finally done, Legs observe The Not-Foods climb back out of the perfect nesting spot they just cleared, without making their own nest there. Then, most bizarre of all, The Not-Foods then reverse their journey and travel all the way back to their old nest. (WTF?!?)
Now, if you were Legs the Giant Spider, would you:
Fight so hard against The Not-Foods’ prey-that-is-not-Food for no discernible reason, that you pull the same weight as a 2nd level PC.
Hang back, hide near The Not-Foods’ “creatures that are also not Food for Legs” (mounts and pack animals), and then ambush and eat whatever came along trying to hunt those creatures. Not only would that be a good hunt and an easy meal, but it would protect the creatures that are not Food for Legs’ friends The Not-Foods.
So, should Legs really be treated as the equivalent of a 2nd level PC in rearms of how UndauntedDM designs and balances combat encounters? Or treat Legs as Inconsequential entity in the matter?
If the spider isn't fed enough, then any PC that falls unconscious had better watch out :-)
Or maybe the party Artificer infused the spider to deal radiant damage ... with some interesting side effects that boost the victims STR and DEX and ability to cast Spider Climb as a bonus action, plus advantage on initiative and DEX saves.
Consult with your PC as to what they see as the role the spider will play in the campaign, either NPC/Pet or additional party member.
If the former, make it clear to both the PC and the party that this role gives the spider some plot armor. Define what would constitute breaking that role.
If the latter, make it clear that without special care and protection the spider may not last long. Consider the sidekick template.
Also remember that no matter which is chosen that the spider is not under the control of the PC unless the PC decides to multiclass into a situation that would allow control.
Where dose the spider go in social situations? Is there an intimidation bonus? How does it treat other party members? What are the party feeding it so they don't get eaten?
Don't forget that spiders, in general, have lifespans that are short; a few years on average. There are species that have lived to 40-ish but that is a rare thing. In order to grow spiders molt. They are very vulnerable in that state and would need to stay put for several hours/days. Protecting it could be a point of contention with the party if time is not on their side for a quest.
If the spider is to truly be a part of the party some monsters will target it as well. Wasps, birds, other spiders, lizards and anything else could see the spider as potential meal. Use that to your advantage if you want to introduce a new plot hook. It could also be a real tear jerker to have the spider age and die of natural causes after several adventures.
Perhaps this particular spider is about to lay eggs. She would need a place to do that. Do the PCs have a home base that might benefit from that kind of protection/infestation? Also think about the fact that just because Mama spider is "friendly" it doesn't mean that her progeny will be.
Do some spider research.
Be sure that the spider and PC don't hog the spotlight.
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One of my PCs is in the process of taming a giant spider they found in a dungeon crawl. I don’t want to take this away from them, since it was very well roleplayed and in character. But how do I balance this new pet for combat? The party is level 2, and will be level 3 pretty soon. I looked at the sidekick rules, but they require the creature to be CR 1/2 or lower.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
You can keep it as it is, my party has two owl bears, but if you want to change it to something weaker go ahead, but if you want to leave it be, well throw them stronger monsters. You should have given them a smaller monster to tame at the first time they encountered it, like an eg. a baby manticore would be a better alternative for pets, also they don't have to be a part of combat and you can have your own rules on it. eg. if they're still a baby they can't join combat, and the player has too feed and train them every day with successful skill checks, eat checks determining how fast it grows.
This is awesome! It sounds like fun, and that's the key. I don't think it has to affect combat in a negative way. Look at it this way: It's a tame spider. It's not a familiar or a party member. I have a tame dog, and she sometimes randomly does dog stuff at the wrong time. A tame spider still has needs to hunt, eat, hide, etc. I think that could be fun. It's not going to (always) go running into combat and chomp the right thing. Maybe it randomly goes off to start making a web. That web might help or it might hurt the party in combat, and there's not much they can do to affect it. The spider will be there, and it likely won't attack the tamer, but it doesn't have to obey their every whim. Maybe it takes a liking to another PC, and it starts spinning them up into a web as a gift for the tamer. It doesn't have to be a nasty combat encounter, but it could be a fun roleplaying experience. Maybe the spider attacks an enemy goblin and then carries it away, and that angers the other goblins such that they take it out on the party. The spider is gone for a bit, and the goblins are now in a really bad mood. The possibilities are endless.
My key point is that the spider doesn't have to attack what the tamer tell it to like a Spiritual Weapon or something. It's just "mise en scène" as they say in the theater. Just amusing decoration.
I expected them to kill it, not tame it. :) That was all player, and some really nice roleplaying, actually.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
That’sa good idea! Thanks.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
For now, adjust encounters as if there were one more party member. It's going to stay at CR1 forever, so as the party gets stronger it will transition to a mostly roleplaying, out-of-combat thing. If it's too strong you can say it retreats at half hp or the player needs to make checks to keep it in battle - being tamed is not the same as being willing to die for your tamer. The spider would still have survival instincts and should be roleplayed as such.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
If you want to generalize the sidekick rules, I suggest reducing the number of sidekick levels by 4x the creature's CR (optionally, this does reduce the level of CR 1/4 and 1/2 sidekicks).
I suggest to re-flavor Giant Wolf Spider, and make it into a sidekick. Homebrew it to be huge, and add the Web attack as a sidekick feature at a later level (maybe as a half-feat at level 4, Con+1 & Web?).
That way it stays relevant for a while.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
"Realism" possibility. Like in the aforementioned dog, a "tamed" spider does not mean it's now some sort of trick pet equivalent of a familiar or a drake warden or beast master's animal (unless the PC was a beast master...). Rather the PC has earned the spider's respect/esteem, maybe expects food gifts in return for its company, but by no means feels compelled to follow the PC on their adventures. The spider's natural vibe is to stalk and maintain its domain. If the PC forces the spider into some sort of tag along capacity, you can have it be clearly uncomfortable in broad daylight with no where to move in accordance with its stalker/hunter nature, no good place to set up shelter etc. Basically, if the PC coerces the spider into a tagalog/sidekick, it could be seen as animal cruelty and the "pet" may develop maladaptaions, to include lashing out at other party members etc. Maybe a future ally/adversary NPC Ranger or Druid can step out and explain the. problem in a sort of "Knowing is Half the Battle Yo Joe!" moment (make your Rangers Beach Head and Stalker, I mean most of the G.I. Joe team is ranger tabbed, but those are the only two actually packaged as rangers that. I remember, Zartan is probably some sort of Monk/Druid if you wanted to go that. way).
The giant spider can be used as a beast of burden in some Underdark and otherwise heavily shadowed contexts, but if you're game is more in a traditional setting where not an inconsiderate amount of time is spent in the sun, this spider can be just a burden, period.
So with the PC not having a pet, perhaps instead the PC now has an ally who the PC can come to. for assistance in further adventures in this location.
Otherwise, just let the PC giddyap and adjust CR levels accordingly.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
The PCs are nocturnally operating, (drow, pixie, dhampir, kobold) so shadowy adventures are most frequent. But your point about it being an ally instead of a pet is a good idea.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
Eh, I would probably allow a drow to befriend a giant spider even if it otherwise makes no sense, because even ones who don't worship her have a connection to Lolth.
You might want to establish ground rules with the player about it. Something like, if they just want it to be for rp/fun, that's great. Then if they don't use it to help them overcome challenges, then just have it be around when they want it for fun. So its like, if the players don't use it to attack enemies, you won't attack it. Otherwise remind them how much of a hard time its going to have when enemies start having AoE spells and effects.
But if they want to use it to fight, or otherwise overcome challenges, then its fair game as a target. And also, it would get a share of xp. In that case, you might want to se the sidekick rules.
And I second Midnight's advice about treading carefully about how it works. You don't want to start giving away class features for free. A beastmaster ranger (or any of the other subclasses which get pets, there's quite a few anymore) is giving up access to other features to get their pet. If you give them a fully-fledged pet, they're getting whatever their normal class/subclass features are, plus another one. That's a pretty big boost. That's one of the reasons I lean toward that kind of thing being just for role play and fun as a pet, and not being useful.
Player do the darndest things sometimes. 😉
Honestly, when it comes to pets, familiars, mounts, animal companions, homunculi, or other non-PC creatures that tag along with the party, it has been my experience that the challenge lies less with balancing encounters to compensate for the additional combatant, and more with keeping them from getting dead. (Like the regular human marines that tag along with The Master Chief to “help” in Halo games.)
Anyone who has been in a party with a pre-Tasha’s Beastmaster Ranger; a Paladin who tried to utilize a steed or greater steed in combat; or a DM who thinks it perfectly reasonable for an NPC (or a cat or rat) to squash or eat a wandering spider… that just happened to be familiar) to a risk-averse player). Every one of those players will provide a plethora of anecdotal evidence regarding such creatures’ remarkably short life expectancies. (Just like those Marines in the Halo games.)
As to your actual question regarding combat and encounter balance to accommodate the additional ally: IMO, it’s not worth worrying about, and I’ll tell you why in a couple of ways.
Numerically
If you want some math to put things into perspective for you, consider the (convoluted) formula presented in the DMG for calculating “balanced” combat encounters. Even a CR 1, 4 Hit Die giant spider worth 200 XP is not anywhere close to a 3rd level PC in combat. See, I calculated the XP Thresholds for the Average Party Sizes (since I don’t know how many Players you have), all as 3rd Level PCs based on your comments:
Party
Sizes
Adventuring
Day XP Totals
(Adjusted)
According to the numbers calculated using the guidelines presented in the DMG, a typical party of four 3rd level PCs would have to grind through the following volume of encounters every day, just to maintain the anticipated pace of level progressions:
So, at least according to the suggestions in the DMG, calculated by XP, a single giant spider is “worth” approximately ⅙ of a single 3rd level PC in terms of how much impact it would have on encounter balance. (Which makes sense since a single giant spider is supposedly a Medium encounter for a party of four 1st level PCs when quick calculated by CR.) By WotC’s own rules, the spider’s overall impact on encounter balance should be pretty negligible. In other words: “fo’getaboutit.”
By the Game’s Rules
It would be a pet, not a companion. That means it’s behavior in combat would fall under your domain as DM, not the player’s. (Kinda like an “Intelligent Mount,” sans the Intelligence.) So you would literally be in control of how the creature would impact each combat, if at all. Not to mention, as a Beast it is likely far more sensible than your average Humanoid, let alone Adventurers. So it would defend itself whenever necessary, but otherwise avoid combat. I even have some actually RAW elsewhere you could point to as examples for amending the creature’s unique statblock: the Knight Background’s Retainers feature, and an excerpt from the rules for the Artificer’s Homunculus Servant Infusion.
So it would (sensibly) avoid many of the situations most Adventurers throw themselves at. While the party is exploring the dungeon, spidey would stay behind to guard the horses. Considering that it is a spider after all, on occasions when it is present during combat, I would let it take either the [action]Dodge[/action] or Hide action on its turn. I would also let it make full use of its statblock to actively defend itself if it gets stuck in melee with attackers. Finally, it is a giant spider, and spiders are ambush predators by nature. So I would also make exceptions to the restrictions against combat to allow for its need to feed itself.
If the player wants their tamed tarantu-titan to be more than that, then I would suggest they take three levels in Ranger and select the Beastmaster subclass. Then I would let them control the overlarge arachnid following the rules for that subclass, but I would overrule both the size and CR restrictions and allow their eight-legged friend to be their companion. They engaged in some apparently remarkable RP (since you remarked on it twice). If they follow up by making (likely non-optimized) OOC decision to pursue a specific level progression to better reflect their character’s IC actions…. 🤯🤗👏 The player would have earned the special companion as a DM Boon by that point in my opinion.
As a Simple, Effective Narrative Approach
The other thing you could do is what I do with “Party NPCs” during combat encounters. I narrate them doing cool stuff, but they never actually roll attacks, nor inflict damage on enemies (unless I done messed up something fierce and the PNPC needs to save some PC bacon). Usually the only real impact they have during combat is to either buff or heal PCs as needed. You get to always give the players the impression their giant spider buddy is kicking 455 and not chewing bubblegum because they’ll love it. And you get to not actually consider it in your prep at all since it will never actually impact combat, or very minimally at most.
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Not precisely; the formula is nonlinear in number of combatants for a reason. A more appropriate comparison is 4 PCs vs 4 giant spiders, which works out to 1600 xp (deadly, but bear in mind it's 1/3 of the daily budget). Typically a CR 1 is comparable in power to a level 2 PC.
If the spider isn't fed enough, then any PC that falls unconscious had better watch out :-)
Or maybe the party Artificer infused the spider to deal radiant damage ... with some interesting side effects that boost the victims STR and DEX and ability to cast Spider Climb as a bonus action, plus advantage on initiative and DEX saves.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
You make a couple good points that I’d like to discuss.
True, I did use the least conservative estimate. To generate a much more conservative estimate using the Medium (6 fights v 2 Giant Spiders), Hard+ (4 fights v 3 Giant Spiders), or Deadly (3 fights v 4 Giant Spiders) encounters which I included above, they all tell the same story. Four 3rd level PCs should be able to bury 12 Giant Spiders per day on average. Any third grader should be able to tell you that breaks down to 3 Giant spiders per 3rd level PC (4 ÷ 12 = 1 ÷ 3 = ⅓). So I don’t care how you slice it at that point, by those numbers a single CR1 giant spider is (conservatively) only equivalent to ⅓ of a 3rd level PC. 🤷♂️
I won’t disagree that CR1 monster may be the equivalent of a 2nd level PC in certain scenarios, like a straight 1v1 deathmatch for example. For one thing I haven’t done any calculations regarding that comparison. For another I haven’t any 1st-hand experience as either DM or player in this edition that would lead me to dispute your estimate. Also, my gut instinct is telling me you’re very likely right. Plus, having been a follower of yours for a while, I don’t double your knowledge, experience, or veracity. However, the situation UndauntedDM described is not comparable to situations anything like that deathmatch scenario, and for one significant reason: this particular giant spider has no reason to fight that hard. Consider the experience of tagging along with an adventuring party from the spider’s perspective:
Now, if you were Legs the Giant Spider, would you:
So, should Legs really be treated as the equivalent of a 2nd level PC in rearms of how UndauntedDM designs and balances combat encounters? Or treat Legs as Inconsequential entity in the matter?
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You forgot Favored Enemy: Hobgoblin
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Consult with your PC as to what they see as the role the spider will play in the campaign, either NPC/Pet or additional party member.
If the former, make it clear to both the PC and the party that this role gives the spider some plot armor. Define what would constitute breaking that role.
If the latter, make it clear that without special care and protection the spider may not last long. Consider the sidekick template.
Also remember that no matter which is chosen that the spider is not under the control of the PC unless the PC decides to multiclass into a situation that would allow control.
Where dose the spider go in social situations? Is there an intimidation bonus? How does it treat other party members? What are the party feeding it so they don't get eaten?
Don't forget that spiders, in general, have lifespans that are short; a few years on average. There are species that have lived to 40-ish but that is a rare thing. In order to grow spiders molt. They are very vulnerable in that state and would need to stay put for several hours/days. Protecting it could be a point of contention with the party if time is not on their side for a quest.
If the spider is to truly be a part of the party some monsters will target it as well. Wasps, birds, other spiders, lizards and anything else could see the spider as potential meal. Use that to your advantage if you want to introduce a new plot hook. It could also be a real tear jerker to have the spider age and die of natural causes after several adventures.
Perhaps this particular spider is about to lay eggs. She would need a place to do that. Do the PCs have a home base that might benefit from that kind of protection/infestation? Also think about the fact that just because Mama spider is "friendly" it doesn't mean that her progeny will be.
Do some spider research.
Be sure that the spider and PC don't hog the spotlight.