Although it's okay to comment on multiclasses, I'd like to focus on the best singleclass gish.
I have not included the Battle Smith because in my opinion the flavor of the subclass is not what I am looking for in a gish. But you can comment if you think it can be a good gish. Same with other subclasses that you think can make good gish.
In my opinion: Hexblade: The best gish because you only need to max char, thus avoiding the MAD of the other subclasses. The possibility of using two-handed weapons (from level 3), and powerful Eldritch invocation, greatly increase the damage output. The Devil Sight + Darkness + GWM feat combo seems tremendous to me. And on top of that, the features of the subclass are perfect for a gish.
Blasesinger: As a flavor it is the one I like the most. By design it is the archetypal gish. However, it is the most MAD dependent gish. Its great advantage is the high AC you can get, and its concentration bonuses. Also the possibility, from level 6, to use multiattack with a cantrip. Plus, you're still a full wizard, with all your spell slots and huge list of spells. The problem is that almost all buff spells use concentration, which prevents you from having more than one at a time. Although on paper it's a great gish, in practice almost all of them end up being a common wizard who occasionally goes into melee. Still seems like the second best gish to me.
Eldritch Knight: Another archetypal gish. In fact it seems to me the reverse of the bladesinger. Where the bladesinger is a wizard that can be in melee, the eldritch knight is a fighter that can do magic. Starting at level 7 you can multiattack with a cantrip, but at the cost of your bonus action. They generally spend their limited spell slots on shield, which limits their versatility. The third in discord for me, but far from the other two.
Arcane Trickster: I have never used it, and the only one I have seen on the table was carried by a player who did not get much use out of it. So I don't have much to say about him. On paper it seems to me the worst of the four, but I would like to know the opinion of someone who has used it. It's perhaps the best gish to use as an infiltrator, though I honestly think the bladesiger or even an outlier Pact of the Chain hexblade can fill that role better.
What is your opinion? What is the best gish? I would also like to know your opinion on the best builds for a gish. Is a hexblade with sword and broad better, or one with a two-handed weapon? A bladesinger with two weapons + tensor transformation (or haste, or shadowblade, etc...), or better with a single weapon? What is, in your opinion, the best way to play an Eldritch Knight? Defensive or offensive? And anything you want to comment on, of course!
Originally, it was a term used to refer to multiclass fighter/magic-user (the old term for wizards) githyanki. I even remember that in the 2nd edition Planescape campaign setting the word Gish was given a meaning in the githyanki language (blessed I seem to remember). Nowadays it is used for any warrior/arcane caster hybrid.
Originally, it was a term used to refer to multiclass fighter/magic-user (the old term for wizards) githyanki. I even remember that in the 2nd edition Planescape campaign setting the word Gish was given a meaning in the githyanki language (blessed I seem to remember). Nowadays it is used for any warrior/arcane caster hybrid.
Not sure why you would restrict it to arcane casting. Why not include Paladin or Rangers, or even Sword/Valor Bards, War/Tempest Clerics or 4e/Shadow Monks? I don't think there is a "best" single class gish, rather, there are lots of chassis's on which you can build to attain your personal vision of a gish.
Hexblade is probably the best, glaive and polearm master, combined with darkness and devils sight is incredibly good. But. It’s been done to death. Every wannabe edgelord with delusions of being ‘da dps bozz’ has made them. They’ve been done to death and are quite boring. If that’s your thing sure, but expect he other players to get bored with you. And if you do it in a game I run then expect counterspell and dispel magic.
Personally I have played all 4, and had most fun with an arcane trickster. But don’t forget that a bard, cleric, ranger and druid could also make a gish build.
Well yes, I agree with you that hexblade has been and is played a lot. It is probably the build that I have found the most on the table, especially the hexadin. I actually played one. Also a bladesinger and an eldritch knight. I've always liked the Gish archetype, and I've played it in every edition.
What I don't agree with you is that you can make a Gish with druid, cleric, etc... I mean, really the concept is an "arcanist warrior". A cleric or paladin could be a "holy warrior", but not a Gish. And a druid... well, is a druid. With a bard, however, you could make a Gish. I don't like the flavor, the same thing I said about the artificer, but you can really do it.
I'd agree about the question about specifically 'Arcane' casters, because ultimately the titles of Arcane, Natural, and Divine magics are completely flavor in this edition of dnd. You could totally make an arcane druid, the same way you could do a holy wizard, or a nature paladin.
All of that said, I'm pretty sure that the 'most gish-like' of your choices would be the Bladesinger wizard because, to the best of my understanding, Gish are suppose to be able to hit and spell at the same time/on the same turn which is a class feature of the Bladesinger with a much more diverse option pool than the others. Also isn't it just like, busted with adding Int to everything or am i remembering the old version of the subclass?
My biggest problem with Hexblade (aside from the fact that it's a bit overplayed) is the 6th level "Accursed Specter" ability... not that it's a terrible feature or anything, but it feels incredibly arbitrary as a primary class feature. I think that's partly why Hexblade is so often used as a single level dip just to get Hex Warrior... people want the class just because it lets you attack with Charisma, and don't want to deal with the hassle of either managing this specter in combat, or if they just can't justify, in-character, why their character is comfortable with ripping the spirit out of a dead body and forcing it into service.
Anyway, don't underestimate Arcane Trickster. I feel like it doesn't quite accomplish the feeling of a "Gish" like the other classes do, largely because Arcane Tricksters rarely need to use magic in combat... instead, it's most useful for them to use as utility for out of combat. Part of the reason is because, as a means of dealing damage, sneak attack will outclass most of the leveled attack spells they gain access to as a half-caster with a limited choice of magic schools, but at the very least they can comfortably snag one of the blade-cantrips, which stacks with sneak attack. Booming Blade pairs perfectly with a class that can deal sneak attack damage, and then disengage, forcing many enemies to eat the additional thunder damage if they want to retaliate.
I agree. The most Gish thing on that list is the bladesinger. Also the eldritch knight, since that is the design intent.
Regarding which one is mechanically better, which I think is what the OP intends to ask, I don't think that the hexblade is necessarily better than the bladesinger. It's much easier to play and can do a lot of damage without having to think too much. However, the bladesinger is infinitely more versatile. You are a wizard, and your magic will allow you to fulfill almost any role in the party. The damage is more flashy, of course, and that's why it's rare to find a wizard who doesn't have a fireball always ready. But the wizard list allows you to eliminate enemies without having to hit them. In addition to the incredible options you have for any other situation, be it social, exploration, or whatever.
In short, you can't objectively say that hexblade is better than bladesinger. You'll probably do more damage per turn (although a well-played bladesinger can do that too), but the bladesinger gives you a lot more options, and is capable of having solutions for almost any situation. Like any wizard.
I'll flip it a bit and list what I see as each builds "weakness," or rather what makes them not quite feel like a gish.
Hexblade - As Transmorpher said, the specter thing at 6 is weird and doesn't fit. And I had to look up the later features because I have literally never seen a hexblade that stays a hexblade. It is very front-loaded and mechanically robust, but its also very thematically weak and kind of all over the place. What even is a hexblade's patron? Every other warlock sub, that's immediately apparent just by the name. Mechanically, the issues with being a gish is that your spells are extremely limited so you tend to end up focusing on one gimmick, and Eldritch Blast is so good that you're often better off building around that.
Bladesinger - The biggest "weakness" here is that a bladesinger is a full wizard. This means that just standing back and casting spells is often going to be much more effective than swinging your sword. This build is fun, but at later levels you are actively nerfing yourself by being in melee. As such, it's just too far on the caster side to be a satisfying gish.
Eldritch Knight - The reverse of the bladesinger. EK is best played as a straight-up fighter that uses their slots for things like Shield that don't care about your INT score. It's rarely going to be any good at casting spells that actually target enemies. It ends up feeling like a fighter with fighter-type features that happen to be spells.
Arcane Trickster - Also covered by Transmorpher, rogues are built to maneuver and Sneak Attack in combat and there's not much room to fit other stuff in. Their spells are a phenomenal enhancement to their skillset, but trying to use them in a battle is almost never optimal. Which doesn't make them feel much like a gish.
You didn't include bards, but many people also consider Valor/Blades/Whispers bards to be gishes. I'll just say that they all have the bladesinger problem but worse. They just aren't ever going to be competitive in melee, and the class in general is not meant to be dealing damage. You just have to fight against so many better options to do it, and the result is mediocre at best.
And whether you like them or not, I do feel that artificers are probably the best chassis for a good gish, as they have the appropriate balance between melee prowess and spellcasting. But the flavor is so strong that it can be hard to override all that. And it still doesn't do quite what I'd want.
So all of them have issues in my mind. The nice thing is that they cover a lot of different bases, so that you can pick the one that best fits what you want to do.
What comes clear when looking over what I wrote here is that every single one of these weaknesses is linked to the main class. Bladesinger is just too much of a wizard. Eldritch Knight is too much of a fighter. Pure hexblade benefits the most by investing in more traditional warlock methods. Until there is an actual class devoted to being a gish, all of our options are going to be fighting against (or giving in to) their main class design to some extent. I think hexblade is often seen as the ideal because warlock is the most modular class, and thus the least well-defined in terms of what it means to be a warlock.
Honestly for me the best Gish is a ranger. Specifically a Hunter or Monster Slayer (though Horizon Walker is my favorite). If we talking hypothetical though I think a Melee focused Artificer could be an amazing Gish. I know we have Battle master and the armorer but both of those support ranged and defensive tactics. I don't think it would be out of place at all to have an artificer subclass that would be able to use spells to empower their attacks or make attacks that empower their ability to cast spells.
You forgot artificer. It has proficiency in con saves for concentration in melee, has weapon/armor proficiencies, and can use its infused weapon/shield as a focus. The battle smith even has a single ability dependant feature so only INT needs maxed (not to mention the pet that acts as a meat shield, gives a bonus action attack, and can give enemies disadvantage).
I say bladesinger though. The +int AC and an extra attack that lets you cast cantrips is very gish. All while being the most versatile full caster class.
scatterbraind post is really interesting, and I agree that the main problem with those subclasses is that you're almost always going to be better off acting as your base class. The warlock's Eldritch Blast, with his eldritch invocations, and his control spells, is too good to ignore as a warlock. A mid-high level Wizard has spells that can define a fight much more than just swinging a sword. Etc... However, the fun of the Gish is to play those classes differently (although with the warlock it is the other way around due to the immense amount of hexblades that are seen on the table, but that is part of the metagame). In any case I understand what you mean, and you are right.
Regarding the artificer, I already mentioned it in the initial post. Mechanically it sounds like a great Gish to me, but to me the class doesn't have that flavor. Obviously you can take the class as a mechanical corset, and reskin it. You can also do it with the ranger to, for example, make yourself a Geralt of Rivia (mechanically the best class to emulate that character). I personally don't like to do that kind of thing at all, as I think RPGs (and classes in this particular case) are designed to give you a specific flavor. I understand that there are people who like to do those things, but I prefer to invest my creativity in making an interesting character with what the game gives me narratively. The other thing really takes me out of the immersion. It's something personal, and other people can see it differently, of course. It also happens that, after many decades playing RPGs, I have found too many times that those reskins end up emptying the game thematically, until turning it into a gray mush. There are people who know how to do it well, of course, but most people continue to play ranger, or whatever, as if they played any other ranger. And the only thing that is gish is the miniature or the token.
the arcane trickster occupies this weird space where it's features and spells are used to augment the rogue chassis rather than expanding on it. Mage hand? Used to pick locks or disarm traps better from afar. Find familiar? Used to scout better. Disguise self/invisibility/nystul's magic aura? Used to infiltrate better.
Now, the same might be said about the EK, but the EK has more options. It's first and foremost a top-tier martial. If and when spellcasting is no longer a viable option, you have your reliable attacks. War Magic makes it that so long as you meet the requirements to proc your secondary SCAGtrip damage, you'll be fine. But when you don't, you can just use extra attack. The AT rogue has no such option. If it's familiar dies in combat, it's ability to independently generate advantage and sneak attack goes out the window. If the AT wants to use booming blade, their bonus action will almost always be used on disengage, but they may not have enough movement to go both in and out-- could be fixed by the mobile feat, but that's already making things too reliant on external factors.
Now, mechanically speaking, the bladesinger is perhaps the strongest single class gish without a doubt. It has the best spells and an excellent melee option with it's special version of extra attack. While the bladesinger IS mad, it isn't requiring any real investment. If you start with a 16 in DEX (and you'll want to for various reasons) and leave it there your whole career, you'll be more or less fine! Heck, you'll probably cap it to 20 anyways if you're in for the long haul. However, just because it's the strongest doesn't mean it's the best gish, and this is 100% due to the problem that as you get to higher levels, the damage you'll do with attacking melee+cantrips just doesn't seem reasonable when you can easily chuck a fireball without thinking too hard about it. You'll have the resources to stay back at a distance while outperforming the melee aspects of your gish capabilities. That's why it's not the best gish.
Hexblade is a better gish than bladesinger but it still has its own problems. For one, I think a gish is awesome when they use their melee abilities to good use, but if we're talking honestly, the hexblade will need to use gwm to optimize their melee, and that means relying entirely on your medium armor's AC to protect you... which I don't think is much. The most realistic way we'll fix that is by relying on spells like darkness or shadow of moil to grant us both advantage and impose disadvantage on enemies, but even that has its own issues such as obstructing team mates especially other martials with darkness or even taking up an entire action to set up. Second, building a gish hexblade means you'll almost certainly take pact of the blade, and while there's nothing wrong with that, it doesn't feel as magical as other pact boons. Warlocks are awesome because you can get all sorts of goodies with your invocations. I can build one warlock to be an infiltrator with pact of the chain and invocations like mask of many faces, and that's incredibly badass. But, the hexblade will almost certainly be taking their invocations to improve their melee abilities. Agonizing blast is a must, and if you want to optimize your melee, you'll want improved pact weapon at lvl 3. Then at 5 you'll have to take thirsting blade. Then at 7, maaaybe eldritch smite. But by then you've not left yourself much room for neat utility invocations like misty visions or repelling blast or eldritch mind or beast speech, or mask of many faces or even devils sight. It's all been used up just so we can tick off the melee's essentials checkboxes.
So, for the least amount of headaches and best fulfillment of the gish fantasy, I think EK's the best. You start off with heavy armor, and you can use a fighting style to increase your AC. So, you're sufficiently tanky no matter especially if you take the shield spell. As mentioned before, your melee capabilities are top of the line. Though, that said, I feel that fey touched is an absolute must on EK's. Your limited spell selection and progression hurts really bad, but fey touched alleviates both those things. Plus, you can augment your abilities with something like hex as your fey touched spell to be even more magical and more damaging, and it could potentially help out your casting stat. That's awesome! I could build an EK to have fey touched, 18 str, and GWM by lvl 8. Sure, you don't achieve a 20 in your main stat, but 18's very livable and fey touched's hex makes up for the STR.
First, the reason why Gish is Arcane, is that Arcane is more general - about all magic, while Divine is almost always focused on something - either support or nature,.
Secondly, the main class is more important often than the subclass when it comes to Gish. There is a huge difference between a caster that fights and a fighter that casts.
If you want a caster that fights, you have to be a Wizards or Sorcerer. Especially if you like the Tenser's Transformation spell. Hard to get a 6th level spell if you are not a Wizard/Sorcerer.
If you think of yourself as exactly in the middle, then Wizard/Sorcerer is the way to go because the ability to cast magic is more limited than the ability to fight
If you want to be a fighter that casts, then the other classes are better.
A Gish Sorcerer would be hard to pull off without multiclassing or relying heavily on feats. So here's my best take...
First of all, you need to play as a race that gains proficiency with a martial weapon, since Sorcerer doesn't give you proficiency in any decent weapons... something like Dwarf or, probably better for this build, Elf.
Next, you want to take the Draconic Bloodline... there's a couple reasons for this, but mostly you want it for Draconic Resilience. Sorcerers don't get ANY armor proficiencies, but Draconic Resilience gives you AC of 13+DEX... that's why we want Elf over Dwarf. All Elves don't get Elf Weapon Training, but they all at least get a +2 to DEX. So Going Elf means you get proficiency in Short Swords... a Finesse Weapon that allows you to attack with DEX, which you're going to want extra high anyway.
From there, you need to pick a Dracon Ancestor... pick Brass, Gold, or Red, because it grants you bonuses to Fire-based spells eventually. Then take Green Flame Blade as a Cantrip. You'll never get Extra Attack, so instead you'll just be trying to deal as much damage as possible with this Cantrip.
As for Metamagic, here are the two that will do the most to help with this build... Quickened Spell allows you to cast spells as a bonus action, but even with bonus actions you can't cast more than one leveled spell per turn. So with Quickened Spell you can still drop some control or AOE spells, then get in a quickened Green Flame Blade, or even just make two Green Flame Blade spells in one round. You might also want Seeking Spell... since you only get one swing of your sword per round, in case you miss this gives you the opportunity to re-roll so your turn isn't wasted. Empowered Spell is also handy to hold onto just in case you roll terribly on damage, but it's probably better saved for your bigger spells than just using it to bump up GFB.
After that you're going to want to focus on spells that boost your survivability or damage. Absorb Elements is a good one... unless I'm misreading it, you can still combine it with Green Flame Blade, since GFB specifically lets you make a melee attack that functions as a regular melee attack with no restriction that other modifiers can't apply to it, so it still gets the damage boost combined with the extra damage from GFB. False Life might save your sweet patoot, since you've only got a d6 for a Hit Die, so anything that grants Temp HP is a huge boon. Another important spell is Shield, because you really, really don't want to take any hits, if you can help it. You might be better at Melee combat than the average sorcerer, but you're still not built for taking a lot of hits. Silvery Barbs might be superior to Shield... you'd probably be best off taking both and just choosing which one to use depending on circumstances.
The thing I'm not totally sure about is whether or not Flame Blade or Shadow Blade can be combined with GFB... ideally, either of those spells will be your go-to and probably replace your regular weapon as often as possible, but I know GFB has some rule about needing the weapon used in the casting of the spell to have an SP value... I've heard that was just to make it specifically so it couldn't be combined with spells like these, but if not, that's a solid combo. If that's not allowed, then Magic Weapon is the next best option... Magic Weapon might be a little more useful, if only because it's duration is an hour, which makes it easier to get more out of it.
In general, just all those spells that let you attempt to keep up with the dedicated martial classes. The hard part is managing concentration... Stoneskin is a smart spell to cast for yourself, but it's concentration, so you can't combine it with the weapon-spells I mentioned earlier.
Anyway, this isn't a great build. You won't be a reliable melee damage dealer in your group, but if you get in the Shadow Blade and Green Flame Blade Combo, by 11th level you can upcast Shadow Blade to deal 4d8+DEX Modifier damage with every attack, then use it to cast GFB, which adds an additional 2d8+CHA Modifer to that (and 2d8+2xCHA Modifier to some rando standing next to whoever you're actually attacking). Let's assume a CHA and DEX score of at least 18...4d8+4Psychic+2d8+4Fire, and you can use 2 Sorcery Points to make that same attack twice in a round. So that averages out to 76 damage, which is a solid damage output, although it requires a round of setup, and you need to maintain concentration on your Shadow Blade.
For feats I would recommend Warcaster... keep up concentration more easily, makes it easier to cast magic while holding a weapon (not that you'll ever have both hands occupied in the first place), and being able to cast spells as an opportunity attack gives you more chances to land blade-cantrips on enemies... you can't combine it with GFB, though, because GFB can target multiple creatures. However, Booming Blade is much meaner combined with this feat, since the enemies movement will trigger the additional damage. You still won't be good as a traditional fighter and it's only the blade cantrips that makes this a Gish instead of just a regular sorcerer, but it's something.
TransmorpherDDS, yes, I tried to make a build very similar to that a long time ago and it didn't work very well (I was DMing that game, but a player asked me to make a Sorcerer Gish for him and that's all I could think of). That's why I was asking, in case there was a sorcerer subclass that could work like Gish. Perhaps I had overlooked it. Maybe at some point they'll release a "Gish" subclass for the sorcerer. But until then, the only good option I've seen is multiclassing with a paladin.
A Gish Sorcerer would be hard to pull off without multiclassing or relying heavily on feats. So here's my best take...
First of all, you need to play as a race that gains proficiency with a martial weapon, since Sorcerer doesn't give you proficiency in any decent weapons... something like Dwarf or, probably better for this build, Elf.
Next, you want to take the Draconic Bloodline... there's a couple reasons for this, but mostly you want it for Draconic Resilience. Sorcerers don't get ANY armor proficiencies, but Draconic Resilience gives you AC of 13+DEX... that's why we want Elf over Dwarf. All Elves don't get Elf Weapon Training, but they all at least get a +2 to DEX. So Going Elf means you get proficiency in Short Swords... a Finesse Weapon that allows you to attack with DEX, which you're going to want extra high anyway.
From there, you need to pick a Dracon Ancestor... pick Brass, Gold, or Red, because it grants you bonuses to Fire-based spells eventually. Then take Green Flame Blade as a Cantrip. You'll never get Extra Attack, so instead you'll just be trying to deal as much damage as possible with this Cantrip.
As for Metamagic, here are the two that will do the most to help with this build... Quickened Spell allows you to cast spells as a bonus action, but even with bonus actions you can't cast more than one leveled spell per turn. So with Quickened Spell you can still drop some control or AOE spells, then get in a quickened Green Flame Blade, or even just make two Green Flame Blade spells in one round. You might also want Seeking Spell... since you only get one swing of your sword per round, in case you miss this gives you the opportunity to re-roll so your turn isn't wasted. Empowered Spell is also handy to hold onto just in case you roll terribly on damage, but it's probably better saved for your bigger spells than just using it to bump up GFB.
After that you're going to want to focus on spells that boost your survivability or damage. Absorb Elements is a good one... unless I'm misreading it, you can still combine it with Green Flame Blade, since GFB specifically lets you make a melee attack that functions as a regular melee attack with no restriction that other modifiers can't apply to it, so it still gets the damage boost combined with the extra damage from GFB. False Life might save your sweet patoot, since you've only got a d6 for a Hit Die, so anything that grants Temp HP is a huge boon. Another important spell is Shield, because you really, really don't want to take any hits, if you can help it. You might be better at Melee combat than the average sorcerer, but you're still not built for taking a lot of hits. Silvery Barbs might be superior to Shield... you'd probably be best off taking both and just choosing which one to use depending on circumstances.
The thing I'm not totally sure about is whether or not Flame Blade or Shadow Blade can be combined with GFB... ideally, either of those spells will be your go-to and probably replace your regular weapon as often as possible, but I know GFB has some rule about needing the weapon used in the casting of the spell to have an SP value... I've heard that was just to make it specifically so it couldn't be combined with spells like these, but if not, that's a solid combo. If that's not allowed, then Magic Weapon is the next best option... Magic Weapon might be a little more useful, if only because it's duration is an hour, which makes it easier to get more out of it.
In general, just all those spells that let you attempt to keep up with the dedicated martial classes. The hard part is managing concentration... Stoneskin is a smart spell to cast for yourself, but it's concentration, so you can't combine it with the weapon-spells I mentioned earlier.
Anyway, this isn't a great build. You won't be a reliable melee damage dealer in your group, but if you get in the Shadow Blade and Green Flame Blade Combo, by 11th level you can upcast Shadow Blade to deal 4d8+DEX Modifier damage with every attack, then use it to cast GFB, which adds an additional 2d8+CHA Modifer to that (and 2d8+2xCHA Modifier to some rando standing next to whoever you're actually attacking). Let's assume a CHA and DEX score of at least 18...4d8+4Psychic+2d8+4Fire, and you can use 2 Sorcery Points to make that same attack twice in a round. So that averages out to 76 damage, which is a solid damage output, although it requires a round of setup, and you need to maintain concentration on your Shadow Blade.
For feats I would recommend Warcaster... keep up concentration more easily, makes it easier to cast magic while holding a weapon (not that you'll ever have both hands occupied in the first place), and being able to cast spells as an opportunity attack gives you more chances to land blade-cantrips on enemies... you can't combine it with GFB, though, because GFB can target multiple creatures. However, Booming Blade is much meaner combined with this feat, since the enemies movement will trigger the additional damage. You still won't be good as a traditional fighter and it's only the blade cantrips that makes this a Gish instead of just a regular sorcerer, but it's something.
It should be noted that Draconic Bloodline also gives an extra HP per sorcerer level, effectively putting this subclass 1 HP behind a d8 hit die (from first level) when using fixed.
Getting Hill Dwarf for the HP gain would put you 2 HP behind a D10. You wouldn't have a finesse weapon better than a dagger, but you'd only be 1 average damage off of a shortsword. The con bonus would be nice for your HP, but you'd need Tasha's to get your wisdom changed to either strength, dexterity, or charisma. If you went with a strength build, you'd be pretty mad, but could use a Warhammer or battleaxe instead. A strength build would be better served with a mountain dwarf, considering that they get the same weapon proficiency, medium armor proficiency, and a +2 to strength and constitution. You could start with a 16 strength and a 15 charisma and constitution with standard array, or you could choose to have a 17, 16 and 13 across the three. Going with medium armor does render the ac calculation from draconic resilience moot, though the HP bonus would still be helpful. If you chose to go with a different subclass, you'd be stuck as a d6 without feats. Sadly, the ability to wear heavy armor without the strength required doesn't help here since you won't have proficiency without a multiclass or feat. Without proficiency, you can't cast while wearing it.
The options pointed out by Transmorpher are likely better outside of choosing Hill Dwarf for even more HP at the cost of 1 avg damage per weapon attack and that's likely only better for an all sorcerer party that needs a quasi tank...
As for other subclasses, a brief check over 1st and 6th level features and spell lists left me not feeling very inspired. Clockwork Soul could give some help at 6th level with Bastian of Law and Restore Balance could help prevent a few attacks against you with advantage, but the subclass doesn't help much otherwise. Divine Soul could make you a little more sturdy with empowered healing and more likely to hit with Favored by the Gods, but isn't much better than clockwork Soul. Shadow magic could be interesting, but most people I've talked to say that Eyes of the Dark's seeing through Darkness that you cast with a spell point requires not being in the darkness, preventing the Devil's Sight usage Warlocks have. Storm Sorcery is geared more to melee range, but it requires at least a 1st level spell to activate tempestuous magic and heart of the storm, the former requiring the usage of your bonus action to activate.
Wild Magic actually has some potential with Tides of Chaos providing advantage for you (need your DM to buy in and let you roll on your Wild Magic Surge table all the time for the refresh though). Bend Luck could be used defensively and Wild Magic Surge would add to the feel of a gish once you've hit third level and can cast a spell and a cantrip during the same turn with metamagic. Still, it's heavily reliant on the DM's cooperation and some of the potential fall out from Surge could be counterproductive.
Although it's okay to comment on multiclasses, I'd like to focus on the best singleclass gish.
I have not included the Battle Smith because in my opinion the flavor of the subclass is not what I am looking for in a gish. But you can comment if you think it can be a good gish. Same with other subclasses that you think can make good gish.
In my opinion:
Hexblade: The best gish because you only need to max char, thus avoiding the MAD of the other subclasses. The possibility of using two-handed weapons (from level 3), and powerful Eldritch invocation, greatly increase the damage output. The Devil Sight + Darkness + GWM feat combo seems tremendous to me. And on top of that, the features of the subclass are perfect for a gish.
Blasesinger: As a flavor it is the one I like the most. By design it is the archetypal gish. However, it is the most MAD dependent gish. Its great advantage is the high AC you can get, and its concentration bonuses. Also the possibility, from level 6, to use multiattack with a cantrip. Plus, you're still a full wizard, with all your spell slots and huge list of spells. The problem is that almost all buff spells use concentration, which prevents you from having more than one at a time. Although on paper it's a great gish, in practice almost all of them end up being a common wizard who occasionally goes into melee. Still seems like the second best gish to me.
Eldritch Knight: Another archetypal gish. In fact it seems to me the reverse of the bladesinger. Where the bladesinger is a wizard that can be in melee, the eldritch knight is a fighter that can do magic. Starting at level 7 you can multiattack with a cantrip, but at the cost of your bonus action. They generally spend their limited spell slots on shield, which limits their versatility. The third in discord for me, but far from the other two.
Arcane Trickster: I have never used it, and the only one I have seen on the table was carried by a player who did not get much use out of it. So I don't have much to say about him. On paper it seems to me the worst of the four, but I would like to know the opinion of someone who has used it. It's perhaps the best gish to use as an infiltrator, though I honestly think the bladesiger or even an outlier Pact of the Chain hexblade can fill that role better.
What is your opinion? What is the best gish? I would also like to know your opinion on the best builds for a gish. Is a hexblade with sword and broad better, or one with a two-handed weapon? A bladesinger with two weapons + tensor transformation (or haste, or shadowblade, etc...), or better with a single weapon? What is, in your opinion, the best way to play an Eldritch Knight? Defensive or offensive? And anything you want to comment on, of course!
What is a "gish"?
Originally, it was a term used to refer to multiclass fighter/magic-user (the old term for wizards) githyanki. I even remember that in the 2nd edition Planescape campaign setting the word Gish was given a meaning in the githyanki language (blessed I seem to remember).
Nowadays it is used for any warrior/arcane caster hybrid.
Not sure why you would restrict it to arcane casting. Why not include Paladin or Rangers, or even Sword/Valor Bards, War/Tempest Clerics or 4e/Shadow Monks? I don't think there is a "best" single class gish, rather, there are lots of chassis's on which you can build to attain your personal vision of a gish.
Hexblade is probably the best, glaive and polearm master, combined with darkness and devils sight is incredibly good. But. It’s been done to death. Every wannabe edgelord with delusions of being ‘da dps bozz’ has made them. They’ve been done to death and are quite boring. If that’s your thing sure, but expect he other players to get bored with you. And if you do it in a game I run then expect counterspell and dispel magic.
Personally I have played all 4, and had most fun with an arcane trickster. But don’t forget that a bard, cleric, ranger and druid could also make a gish build.
Well yes, I agree with you that hexblade has been and is played a lot. It is probably the build that I have found the most on the table, especially the hexadin. I actually played one. Also a bladesinger and an eldritch knight. I've always liked the Gish archetype, and I've played it in every edition.
What I don't agree with you is that you can make a Gish with druid, cleric, etc... I mean, really the concept is an "arcanist warrior". A cleric or paladin could be a "holy warrior", but not a Gish. And a druid... well, is a druid. With a bard, however, you could make a Gish. I don't like the flavor, the same thing I said about the artificer, but you can really do it.
I'd agree about the question about specifically 'Arcane' casters, because ultimately the titles of Arcane, Natural, and Divine magics are completely flavor in this edition of dnd. You could totally make an arcane druid, the same way you could do a holy wizard, or a nature paladin.
All of that said, I'm pretty sure that the 'most gish-like' of your choices would be the Bladesinger wizard because, to the best of my understanding, Gish are suppose to be able to hit and spell at the same time/on the same turn which is a class feature of the Bladesinger with a much more diverse option pool than the others. Also isn't it just like, busted with adding Int to everything or am i remembering the old version of the subclass?
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My biggest problem with Hexblade (aside from the fact that it's a bit overplayed) is the 6th level "Accursed Specter" ability... not that it's a terrible feature or anything, but it feels incredibly arbitrary as a primary class feature. I think that's partly why Hexblade is so often used as a single level dip just to get Hex Warrior... people want the class just because it lets you attack with Charisma, and don't want to deal with the hassle of either managing this specter in combat, or if they just can't justify, in-character, why their character is comfortable with ripping the spirit out of a dead body and forcing it into service.
Anyway, don't underestimate Arcane Trickster. I feel like it doesn't quite accomplish the feeling of a "Gish" like the other classes do, largely because Arcane Tricksters rarely need to use magic in combat... instead, it's most useful for them to use as utility for out of combat. Part of the reason is because, as a means of dealing damage, sneak attack will outclass most of the leveled attack spells they gain access to as a half-caster with a limited choice of magic schools, but at the very least they can comfortably snag one of the blade-cantrips, which stacks with sneak attack. Booming Blade pairs perfectly with a class that can deal sneak attack damage, and then disengage, forcing many enemies to eat the additional thunder damage if they want to retaliate.
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I agree. The most Gish thing on that list is the bladesinger. Also the eldritch knight, since that is the design intent.
Regarding which one is mechanically better, which I think is what the OP intends to ask, I don't think that the hexblade is necessarily better than the bladesinger. It's much easier to play and can do a lot of damage without having to think too much. However, the bladesinger is infinitely more versatile. You are a wizard, and your magic will allow you to fulfill almost any role in the party. The damage is more flashy, of course, and that's why it's rare to find a wizard who doesn't have a fireball always ready. But the wizard list allows you to eliminate enemies without having to hit them. In addition to the incredible options you have for any other situation, be it social, exploration, or whatever.
In short, you can't objectively say that hexblade is better than bladesinger. You'll probably do more damage per turn (although a well-played bladesinger can do that too), but the bladesinger gives you a lot more options, and is capable of having solutions for almost any situation. Like any wizard.
I'll flip it a bit and list what I see as each builds "weakness," or rather what makes them not quite feel like a gish.
Hexblade - As Transmorpher said, the specter thing at 6 is weird and doesn't fit. And I had to look up the later features because I have literally never seen a hexblade that stays a hexblade. It is very front-loaded and mechanically robust, but its also very thematically weak and kind of all over the place. What even is a hexblade's patron? Every other warlock sub, that's immediately apparent just by the name. Mechanically, the issues with being a gish is that your spells are extremely limited so you tend to end up focusing on one gimmick, and Eldritch Blast is so good that you're often better off building around that.
Bladesinger - The biggest "weakness" here is that a bladesinger is a full wizard. This means that just standing back and casting spells is often going to be much more effective than swinging your sword. This build is fun, but at later levels you are actively nerfing yourself by being in melee. As such, it's just too far on the caster side to be a satisfying gish.
Eldritch Knight - The reverse of the bladesinger. EK is best played as a straight-up fighter that uses their slots for things like Shield that don't care about your INT score. It's rarely going to be any good at casting spells that actually target enemies. It ends up feeling like a fighter with fighter-type features that happen to be spells.
Arcane Trickster - Also covered by Transmorpher, rogues are built to maneuver and Sneak Attack in combat and there's not much room to fit other stuff in. Their spells are a phenomenal enhancement to their skillset, but trying to use them in a battle is almost never optimal. Which doesn't make them feel much like a gish.
You didn't include bards, but many people also consider Valor/Blades/Whispers bards to be gishes. I'll just say that they all have the bladesinger problem but worse. They just aren't ever going to be competitive in melee, and the class in general is not meant to be dealing damage. You just have to fight against so many better options to do it, and the result is mediocre at best.
And whether you like them or not, I do feel that artificers are probably the best chassis for a good gish, as they have the appropriate balance between melee prowess and spellcasting. But the flavor is so strong that it can be hard to override all that. And it still doesn't do quite what I'd want.
So all of them have issues in my mind. The nice thing is that they cover a lot of different bases, so that you can pick the one that best fits what you want to do.
What comes clear when looking over what I wrote here is that every single one of these weaknesses is linked to the main class. Bladesinger is just too much of a wizard. Eldritch Knight is too much of a fighter. Pure hexblade benefits the most by investing in more traditional warlock methods. Until there is an actual class devoted to being a gish, all of our options are going to be fighting against (or giving in to) their main class design to some extent. I think hexblade is often seen as the ideal because warlock is the most modular class, and thus the least well-defined in terms of what it means to be a warlock.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Honestly for me the best Gish is a ranger. Specifically a Hunter or Monster Slayer (though Horizon Walker is my favorite). If we talking hypothetical though I think a Melee focused Artificer could be an amazing Gish. I know we have Battle master and the armorer but both of those support ranged and defensive tactics. I don't think it would be out of place at all to have an artificer subclass that would be able to use spells to empower their attacks or make attacks that empower their ability to cast spells.
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You forgot artificer. It has proficiency in con saves for concentration in melee, has weapon/armor proficiencies, and can use its infused weapon/shield as a focus. The battle smith even has a single ability dependant feature so only INT needs maxed (not to mention the pet that acts as a meat shield, gives a bonus action attack, and can give enemies disadvantage).
I say bladesinger though. The +int AC and an extra attack that lets you cast cantrips is very gish. All while being the most versatile full caster class.
scatterbraind post is really interesting, and I agree that the main problem with those subclasses is that you're almost always going to be better off acting as your base class. The warlock's Eldritch Blast, with his eldritch invocations, and his control spells, is too good to ignore as a warlock. A mid-high level Wizard has spells that can define a fight much more than just swinging a sword. Etc... However, the fun of the Gish is to play those classes differently (although with the warlock it is the other way around due to the immense amount of hexblades that are seen on the table, but that is part of the metagame). In any case I understand what you mean, and you are right.
Regarding the artificer, I already mentioned it in the initial post. Mechanically it sounds like a great Gish to me, but to me the class doesn't have that flavor. Obviously you can take the class as a mechanical corset, and reskin it. You can also do it with the ranger to, for example, make yourself a Geralt of Rivia (mechanically the best class to emulate that character). I personally don't like to do that kind of thing at all, as I think RPGs (and classes in this particular case) are designed to give you a specific flavor. I understand that there are people who like to do those things, but I prefer to invest my creativity in making an interesting character with what the game gives me narratively. The other thing really takes me out of the immersion. It's something personal, and other people can see it differently, of course. It also happens that, after many decades playing RPGs, I have found too many times that those reskins end up emptying the game thematically, until turning it into a gray mush. There are people who know how to do it well, of course, but most people continue to play ranger, or whatever, as if they played any other ranger. And the only thing that is gish is the miniature or the token.
the arcane trickster occupies this weird space where it's features and spells are used to augment the rogue chassis rather than expanding on it. Mage hand? Used to pick locks or disarm traps better from afar. Find familiar? Used to scout better. Disguise self/invisibility/nystul's magic aura? Used to infiltrate better.
Now, the same might be said about the EK, but the EK has more options. It's first and foremost a top-tier martial. If and when spellcasting is no longer a viable option, you have your reliable attacks. War Magic makes it that so long as you meet the requirements to proc your secondary SCAGtrip damage, you'll be fine. But when you don't, you can just use extra attack. The AT rogue has no such option. If it's familiar dies in combat, it's ability to independently generate advantage and sneak attack goes out the window. If the AT wants to use booming blade, their bonus action will almost always be used on disengage, but they may not have enough movement to go both in and out-- could be fixed by the mobile feat, but that's already making things too reliant on external factors.
Now, mechanically speaking, the bladesinger is perhaps the strongest single class gish without a doubt. It has the best spells and an excellent melee option with it's special version of extra attack. While the bladesinger IS mad, it isn't requiring any real investment. If you start with a 16 in DEX (and you'll want to for various reasons) and leave it there your whole career, you'll be more or less fine! Heck, you'll probably cap it to 20 anyways if you're in for the long haul. However, just because it's the strongest doesn't mean it's the best gish, and this is 100% due to the problem that as you get to higher levels, the damage you'll do with attacking melee+cantrips just doesn't seem reasonable when you can easily chuck a fireball without thinking too hard about it. You'll have the resources to stay back at a distance while outperforming the melee aspects of your gish capabilities. That's why it's not the best gish.
Hexblade is a better gish than bladesinger but it still has its own problems. For one, I think a gish is awesome when they use their melee abilities to good use, but if we're talking honestly, the hexblade will need to use gwm to optimize their melee, and that means relying entirely on your medium armor's AC to protect you... which I don't think is much. The most realistic way we'll fix that is by relying on spells like darkness or shadow of moil to grant us both advantage and impose disadvantage on enemies, but even that has its own issues such as obstructing team mates especially other martials with darkness or even taking up an entire action to set up. Second, building a gish hexblade means you'll almost certainly take pact of the blade, and while there's nothing wrong with that, it doesn't feel as magical as other pact boons. Warlocks are awesome because you can get all sorts of goodies with your invocations. I can build one warlock to be an infiltrator with pact of the chain and invocations like mask of many faces, and that's incredibly badass. But, the hexblade will almost certainly be taking their invocations to improve their melee abilities. Agonizing blast is a must, and if you want to optimize your melee, you'll want improved pact weapon at lvl 3. Then at 5 you'll have to take thirsting blade. Then at 7, maaaybe eldritch smite. But by then you've not left yourself much room for neat utility invocations like misty visions or repelling blast or eldritch mind or beast speech, or mask of many faces or even devils sight. It's all been used up just so we can tick off the melee's essentials checkboxes.
So, for the least amount of headaches and best fulfillment of the gish fantasy, I think EK's the best. You start off with heavy armor, and you can use a fighting style to increase your AC. So, you're sufficiently tanky no matter especially if you take the shield spell. As mentioned before, your melee capabilities are top of the line. Though, that said, I feel that fey touched is an absolute must on EK's. Your limited spell selection and progression hurts really bad, but fey touched alleviates both those things. Plus, you can augment your abilities with something like hex as your fey touched spell to be even more magical and more damaging, and it could potentially help out your casting stat. That's awesome! I could build an EK to have fey touched, 18 str, and GWM by lvl 8. Sure, you don't achieve a 20 in your main stat, but 18's very livable and fey touched's hex makes up for the STR.
First, the reason why Gish is Arcane, is that Arcane is more general - about all magic, while Divine is almost always focused on something - either support or nature,.
Secondly, the main class is more important often than the subclass when it comes to Gish. There is a huge difference between a caster that fights and a fighter that casts.
If you want a caster that fights, you have to be a Wizards or Sorcerer. Especially if you like the Tenser's Transformation spell. Hard to get a 6th level spell if you are not a Wizard/Sorcerer.
If you think of yourself as exactly in the middle, then Wizard/Sorcerer is the way to go because the ability to cast magic is more limited than the ability to fight
If you want to be a fighter that casts, then the other classes are better.
Mog_Dracov, Do you think a gish can be made with a single class sorcerer? If so, how would you do it?
A Gish Sorcerer would be hard to pull off without multiclassing or relying heavily on feats. So here's my best take...
First of all, you need to play as a race that gains proficiency with a martial weapon, since Sorcerer doesn't give you proficiency in any decent weapons... something like Dwarf or, probably better for this build, Elf.
Next, you want to take the Draconic Bloodline... there's a couple reasons for this, but mostly you want it for Draconic Resilience. Sorcerers don't get ANY armor proficiencies, but Draconic Resilience gives you AC of 13+DEX... that's why we want Elf over Dwarf. All Elves don't get Elf Weapon Training, but they all at least get a +2 to DEX. So Going Elf means you get proficiency in Short Swords... a Finesse Weapon that allows you to attack with DEX, which you're going to want extra high anyway.
From there, you need to pick a Dracon Ancestor... pick Brass, Gold, or Red, because it grants you bonuses to Fire-based spells eventually. Then take Green Flame Blade as a Cantrip. You'll never get Extra Attack, so instead you'll just be trying to deal as much damage as possible with this Cantrip.
As for Metamagic, here are the two that will do the most to help with this build... Quickened Spell allows you to cast spells as a bonus action, but even with bonus actions you can't cast more than one leveled spell per turn. So with Quickened Spell you can still drop some control or AOE spells, then get in a quickened Green Flame Blade, or even just make two Green Flame Blade spells in one round. You might also want Seeking Spell... since you only get one swing of your sword per round, in case you miss this gives you the opportunity to re-roll so your turn isn't wasted. Empowered Spell is also handy to hold onto just in case you roll terribly on damage, but it's probably better saved for your bigger spells than just using it to bump up GFB.
After that you're going to want to focus on spells that boost your survivability or damage. Absorb Elements is a good one... unless I'm misreading it, you can still combine it with Green Flame Blade, since GFB specifically lets you make a melee attack that functions as a regular melee attack with no restriction that other modifiers can't apply to it, so it still gets the damage boost combined with the extra damage from GFB. False Life might save your sweet patoot, since you've only got a d6 for a Hit Die, so anything that grants Temp HP is a huge boon. Another important spell is Shield, because you really, really don't want to take any hits, if you can help it. You might be better at Melee combat than the average sorcerer, but you're still not built for taking a lot of hits. Silvery Barbs might be superior to Shield... you'd probably be best off taking both and just choosing which one to use depending on circumstances.
The thing I'm not totally sure about is whether or not Flame Blade or Shadow Blade can be combined with GFB... ideally, either of those spells will be your go-to and probably replace your regular weapon as often as possible, but I know GFB has some rule about needing the weapon used in the casting of the spell to have an SP value... I've heard that was just to make it specifically so it couldn't be combined with spells like these, but if not, that's a solid combo. If that's not allowed, then Magic Weapon is the next best option... Magic Weapon might be a little more useful, if only because it's duration is an hour, which makes it easier to get more out of it.
In general, just all those spells that let you attempt to keep up with the dedicated martial classes. The hard part is managing concentration... Stoneskin is a smart spell to cast for yourself, but it's concentration, so you can't combine it with the weapon-spells I mentioned earlier.
Anyway, this isn't a great build. You won't be a reliable melee damage dealer in your group, but if you get in the Shadow Blade and Green Flame Blade Combo, by 11th level you can upcast Shadow Blade to deal 4d8+DEX Modifier damage with every attack, then use it to cast GFB, which adds an additional 2d8+CHA Modifer to that (and 2d8+2xCHA Modifier to some rando standing next to whoever you're actually attacking). Let's assume a CHA and DEX score of at least 18...4d8+4Psychic+2d8+4Fire, and you can use 2 Sorcery Points to make that same attack twice in a round. So that averages out to 76 damage, which is a solid damage output, although it requires a round of setup, and you need to maintain concentration on your Shadow Blade.
For feats I would recommend Warcaster... keep up concentration more easily, makes it easier to cast magic while holding a weapon (not that you'll ever have both hands occupied in the first place), and being able to cast spells as an opportunity attack gives you more chances to land blade-cantrips on enemies... you can't combine it with GFB, though, because GFB can target multiple creatures. However, Booming Blade is much meaner combined with this feat, since the enemies movement will trigger the additional damage. You still won't be good as a traditional fighter and it's only the blade cantrips that makes this a Gish instead of just a regular sorcerer, but it's something.
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TransmorpherDDS, yes, I tried to make a build very similar to that a long time ago and it didn't work very well (I was DMing that game, but a player asked me to make a Sorcerer Gish for him and that's all I could think of). That's why I was asking, in case there was a sorcerer subclass that could work like Gish. Perhaps I had overlooked it.
Maybe at some point they'll release a "Gish" subclass for the sorcerer. But until then, the only good option I've seen is multiclassing with a paladin.
It should be noted that Draconic Bloodline also gives an extra HP per sorcerer level, effectively putting this subclass 1 HP behind a d8 hit die (from first level) when using fixed.
Getting Hill Dwarf for the HP gain would put you 2 HP behind a D10. You wouldn't have a finesse weapon better than a dagger, but you'd only be 1 average damage off of a shortsword. The con bonus would be nice for your HP, but you'd need Tasha's to get your wisdom changed to either strength, dexterity, or charisma. If you went with a strength build, you'd be pretty mad, but could use a Warhammer or battleaxe instead. A strength build would be better served with a mountain dwarf, considering that they get the same weapon proficiency, medium armor proficiency, and a +2 to strength and constitution. You could start with a 16 strength and a 15 charisma and constitution with standard array, or you could choose to have a 17, 16 and 13 across the three. Going with medium armor does render the ac calculation from draconic resilience moot, though the HP bonus would still be helpful. If you chose to go with a different subclass, you'd be stuck as a d6 without feats. Sadly, the ability to wear heavy armor without the strength required doesn't help here since you won't have proficiency without a multiclass or feat. Without proficiency, you can't cast while wearing it.
The options pointed out by Transmorpher are likely better outside of choosing Hill Dwarf for even more HP at the cost of 1 avg damage per weapon attack and that's likely only better for an all sorcerer party that needs a quasi tank...
As for other subclasses, a brief check over 1st and 6th level features and spell lists left me not feeling very inspired. Clockwork Soul could give some help at 6th level with Bastian of Law and Restore Balance could help prevent a few attacks against you with advantage, but the subclass doesn't help much otherwise. Divine Soul could make you a little more sturdy with empowered healing and more likely to hit with Favored by the Gods, but isn't much better than clockwork Soul. Shadow magic could be interesting, but most people I've talked to say that Eyes of the Dark's seeing through Darkness that you cast with a spell point requires not being in the darkness, preventing the Devil's Sight usage Warlocks have. Storm Sorcery is geared more to melee range, but it requires at least a 1st level spell to activate tempestuous magic and heart of the storm, the former requiring the usage of your bonus action to activate.
Wild Magic actually has some potential with Tides of Chaos providing advantage for you (need your DM to buy in and let you roll on your Wild Magic Surge table all the time for the refresh though). Bend Luck could be used defensively and Wild Magic Surge would add to the feel of a gish once you've hit third level and can cast a spell and a cantrip during the same turn with metamagic. Still, it's heavily reliant on the DM's cooperation and some of the potential fall out from Surge could be counterproductive.
I prefer Arcane trickster