Hello! I am new to the forums so I am sorry if I am posting in the wrong area...
I am at least an intermediate DM with 3 campaigns seen to the end twice with two different groups, and several one shots. I am working on writing a 4th one for my current group but I have run into an interesting road block.
The four players are usually well engaged, good at roleplaying, and have rapport with each other. Recently I ran a one shot where one of the players made Kirito from Sword Art Online, dual swords, magic armored trench coat, and a one track mind of finding "A woman with orange hair."
He had his eyes set on this goal so much that he would abstain from fights or attempt to cause them if the location or people didn't further this goal in telling him about the woman with orange hair. (I.e. punching a dancer who invited him to dance with a group of reveling fae.)
I hadn't worked this idea into my script because I was aware he was playing a "Kirito-Like" character, but not Kirito exactly.
We completed the one shot, he didn't find the orange haired girl, he got on a ship and sailed off of the island.
Now I am working on a new campaign using Saltmarsh as a background, and the Sea Princes as the main faction to join or dismantle, and the player mentioned bringing Kirito back in his search for Asuna.
The other players seem happy with being pirates and getting their own fleets, hunting dragon turtles and chasing moving islands, but this one player says all he wants is for Kirito to find Asuna, then his character will leave the group and he can roll up another one.
He is a great player, but during my one shot he was on his phone, disengaged, would ask if someone saw a woman, then go back to his phone when he heard no.
I want this new campaign to keep everyone engaged and happy but I don't necessarily want to cater to one player with a Sword Art Online fantasy, even if he says his character will leave afterwards.
I said he could play Kirito if he can find other motivations besides just finding Asuna so he can stay engaged in the world, but it didn't seem to stick as he joked about beating a dragon turtle and making it tell him where the orange hair woman was.
I could give him Asuna within the first 4 or 5 sessions with a mini arc for him freeing her from one of the Sea Princes and be done with it perhaps...
But I ultimately want my players to be happy and satisfied with the story they were a part of, and don't want to be limited to re-writing an anime arc for one character that doesn't really fit (or care to fit) into the world.
Have you guys had a player like this? And is there any advice that you have?
I could just say no to the character for this campaign but he was really excited to play this character and I have a hard time shutting people down.
The player sounds annoying. His idea of fun is encroaching on everyone else’s and he is selfishly taking everyone along for the ride. Luckily, you have a very easy out: He finds her 10 minutes into the first session. Time for his new character.
I’m afraid that you’ll just have to steel yourself and tell your friend he needs to come up with a different character. I’ve never had anything that extreme, but I did have a guy whose new characters were all clones of the last one with different names, and I didn’t say no because I was too nice. I then regretted it for the rest of the campaign. I made the same mistake when one player wanted to play a guy in a baby’s body, which the other players really didn’t like. So I know how you feel, but trust me, it’s easier to deal with one disappointed player now than a disappointed group later.
On a related note, remember, you’re not just making this call for you. Anyone at your table who cares about verisimilitude will really have their experience ruined by a character straight out of an anime (especially if, like me, they don’t like anime in the first place). So you may need to do this to protect other people’s fun.
The best advice I can give is to talk to your friend as a friend, and be as honest as possible. Don’t sound super serious, but be firm. If he gets defensive, don’t engage him, just tell him it’s not fun for others. (He can’t really argue with that.) Good luck! You got this!
The player sounds annoying. His idea of fun is encroaching on everyone else’s and he is selfishly taking everyone along for the ride. Luckily, you have a very easy out: He finds her 10 minutes into the first session. Time for his new character.
It's a bit passive-aggressive, but yeah I might do this too depending on other circumstances. Maybe not 10 minutes in, but throw in this woman as an NPC as a prisoner of something you were going to have the party fight anyway and conclude the story arc with as little fanfare as possible. Then suggest his next character be someone who aligns with the group.
But honestly this is a player issue not a character one, and thus the real solution is out-of-game communication. I'd say something like it's clear they're not very engaged in the campaign and ask if they have suggestions on what I could do differently. If they said something like "do my character arc," remind them that there are 4 other people at the table and the game needs to include all of them. If he can't get on board with that, maybe his time is better spent playing SAO rather than D&D.
The other players seem happy with being pirates and getting their own fleets, hunting dragon turtles and chasing moving islands, but this one player says all he wants is for Kirito to find Asuna, then his character will leave the group and he can roll up another one.
He is a great player, but during my one shot he was on his phone, disengaged, would ask if someone saw a woman, then go back to his phone when he heard no.
I'm not familiar with the Anime in question, but I'm going to assume that the character Kirito has a ridiculous obsession and cares for nothing else which is why the player isn't engaging in anything else. That being said, I have to question why this player is doing this? I can actually see it being interesting having a character who is totally focused on one goal to the exclusion of everything else with the interesting thing being what happens when they have achieved that goal and have nothing to focus on. What does that character do next, who are they now. To quote Idigo Montoya "Is very strange. I have been in the revenge business so long, now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life."
But that doesn't sound like what this player is going for since they said they want to abandon the character once they have achieved their goal. So it might be worth asking the player, are you enjoying this character at all? It might be they thought they had a cool idea, and then realized it wasn't fun to play. If that's the case, let them roll up the new character. It's not narratively difficult to let the other character leave. Basically they could just run into Asuna on the street.
I wouldn't however reward this player by giving them a personal quest to find Asuna. If they aren't going to help the other characters out with their goals, why should those characters help him? I think quests based around one character and their backstory can be great, but those players need to understand that the whole campaign isn't about them. They need to participate in those character's stories as well.
So if the player insists they are really bought into this idea, maybe suggest to them that what they need to do to accomplish their goal is to work with the other players so they will have someone to help them out. As a reward for playing along with the others you could then give a vital clue as to where Asuna was. But right now this player isn't a good player. They aren't participating in a social experience with everyone else. Either they want out, or they are being really selfish.
I think Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride is actually an excellent reference to coach this player how to have an intense backstory driver that nonetheless allows the PC to integrate with the rest of the characters. Montoya's quest was important to the character's core, but the character still played well with the rest of the party, so to speak. Maybe they think they're playing the character for laughs and, as some varieties of TTRPG jokesters tend, doesn't realize the joke eventually drags the game. The _character_ can have an obsession, but like most people with obsessions, doesn't have the luxury to truly do nothing but pursue that obsession. So the work of the _player_ is to recognize the obsession as a motivation that must be incorporated into the goals of the rest of the group.
Otherwise, you can have the more difficult convo of saying, "Yeah, I didn't like how that character played out, pulled too much focus away from the more group driven events. Maybe try something else?"
I agree catering to the player deprives the rest of the ensemble. Really TTRPGs lean heavily on an unspoken expectation for the players to know how to "take turns," so to speak, and so requires a level of social maturity that isn't in everyone's strong suit but can be learned. It sounds like this player, when its their turn, wants to leap out of their seat at the table and chase after a side quest that's almost an entirely different game. And completely re-enacting an anime layered over the table's game is side-showing that wants to have all the ring master's attention.
the player mentioned bringing Kirito back in his search for Asuna.... says all he wants is for Kirito to find Asuna, then his character will leave the group and he can roll up another one.
Don't do it. Trust me.
I would say if you are going to roll up another character anyway, do it now. This is not whatever anime this character came from, and I am not going to run that anime. This is Ghosts of Saltmarsh. There is no Asuna in this world. Please make up another character.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The player sounds annoying. His idea of fun is encroaching on everyone else’s and he is selfishly taking everyone along for the ride. Luckily, you have a very easy out: He finds her 10 minutes into the first session. Time for his new character.
It's a bit passive-aggressive, but yeah I might do this too depending on other circumstances. Maybe not 10 minutes in, but throw in this woman as an NPC as a prisoner of something you were going to have the party fight anyway and conclude the story arc with as little fanfare as possible. Then suggest his next character be someone who aligns with the group.
But honestly this is a player issue not a character one, and thus the real solution is out-of-game communication. I'd say something like it's clear they're not very engaged in the campaign and ask if they have suggestions on what I could do differently. If they said something like "do my character arc," remind them that there are 4 other people at the table and the game needs to include all of them. If he can't get on board with that, maybe his time is better spent playing SAO rather than D&D.
You're right. That is passive aggressive. Do what the other people said and have a talk with the player about the situation.
Personally, I don't get this whole phenomenon of re-creating characters from anime. I get being influenced, but trying to just make someone else's character down to every detail just leaves me cold. Tell your own story, as Biowizard says. Of course, I am kind of old. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go tell some kids to get off my lawn.
Hey guys, thank you all so much for responding and giving advice!
I plucked up the courage and reached out to him again about making some changes to his character.
He said he really enjoyed the session and wanted to see how the character developed, and that he intended Kirito to be a "solo player at first but was actually timid and would warm up the party in time." (Something that at least gives us goals to work forward to co-op wise)
I was able to work with him on a more original background than recreating a carbon copy of the anime, and a more suitable story about his search for Asuna (Helped by ScatterBraind's suggestion!)
I also loved the Inigo Montoya angle, I think we could definitely work with that too to give him more life that a Kirito Clone.
He at least seemed engaged and happy to make his character dynamic and more willing to interact with the world beyond finding his "waifu."
Thank you guys again for the encouragement! I hope to see you around on the board!
Honestly he just sounds like a selfish player. He wants to be the center of attention, or he has no interest. He seems to almost be asking to get kicked out of the game, because he’s not that interested in playing, but will do it if you owe him a favor in return. You have four other good players. Cut the dead weight.
That sounds a bit harsh. The player may not want to RP the death of his character's "waifu." Now, death can happen by die rolls, and that is always a possibility. But death from die rolls or failing an ability check that could have succeeded, is not the same thing as death by DM fiat. I would not put her into the game with the intent of just killing her off.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
As a plot twist, I'd make the woman with orange hair the BBEG in a side-plot. rather than have her captured or killed, have an unknown figure start interfering, causing bad things to happen. Once the party is hooked into this, introduce her as the bad guy and see what he wants to do. just letting him find her or killing her is a feel-bad way to go, as he is probably wanting something a little more fleshed out.
Potential: She encountered a sphinx when she was travelling and was sent back in time. She turned herself into a Lich to last long enough to see him again, but lost the part of her soul that loved him in doing so. Now she's a queen of the undead and is doing bad lich-type things and must be stopped.
Making her a major villain is OK if that is what the DM wants to do.
However, my read of this situation is that the DM really doesn't want to make this character's "waifu" a major focus of the campaign. The player shouldn't be allowed to force the DM to make an entire BBEG and plot for that BBEG just because of a background element. It's OK if the DM is fine with it, but not if the DM has other villains already set up for the campaign.
Remember, the DM is using Saltmarsh -- and although the DM didn't specifically say, if the Ghosts of Saltmarsh is being used, that book already has villains, quests, side-quests, and the like, embedded within. Maybe the DM is not inclined to invent from whole cloth an entirely new, out-of-theme villain for a traditional D&D world. The DM should not be forced to inject this unthematic material into the campaign to please a single player -- especially not when the rest of the table has , perhaps deliberately, signed up to play in Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
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Hello! I am new to the forums so I am sorry if I am posting in the wrong area...
I am at least an intermediate DM with 3 campaigns seen to the end twice with two different groups, and several one shots. I am working on writing a 4th one for my current group but I have run into an interesting road block.
The four players are usually well engaged, good at roleplaying, and have rapport with each other. Recently I ran a one shot where one of the players made Kirito from Sword Art Online, dual swords, magic armored trench coat, and a one track mind of finding "A woman with orange hair."
He had his eyes set on this goal so much that he would abstain from fights or attempt to cause them if the location or people didn't further this goal in telling him about the woman with orange hair. (I.e. punching a dancer who invited him to dance with a group of reveling fae.)
I hadn't worked this idea into my script because I was aware he was playing a "Kirito-Like" character, but not Kirito exactly.
We completed the one shot, he didn't find the orange haired girl, he got on a ship and sailed off of the island.
Now I am working on a new campaign using Saltmarsh as a background, and the Sea Princes as the main faction to join or dismantle, and the player mentioned bringing Kirito back in his search for Asuna.
The other players seem happy with being pirates and getting their own fleets, hunting dragon turtles and chasing moving islands, but this one player says all he wants is for Kirito to find Asuna, then his character will leave the group and he can roll up another one.
He is a great player, but during my one shot he was on his phone, disengaged, would ask if someone saw a woman, then go back to his phone when he heard no.
I want this new campaign to keep everyone engaged and happy but I don't necessarily want to cater to one player with a Sword Art Online fantasy, even if he says his character will leave afterwards.
I said he could play Kirito if he can find other motivations besides just finding Asuna so he can stay engaged in the world, but it didn't seem to stick as he joked about beating a dragon turtle and making it tell him where the orange hair woman was.
I could give him Asuna within the first 4 or 5 sessions with a mini arc for him freeing her from one of the Sea Princes and be done with it perhaps...
But I ultimately want my players to be happy and satisfied with the story they were a part of, and don't want to be limited to re-writing an anime arc for one character that doesn't really fit (or care to fit) into the world.
Have you guys had a player like this? And is there any advice that you have?
I could just say no to the character for this campaign but he was really excited to play this character and I have a hard time shutting people down.
The player sounds annoying. His idea of fun is encroaching on everyone else’s and he is selfishly taking everyone along for the ride. Luckily, you have a very easy out: He finds her 10 minutes into the first session. Time for his new character.
I’m afraid that you’ll just have to steel yourself and tell your friend he needs to come up with a different character. I’ve never had anything that extreme, but I did have a guy whose new characters were all clones of the last one with different names, and I didn’t say no because I was too nice. I then regretted it for the rest of the campaign. I made the same mistake when one player wanted to play a guy in a baby’s body, which the other players really didn’t like. So I know how you feel, but trust me, it’s easier to deal with one disappointed player now than a disappointed group later.
On a related note, remember, you’re not just making this call for you. Anyone at your table who cares about verisimilitude will really have their experience ruined by a character straight out of an anime (especially if, like me, they don’t like anime in the first place). So you may need to do this to protect other people’s fun.
The best advice I can give is to talk to your friend as a friend, and be as honest as possible. Don’t sound super serious, but be firm. If he gets defensive, don’t engage him, just tell him it’s not fun for others. (He can’t really argue with that.) Good luck! You got this!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
It's a bit passive-aggressive, but yeah I might do this too depending on other circumstances. Maybe not 10 minutes in, but throw in this woman as an NPC as a prisoner of something you were going to have the party fight anyway and conclude the story arc with as little fanfare as possible. Then suggest his next character be someone who aligns with the group.
But honestly this is a player issue not a character one, and thus the real solution is out-of-game communication. I'd say something like it's clear they're not very engaged in the campaign and ask if they have suggestions on what I could do differently. If they said something like "do my character arc," remind them that there are 4 other people at the table and the game needs to include all of them. If he can't get on board with that, maybe his time is better spent playing SAO rather than D&D.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I'm not familiar with the Anime in question, but I'm going to assume that the character Kirito has a ridiculous obsession and cares for nothing else which is why the player isn't engaging in anything else. That being said, I have to question why this player is doing this? I can actually see it being interesting having a character who is totally focused on one goal to the exclusion of everything else with the interesting thing being what happens when they have achieved that goal and have nothing to focus on. What does that character do next, who are they now. To quote Idigo Montoya "Is very strange. I have been in the revenge business so long, now that it's over, I don't know what to do with the rest of my life."
But that doesn't sound like what this player is going for since they said they want to abandon the character once they have achieved their goal. So it might be worth asking the player, are you enjoying this character at all? It might be they thought they had a cool idea, and then realized it wasn't fun to play. If that's the case, let them roll up the new character. It's not narratively difficult to let the other character leave. Basically they could just run into Asuna on the street.
I wouldn't however reward this player by giving them a personal quest to find Asuna. If they aren't going to help the other characters out with their goals, why should those characters help him? I think quests based around one character and their backstory can be great, but those players need to understand that the whole campaign isn't about them. They need to participate in those character's stories as well.
So if the player insists they are really bought into this idea, maybe suggest to them that what they need to do to accomplish their goal is to work with the other players so they will have someone to help them out. As a reward for playing along with the others you could then give a vital clue as to where Asuna was. But right now this player isn't a good player. They aren't participating in a social experience with everyone else. Either they want out, or they are being really selfish.
I think Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride is actually an excellent reference to coach this player how to have an intense backstory driver that nonetheless allows the PC to integrate with the rest of the characters. Montoya's quest was important to the character's core, but the character still played well with the rest of the party, so to speak. Maybe they think they're playing the character for laughs and, as some varieties of TTRPG jokesters tend, doesn't realize the joke eventually drags the game. The _character_ can have an obsession, but like most people with obsessions, doesn't have the luxury to truly do nothing but pursue that obsession. So the work of the _player_ is to recognize the obsession as a motivation that must be incorporated into the goals of the rest of the group.
Otherwise, you can have the more difficult convo of saying, "Yeah, I didn't like how that character played out, pulled too much focus away from the more group driven events. Maybe try something else?"
I agree catering to the player deprives the rest of the ensemble. Really TTRPGs lean heavily on an unspoken expectation for the players to know how to "take turns," so to speak, and so requires a level of social maturity that isn't in everyone's strong suit but can be learned. It sounds like this player, when its their turn, wants to leap out of their seat at the table and chase after a side quest that's almost an entirely different game. And completely re-enacting an anime layered over the table's game is side-showing that wants to have all the ring master's attention.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Don't do it. Trust me.
I would say if you are going to roll up another character anyway, do it now. This is not whatever anime this character came from, and I am not going to run that anime. This is Ghosts of Saltmarsh. There is no Asuna in this world. Please make up another character.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
You're right. That is passive aggressive. Do what the other people said and have a talk with the player about the situation.
Personally, I don't get this whole phenomenon of re-creating characters from anime. I get being influenced, but trying to just make someone else's character down to every detail just leaves me cold. Tell your own story, as Biowizard says. Of course, I am kind of old. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go tell some kids to get off my lawn.
Hey guys, thank you all so much for responding and giving advice!
I plucked up the courage and reached out to him again about making some changes to his character.
He said he really enjoyed the session and wanted to see how the character developed, and that he intended Kirito to be a "solo player at first but was actually timid and would warm up the party in time." (Something that at least gives us goals to work forward to co-op wise)
I was able to work with him on a more original background than recreating a carbon copy of the anime, and a more suitable story about his search for Asuna (Helped by ScatterBraind's suggestion!)
I also loved the Inigo Montoya angle, I think we could definitely work with that too to give him more life that a Kirito Clone.
He at least seemed engaged and happy to make his character dynamic and more willing to interact with the world beyond finding his "waifu."
Thank you guys again for the encouragement! I hope to see you around on the board!
Great to hear it. Good luck!
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Honestly he just sounds like a selfish player. He wants to be the center of attention, or he has no interest. He seems to almost be asking to get kicked out of the game, because he’s not that interested in playing, but will do it if you owe him a favor in return. You have four other good players. Cut the dead weight.
Why not get her involved in the story and killed?
That sounds a bit harsh. The player may not want to RP the death of his character's "waifu." Now, death can happen by die rolls, and that is always a possibility. But death from die rolls or failing an ability check that could have succeeded, is not the same thing as death by DM fiat. I would not put her into the game with the intent of just killing her off.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Please let us know how it turns out.
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As a plot twist, I'd make the woman with orange hair the BBEG in a side-plot. rather than have her captured or killed, have an unknown figure start interfering, causing bad things to happen. Once the party is hooked into this, introduce her as the bad guy and see what he wants to do. just letting him find her or killing her is a feel-bad way to go, as he is probably wanting something a little more fleshed out.
Potential: She encountered a sphinx when she was travelling and was sent back in time. She turned herself into a Lich to last long enough to see him again, but lost the part of her soul that loved him in doing so. Now she's a queen of the undead and is doing bad lich-type things and must be stopped.
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Making her a major villain is OK if that is what the DM wants to do.
However, my read of this situation is that the DM really doesn't want to make this character's "waifu" a major focus of the campaign. The player shouldn't be allowed to force the DM to make an entire BBEG and plot for that BBEG just because of a background element. It's OK if the DM is fine with it, but not if the DM has other villains already set up for the campaign.
Remember, the DM is using Saltmarsh -- and although the DM didn't specifically say, if the Ghosts of Saltmarsh is being used, that book already has villains, quests, side-quests, and the like, embedded within. Maybe the DM is not inclined to invent from whole cloth an entirely new, out-of-theme villain for a traditional D&D world. The DM should not be forced to inject this unthematic material into the campaign to please a single player -- especially not when the rest of the table has , perhaps deliberately, signed up to play in Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.