The only rule that I find weird in 5e is the Jump.
As a Fantasy game its normal to a rule to not be 100% reallistic. But it should have sense at least, when trying to immitate reality.
When a person/being jumps in reality its their strenght vs their weight.
When I was young I was a good jumper. Had good strength. 1.72m height. I was slender. But my best friend was crazy strong. We called him "ogre". Very unusual strength genes. He could crush me in arm wrestling. But I still has much faster on running and much better on jumping. He was fat somehow (even with good health). And he was bigger too, on height and muscular mass. But not very athletic.
Strenght vs weight.
But in DnD 5e, to calculate your minimum jump distance its done only with Str vallues.
I still think a rule must be simple. But that seems a little "not very well thought".
I would suggest other simple thing: Base minimum distance for long jump (after 10 feet of movement) could be: 10 feet + Strength(Athetics) score. Like passive perception.
Lets say I was a lvl 1 Rogue with 12 Str with Expertise on Strength(Athletics).
My Friend was lvl 1 Barbarian with 16 Str with Proficiency in Strength(Athletics).
Both our minimum running long jump distance would be 15 feet.
Lets say we were lvl 20 both with Strength(Athletics). He (Barbarian) would have 24 Str with Proficiency and I (Rogue) still 12 Str with Expertise.
Both our minimum distances for running long jump would be 23 feet. (using dash)
In both cases Barbarians would have 1 feet less but I think it makes more sense.
But lets say my friend Barbarian had Expertise in Strength(Athletics). He would cover 29 feet minimum on running long jump (with dash), wich would be our actual world record, by the way. But we are on a Fantasy world. Maybe he could push a little further with a check, right? 24 Str Skilled Expert lvl 20 Barbarian.
Lets say my Rogue had "Second-Story Work" for a +5. It would be 28 feet for him then(with dash), when running long jumpping. Close enough.
I say all that because Strength alone for calculating minimum distances makes for poor rule. It needs to be simple, but well thought also.
10 + Strength(Athletics) score. Its like passive perception.
Maybe could exist variants for small size chars. Or not.
And I still didn't think about the high jump. But I think it should involve Strength(Athletics) when calculating the minimum as well. Not only Str alone.
My advice is don’t worry about reality. It’s a game where you’re playing a character who has access to magic and you’re fighting monsters that will never exist in the real world.
Ignore real world physics and enjoy the game as it is.
In a game with monsters that are essentially insane, giant, flying meatballs with myriad eyestalks that shoot lasers… it’s the jump mechanics that you find weird?!? I get what you’re saying about the physics, but D&D is an abstraction, not a simulation. There are barbarians with more HP than a sperm whale… there’s just some stuff in this game one has to close one eye and pretend not to see.
One thing I will point out with your Barb vs Rogue example is that over those 20 levels the barb has invested significant resources into pumping up that STR score, while the rogue just took expertise at level 1 and called it good. Real world logic aside, it doesn't seem right to me that your rogue gets to keep getting better and better at jumping while also being able to pump their DEX or get feats with the ASIs and class features that the Barb is using for STR.
Another thing to consider is that STR is a pretty weak stat in 5e. Jumping is one of the few things that keeps it relevant for any character.
But the best thing about the jump rules in 5e is their simplicity. No adding, no figuring out fiddly bonuses, just a very straightforward number of feet you can jump written right there on your sheet.
Barbs need to pump STR one way or the other. Its a must for Barbs.
Expertise of Rogues is a choice of where to put the Expertise.
Even so, IF a Barb decides to get Expertise he/she would do far better on the Strenght(Athletics) checks. IF. Usually its not the choice. But the Expertise Feat comes also with +1 in some stat. So who knows? +19 on Srenght(Athletics) check? Seems fun.
And I am not talking only about Rogues. Any non-STR-based class. Could even be Dex Fighters or Rangers or Monks. Rangers do need to win against nature obstacles, right? Rogues to jump on ceilings to navigate on top of city. Just the normal proficiency would help.
And the rule would still be very simple. 10 + Strenght(Athletics). Like passive perception. [edit] And, by coincidence, aproach reality more.
For STR Fighters with Expertise(from Talent) would be jumping even further. 27 feet base.
And Barbs get +4 STR just by reaching level 20. Its not even "significant resource". Usually +2 (x2) then reach level 20 for free +4.
STR is also for weight(carry lift push drag) and STR saves and grabs and shove, climb, swim, not being disarmed(optional rule from DMG), force your way through enemy lines(optional rule from DMG), etc. STR would still be STR and important.
Only Jump would be more available for other non-STR-based classes that so chose to pick Athletics skill.
The only rule that I find weird in 5e is the Jump.
As a Fantasy game its normal to a rule to not be 100% reallistic. But it should have sense at least, when trying to immitate reality.
When a person/being jumps in reality its their strenght vs their weight.
When I was young I was a good jumper. Had good strength. 1.72m height. I was slender. But my best friend was crazy strong. We called him "ogre". Very unusual strength genes. He could crush me in arm wrestling. But I still has much faster on running and much better on jumping. He was fat somehow (even with good health). And he was bigger too, on height and muscular mass. But not very athletic.
Strenght vs weight.
But in DnD 5e, to calculate your minimum jump distance its done only with Str vallues.
I still think a rule must be simple. But that seems a little "not very well thought".
I would suggest other simple thing: Base minimum distance for long jump (after 10 feet of movement) could be: 10 feet + Strength(Athetics) score. Like passive perception.
Lets say I was a lvl 1 Rogue with 12 Str with Expertise on Strength(Athletics).
My Friend was lvl 1 Barbarian with 16 Str with Proficiency in Strength(Athletics).
Both our minimum running long jump distance would be 15 feet.
Lets say we were lvl 20 both with Strength(Athletics). He (Barbarian) would have 24 Str with Proficiency and I (Rogue) still 12 Str with Expertise.
Both our minimum distances for running long jump would be 23 feet. (using dash)
In both cases Barbarians would have 1 feet less but I think it makes more sense.
But lets say my friend Barbarian had Expertise in Strength(Athletics). He would cover 29 feet minimum on running long jump (with dash), wich would be our actual world record, by the way. But we are on a Fantasy world. Maybe he could push a little further with a check, right? 24 Str Skilled Expert lvl 20 Barbarian.
Lets say my Rogue had "Second-Story Work" for a +5. It would be 28 feet for him then(with dash), when running long jumpping. Close enough.
I say all that because Strength alone for calculating minimum distances makes for poor rule. It needs to be simple, but well thought also.
10 + Strength(Athletics) score. Its like passive perception.
Maybe could exist variants for small size chars. Or not.
And I still didn't think about the high jump. But I think it should involve Strength(Athletics) when calculating the minimum as well. Not only Str alone.
Thank you all for the attention.
All Hail The Gods of D&D.
My advice is don’t worry about reality. It’s a game where you’re playing a character who has access to magic and you’re fighting monsters that will never exist in the real world.
Ignore real world physics and enjoy the game as it is.
Professional computer geek
Hey. I realized that here is not the best spot for suggestions.
But I will still leave here the post. Resuming:
10 + Strenght(Athletics ) score = Base distance in feets for running long jumps. NOT only raw STR score.
High Jump should have similat logic, somehow applying Strenght(Athletics).
Would not mess with STR based chars and would give more fun/chance to non-STR-based chars with Athletics.
In a game with monsters that are essentially insane, giant, flying meatballs with myriad eyestalks that shoot lasers… it’s the jump mechanics that you find weird?!? I get what you’re saying about the physics, but D&D is an abstraction, not a simulation. There are barbarians with more HP than a sperm whale… there’s just some stuff in this game one has to close one eye and pretend not to see.
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One thing I will point out with your Barb vs Rogue example is that over those 20 levels the barb has invested significant resources into pumping up that STR score, while the rogue just took expertise at level 1 and called it good. Real world logic aside, it doesn't seem right to me that your rogue gets to keep getting better and better at jumping while also being able to pump their DEX or get feats with the ASIs and class features that the Barb is using for STR.
Another thing to consider is that STR is a pretty weak stat in 5e. Jumping is one of the few things that keeps it relevant for any character.
But the best thing about the jump rules in 5e is their simplicity. No adding, no figuring out fiddly bonuses, just a very straightforward number of feet you can jump written right there on your sheet.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Barbs need to pump STR one way or the other. Its a must for Barbs.
Expertise of Rogues is a choice of where to put the Expertise.
Even so, IF a Barb decides to get Expertise he/she would do far better on the Strenght(Athletics) checks. IF. Usually its not the choice. But the Expertise Feat comes also with +1 in some stat. So who knows? +19 on Srenght(Athletics) check? Seems fun.
And I am not talking only about Rogues. Any non-STR-based class. Could even be Dex Fighters or Rangers or Monks. Rangers do need to win against nature obstacles, right? Rogues to jump on ceilings to navigate on top of city. Just the normal proficiency would help.
And the rule would still be very simple. 10 + Strenght(Athletics). Like passive perception. [edit] And, by coincidence, aproach reality more.
For STR Fighters with Expertise(from Talent) would be jumping even further. 27 feet base.
And Barbs get +4 STR just by reaching level 20. Its not even "significant resource". Usually +2 (x2) then reach level 20 for free +4.
STR is also for weight(carry lift push drag) and STR saves and grabs and shove, climb, swim, not being disarmed(optional rule from DMG), force your way through enemy lines(optional rule from DMG), etc. STR would still be STR and important.
Only Jump would be more available for other non-STR-based classes that so chose to pick Athletics skill.