On the surface they seem amazing (specs below). Treantmonk on YouTube is someone who's perspectives I highly respect, and I usually (though not always) agree with him. He raved about Psychic Blades. From my perspective, it's a good ability but there are caveats.
1d6 is decent, better than a dagger but not as much as a rapier. Having a bonus action attack guaranteed that (correct me if I'm wrong) also adds your Dex mod, is really nice. Being able to use it in melee or ranged, also really nice. Now for the but..
BUT:
As a rogue your bonus action is often spoken for. You can Hide (or with Tasha's) use Steady Aim and attack with advantage. You may want to disengage or dash, for any given reason. Two normal attacks are better than one attack with advantage; however, having advantage guarantees Sneak Attack applies. It's a really nice feature that is not without cost.
Now let's assume you have a DM who isn't a big poopoo head who refuses to ever give you a magic weapon. Just a +1 dagger does the same damage but also gives you a +1 to hit. Granted, Psychic damage is the best "type" - but does that solve anything when you have a magic weapon? Now factor in +1 short sword or rapier, and it's doing more damage and giving you a to hit bonus. Now factor in perhaps even better magic weapons.
Being fair, if the DM only gives you one magic weapon (ranged or melee), Psychic Blades gives you a solid option for switching from one to the other. IF the DM is just not giving you a magic weapon, later in the game I would call Psychic Blades a must have. It's also incredibly useful for the "You got arrested and they took all your stuff" scenarios, though that's obviously situational.
My thesis is not that Psychic Blades are bad or useless. Just that it is far less great than you might think when you initially read it. But this is all based on theory, as I have not yet played one. So am I missing something here, or did I asses the ability correctly?
Psychic Blades
3rd-level Soulknife feature
You can manifest your psionic power as shimmering blades of psychic energy. Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage.
After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second psychic blade as a bonus action on the same turn, provided your other hand is free to create it. The damage die of this bonus attack is 1d4, instead of 1d6.
Psychic Blades really shine as a thrown weapon. You can only throw a +1 dagger once before having to go and pick it up. Even if you have lots of daggers on you their normal range is only 20 and without feats or multiclassing you can only draw one per turn for free. Whether you're using your bonus action for another attack or Steady Aim, you can keep throwing Psychic Blades from 60 feet away turn after turn without losing your magic weapon and with full damage on the bonus attack if you choose to use it.
They're actually a bit underwhelming for melee since they can't be used for opportunity attacks, so you have to choose between two Psychic Blade attacks and no op attacks since you don't have any weapons on you, or keeping another melee weapon handy for op attacks but being forced into using Steady Aim.
Many rogues use daggers, 1d4, because ultimately a rogue's damage output isn't based on their blade of choice. It's from their Sneak Attack. The point of a rogue is to find ways to utilise sneak attack, without staying up close and in the danger. The psychic blades make it easier to do that with their 60 ft range.
You're also missing that it leaves no mark on the target and the blade immediately vanishes on hit or miss. You could commit a murder and unless they see you do it nobody will know it was one - the target just 'dropped dead' for no apparent reason. The RP you can have with that!
It also means you can freely wander into areas that have a strict no-weapons policy. You could be entirely buck naked - utterly weaponless, because you can literally summon psychic blades out of thin air. You can never be disarmed unless they actually remove your hands/arms.
It's one of the most interesting features any rogue subclass has, in my opinion, not just for the mechanics but also for the RP. I do admit I'm a tad bit biased because I'm an X-Men fan and this subclass was almost entirely based on Psylocke. But, still, one of the most interesting subclasses I've seen for a rogue.
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I've been playing a Soul Knife since December, and the Psychic Blades are fun and useful. I do find I use them at range, whether using steady aim, or hiding to gain advantage, but with a barbarian and paladin in the group, there is almost always an enemy of my target within five feet. If push comes to shove, and I'm in melee range, I'd still use the Psychic Blade and then cunning action to disengage. Being a rogue, my AC is decent, but my HP is not on par with our tanks.
That said, these are amazing tools. They're great for applying sneak attack damage. I've yet to use a bonus action blade, but I'm usually using my bonus action in some other way. Because of the ranged actions, I've tended towards firing either from a hiding location (and then attempting to hide again) or using steady aim. I am not sure if it's a compliment to the class, but my DM actually added some creatures that are immune to psychic damage. We figured out they only attacked if provoked with weapons unsheathed, so it was a cool way of working through some problems.
As for inspiration, Psylocke is a great inspiration. I initially used a bit of Gambit (rogue) and then Todd Kendrick brought up the movie Final Fantasy Kingsglaive. The Kingsglaive have some commonalities with the Soul Knife, including the teleportation with blades, special invisibility... kind of a cool way to see it (YouTube has clips). Their blades are traditional blades they sling around, but it gets the point across.
If these weapons had the range property I’d us this class constantly haha. Sharpshooter with soul knife sounds awesome!
The -5 +10 feature is less valuable with sneak attack.
Yeah. With only 1 attack (not counting bonus action that you would use for advantage - hide from a turn prior or steady aim), you kinda need to hit for the sneak attack. Still useful to avoid half and three-quarter Cover and being able to sneak attack with a short bow at 320 ft.
It was mentioned in Cyb3rM1nd's answer (which is rather complete) but to reiterate, at range, those blades are dangerous. 60ft (max dagger range) without disadvantage on your roll is good for 1d6 thrown with potential sneak attack. I think people might still notice the flash of psy-blade flying to the target but since it leaves no marks and disappear on hit/miss, the RP potential is very present.
Just want to chime in that the various Belts of Giant Strength can grant an equivalent to a magic weapon bonus for psychic blades or other builds that use natural/unarmed attacks. And as a bonus you get great Athletics/jumps.
Since the blades have the thrown property, they could be used with the strength attribute if advantageous. Since so many of the soul knifes features are based on using the blades, I think belts of giant strength could be an interesting reward for a soul knife.
the strength boosts wouldn’t be super ridiculous on a rogue, but would effectively increase jumping and climbing for the rogue. Along with associated save boosts. The damage and accuracy of the blades would go up to if the choice was made to throw with strength.
im sure there are tons of homebrew to boost the blades too.
I've paired the Soul Blade(9) with a Swarmkeeper (11) ranger. The Gathering Swarm ability does work with the blades and offers some nice boost with +damage, push-pull. or free disengage. The further you go up in each level the more they synergize together (hover+ teleporting? yes please), ). One could even theme the swarm as psi effects (mage hand) or psi effects as the swarm. Extra attack, Perma invisibility (Nature’s Veil) and damage boosting/thematic spells are just gravy.
If you think about it, The bonus action attack is the same as the crossbow expert feat; the damage is on par with the hand crossbow, the attack within 5ft is nulled because... well stabby stabby, and you reload with a thought. With this in mind, it is a subclass with a built-in feat.
It's also the utility of the blades at higher levels (ie.9th) that really makes them shine even if you don't use them as a weapon. Teleporting up to 80ft or adding a 1d8 to an attack roll. Someone mentioned Sharpshooter and the homing blades have a good chance to cancel the -5.
Sadly they dont count as ranged weapons to apply the Sharpshooter feat.
Sharpshooter only partially requires a ranged weapon. You can apply 2/3 of the feat to ranged attacks with melee weapons:
Ignoring disadvantage at long range, which does nothing for psychic blades (as they have no long range) but does do something if you're pairing with Swarmkeeper 11, as Psychic Blades don't work with Extra Attack, so there's a third attack in there that might well be a thrown dagger.
Ignoring cover, which works fine.
The only part that requires a ranged weapon is the -5 to hit/+10 damage (which, admittedly, is the part Utsu_Yami erroneously claimed could apply).
I've paired the Soul Blade(9) with a Swarmkeeper (11) ranger. The Gathering Swarm ability does work with the blades and offers some nice boost with +damage, push-pull. or free disengage. The further you go up in each level the more they synergize together (hover+ teleporting? yes please), ). One could even theme the swarm as psi effects (mage hand) or psi effects as the swarm. Extra attack, Perma invisibility (Nature’s Veil) and damage boosting/thematic spells are just gravy.
As I mentioned above, Extra Attack won't work with Psychic Blades, and turning on Invisibility for a round has maximum synergy with a rogue but minimum synergy with Psychic Blades: spending the bonus action removes the second Psychic Blades attack and of course you can't use the Psychic Blades with an Opportunity Attack, so all you're getting offensively is Advantage on one single attack. You'd be better off as a different Rogue subclass.
If you think about it, The bonus action attack is the same as the crossbow expert feat; the damage is on par with the hand crossbow, the attack within 5ft is nulled because... well stabby stabby, and you reload with a thought. With this in mind, it is a subclass with a built-in feat.
Only worse, yes. The range can be viewed as a wash without Sharpshooter (30/120 -> 60/60), but the crippling part of Psychic Blades is that they only exist during their attack, so they won't interact with the rest of the game - you can't make OAs with them, and buffing spells like Elemental Weapon don't work on them, and it's impossible to find a magic weapon that will synergize properly (e.g. you will never get a +1 to +3 bonus with them).
It's also the utility of the blades at higher levels (ie.9th) that really makes them shine even if you don't use them as a weapon. Teleporting up to 80ft
10 to 80/100/120 is average 45/55/65, but in practice this is useless: if you make a plan that requires you to roll 8 on 1d8, your plan is probably going to fail, and if you make a plan requiring a 10 foot teleport, usually additional range won't help. You can think of the teleport as having a 10-foot range in almost all circumstances - the only exception is when you have plenty of time and badly need to teleport, so you can afford to throw away multiple dice (at a rate of 1/round) on trying to get where you need to go.
or adding a 1d8 to an attack roll.
Significantly better than +1d8 to an attack roll. First of all, you know when an attack misses, which has synergy with other abilities (e.g. if you multiclass into Battle Master Fighter and get Precision Attack, you get to know if your roll missed or not when choosing to use Precision Attack), and second of all, if you still miss after using it, you keep the die, and third of all, it's +1d8, then +1d10, then +1d12. The combination lets you nail down a target's AC with extreme speed: you can roll to hit, find out if you miss, then add your 1d8-1d12 die, and then either you hit or miss (which gives you another datum for determing your target's AC), and on a miss you keep your die. Homing Strikes is well-designed, unlike Psychic Teleportation (which should have been a flat distance, and on a roll of X+ you get to keep the die).
Someone mentioned Sharpshooter and the homing blades have a good chance to cancel the -5.
As covered above, illegal - you can't apply the -5 to psychic blades, so you can't cancel it.
Sadly they dont count as ranged weapons to apply the Sharpshooter feat.
Sharpshooter only partially requires a ranged weapon. You can apply 2/3 of the feat to ranged attacks with melee weapons:
Ignoring disadvantage at long range, which does nothing for psychic blades (as they have no long range) but does do something if you're pairing with Swarmkeeper 11, as Psychic Blades don't work with Extra Attack, so there's a third attack in there that might well be a thrown dagger.
Ignoring cover, which works fine.
The only part that requires a ranged weapon is the -5 to hit/+10 damage (which, admittedly, is the part Utsu_Yami erroneously claimed could apply).
I've paired the Soul Blade(9) with a Swarmkeeper (11) ranger. The Gathering Swarm ability does work with the blades and offers some nice boost with +damage, push-pull. or free disengage. The further you go up in each level the more they synergize together (hover+ teleporting? yes please), ). One could even theme the swarm as psi effects (mage hand) or psi effects as the swarm. Extra attack, Perma invisibility (Nature’s Veil) and damage boosting/thematic spells are just gravy.
As I mentioned above, Extra Attack won't work with Psychic Blades, and turning on Invisibility for a round has maximum synergy with a rogue but minimum synergy with Psychic Blades: spending the bonus action removes the second Psychic Blades attack and of course you can't use the Psychic Blades with an Opportunity Attack, so all you're getting offensively is Advantage on one single attack. You'd be better off as a different Rogue subclass.
If you think about it, The bonus action attack is the same as the crossbow expert feat; the damage is on par with the hand crossbow, the attack within 5ft is nulled because... well stabby stabby, and you reload with a thought. With this in mind, it is a subclass with a built-in feat.
Only worse, yes. The range can be viewed as a wash without Sharpshooter (30/120 -> 60/60), but the crippling part of Psychic Blades is that they only exist during their attack, so they won't interact with the rest of the game - you can't make OAs with them, and buffing spells like Elemental Weapon don't work on them, and it's impossible to find a magic weapon that will synergize properly (e.g. you will never get a +1 to +3 bonus with them).
It's also the utility of the blades at higher levels (ie.9th) that really makes them shine even if you don't use them as a weapon. Teleporting up to 80ft
10 to 80/100/120 is average 45/55/65, but in practice this is useless: if you make a plan that requires you to roll 8 on 1d8, your plan is probably going to fail, and if you make a plan requiring a 10 foot teleport, usually additional range won't help. You can think of the teleport as having a 10-foot range in almost all circumstances - the only exception is when you have plenty of time and badly need to teleport, so you can afford to throw away multiple dice (at a rate of 1/round) on trying to get where you need to go.
or adding a 1d8 to an attack roll.
Significantly better than +1d8 to an attack roll. First of all, you know when an attack misses, which has synergy with other abilities (e.g. if you multiclass into Battle Master Fighter and get Precision Attack, you get to know if your roll missed or not when choosing to use Precision Attack), and second of all, if you still miss after using it, you keep the die, and third of all, it's +1d8, then +1d10, then +1d12. The combination lets you nail down a target's AC with extreme speed: you can roll to hit, find out if you miss, then add your 1d8-1d12 die, and then either you hit or miss (which gives you another datum for determing your target's AC), and on a miss you keep your die. Homing Strikes is well-designed, unlike Psychic Teleportation (which should have been a flat distance, and on a roll of X+ you get to keep the die).
Someone mentioned Sharpshooter and the homing blades have a good chance to cancel the -5.
As covered above, illegal - you can't apply the -5 to psychic blades, so you can't cancel it.
Yeap I was wrong about the sharpshooter. oops, my bad.
Explain to me why PsiBlades do NOT work with extra attacks again? As I read it...
"Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." ..."The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target," ..."you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
SOoo you have an empty hand, you attack, make a blade, hit or miss it vanishes, you extra attack with a now-empty hand, make a blade, repeat if needed. I understand you only have 1 bonus action and you DON'T have to take that bonus action attack because you have better uses for a bonus action as a rogue. Like Disengage and Dash, which...
(edit. there is the argument of attack action and take an action to attack. I would also argue that it is natural attack that needs empty hands. like how claws work)
Psychic Teleportation can do both in a single bonus action (and a Psi Die). With an average of 4.5 on a die 8 (my example as a level 9 rogue), that is more distance than you cover with your base movement speed (assuming 30ft/turn) and teleport does not proc OA Even a roll of 1 is still 10ft movement while disengaging. So run in 20ft, Attack Action, Extra attack, bonus action to teleport away 10ft (roll a 1) and move 10ft more and you are back to where you started. Kinda like the mobile feat.
And yes you use your bonus action to become invisibility (with the Rangers Nature’s Veil in my example) and thus can not take additional bonus action or the bonus psi attack. However, Natural Veil also does not break on attack or action. Thus you get to roll for advantage on your attack action, with sneak attacks and attacks against have to roll with disadvantage until the start of your next turn. You can also disengage as OAs are only good against targets that can be seen. Would it be better on other Rogue types? sure... but then again NV would be good on most other classes too.
I compared it to Crossbow expert (SA) just with the mechanics in mind which you agreed to, and I agree with you that there are faults in that thinking as well, but there are similarities nevertheless. Then again, unless you have Extra attacks as a rogue, you lose the ability to multi-attack or do not have a free hand to reload (as per the ammunition property not the reload property) with a hand crossbow away ways.( as per my example)
I get what you mean that the damage is sub-par in most cases; it should be like the fighter's version and scale with Psi-Die, but if you look at it in a vacuum as just a damage ability, which it does compete with entry subclass level damage abilities, then you are missing on a lot of utility it can afford.
Explain to me why PsiBlades do NOT work with extra attacks again? As I read it...
"Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." ..."The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target," ..."you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
RAW you only get one blade per Attack Action, emphasis "a psychic blade" meaning one, and one blade per Bonus Action that follows an Attack Action on the same round that was used to attack with a psychic blade.
Strictly RAW, of course. Easy enough to house rule.
On a related note, a soulknife can make a great fey/elven creature with a little re-flavoring.
Elfshot - In folklore if you got a stitch in your side, a cramp, or other pain with no obvious cause you might believe you were elfshot. Or if your horse suddenly goes lame for no reason it is elfshot. Caused by invisible elves shooting invisible arrows that leave no physical sign.
Invisible psychic blades thrown by a hidden elf/fairy/goblin/fey 60 feet away that cause injury but leave no sign would seem exactly like elfshot to an average peasant.
In reading this forum and others it feels like we all love the flavor of the Soulknife but the RAW, to me, seems to have a bunch of limitations that don't live up to the flavor. My character carries regular knives for all the situations were the psychic blades are useless.
What are the pro's and con's?
PRO'S
You always have a weapon on you
They deal psychic damage
You can throw them all day and you never run out
I think they work in a dungeon or setting where everyone knows you are a Soulknife
CON'S
You make all your Stealth rolls and slide behind the mark, you place your psychic blade to their neck and ask them nicely to give up the information your after or their dead. Intimation is a wonderful thing. I don't think we can you do that. Is a question the attack action? Let's say it is. 6 seconds later it disappears, hold on bad guy because in 6 seconds I will manifest it again. Be patient. Bad guy pulls away on their turn, because your holding your index finger to their throat, so I now have no attack of opportunity other than my fist. What am I a Monk.
Just in this simple scenario:
They are only useful if you are attacking
You have nothing to attack with on their turn other than your unarmed attack
For the city infiltration rogue they work sometimes
They offer no use if you are trying to intimate someone
QUESTIONS
What is the problem with them being manifested until you dismiss them? If used in melee you still have it in hand, if thrown it remanifests on your next turn.
We tend it dismiss the minutiae of combat and think of a miss by our opponent as simply a whiff. In my mind if you have on armor they may have hit you but the armor did its job and no damage was taken, maybe you parried or blocked the attack, or maybe you dodged it. Real world AC is a combination or armor, dexterity, and what you are holding (DND gives no benefit for what you are holding other than a shield) . Meet a Lion bare handed and you will probably be able to answer the question of what a lions stomach looks like. Meet a Lion with a simple walking stick and you have a chance. Half the time the Soulknife Rogue is an unarmed combatant running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Everything loves the taste of chicken.
I am not trying to rant, I love this subclass. I just wonder if I love the idea and flavor of the subclass but the RAW for the subclass doesn't live up to the hype.
I see your point, but there's no reason not to carry conventional weapons. In fact it is essential to do so, because eventually you will run into something immune or resistant to psychic damage. If your primary class is Rogue you have proficiency with Rapiers, and you should carry one. If you are in melee range a Rapier does 1d8+dex compared to your psychic blade's 1d6+dex.
Psy blades are great if you have to go somewhere weapons are not allowed.
Psy blades are great if you want to try to assassinate someone with no trace, without a forensic investigation the death may even look like a heart attack.
Psy blades are a good ranged weapon. They go 60ft without disadvantage so they are better than regular daggers or hand crossbows at midrange. The range is a little better on a shortbow or light crossbow but those are two-handed.
You don't want everyone to know you are a soulknife, keep that need to know. Let everyone see you openly carrying a rapier and a dagger, and let them think they know what you are.
What is the problem with them being manifested until you dismiss them? If used in melee you still have it in hand, if thrown it remanifests on your next turn.
Anecdotally, I've seen people on the internet claim they houserule their Psychic Blades to be always-on, allowing them to interact with the rest of the game, and those same people claim there's no balance issue, it just makes Psychic Blades as good as everyone wants them to be.
What is the problem with them being manifested until you dismiss them? If used in melee you still have it in hand, if thrown it remanifests on your next turn.
Anecdotally, I've seen people on the internet claim they houserule their Psychic Blades to be always-on, allowing them to interact with the rest of the game, and those same people claim there's no balance issue, it just makes Psychic Blades as good as everyone wants them to be.
And that is exactly how we are going to rule my psychic blade (provided I get to do the quest/training to get them). Here's an excerpt of my homebrew "Dagger":
As an action, you use your psychic power to manifest blades in your free hands and make an attack. Those are replicas of daggers you know or have been attuned with, along with their magical, finesse and thrown properties. They stay manifested as long as you do not dismiss them.
The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage. If the dagger has an additional effect that needs it to be left on the target, you can choose to leave it there, otherwise you make it vanish and reappear in your free hand as a free action.
After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second psychic blade as a bonus action on the same turn. You do not apply your proficiency modifier to your off-hand attacks.
We have added a few more stuff - I'll probably publish my homebrew once we have some play test done with it - but that's the base of it. Similar to the Booming Blade cantrip, you manifest blades AND attack (range or melee, your choice - that's one difference to those cantrips). It lasts until dismissed, so you would keep an invisible blade "in hand" if you want. And it's kind of a "returning" blade, if you wish for it (for those "teleport" blades, kinda needed that rules there).
You could still flavour that they are invisible (since RAW they are), but that if you were to touch the blade, you would "feel" the blade, since it IS there, armed and ready...
On the surface they seem amazing (specs below). Treantmonk on YouTube is someone who's perspectives I highly respect, and I usually (though not always) agree with him. He raved about Psychic Blades. From my perspective, it's a good ability but there are caveats.
1d6 is decent, better than a dagger but not as much as a rapier. Having a bonus action attack guaranteed that (correct me if I'm wrong) also adds your Dex mod, is really nice. Being able to use it in melee or ranged, also really nice. Now for the but..
BUT:
As a rogue your bonus action is often spoken for. You can Hide (or with Tasha's) use Steady Aim and attack with advantage. You may want to disengage or dash, for any given reason. Two normal attacks are better than one attack with advantage; however, having advantage guarantees Sneak Attack applies. It's a really nice feature that is not without cost.
Now let's assume you have a DM who isn't a big poopoo head who refuses to ever give you a magic weapon. Just a +1 dagger does the same damage but also gives you a +1 to hit. Granted, Psychic damage is the best "type" - but does that solve anything when you have a magic weapon? Now factor in +1 short sword or rapier, and it's doing more damage and giving you a to hit bonus. Now factor in perhaps even better magic weapons.
Being fair, if the DM only gives you one magic weapon (ranged or melee), Psychic Blades gives you a solid option for switching from one to the other. IF the DM is just not giving you a magic weapon, later in the game I would call Psychic Blades a must have. It's also incredibly useful for the "You got arrested and they took all your stuff" scenarios, though that's obviously situational.
My thesis is not that Psychic Blades are bad or useless. Just that it is far less great than you might think when you initially read it. But this is all based on theory, as I have not yet played one. So am I missing something here, or did I asses the ability correctly?
Psychic Blades
3rd-level Soulknife feature
You can manifest your psionic power as shimmering blades of psychic energy. Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade. This magic blade is a simple melee weapon with the finesse and thrown properties. It has a normal range of 60 feet and no long range, and on a hit, it deals psychic damage equal to 1d6 plus the ability modifier you used for the attack roll. The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target, and it leaves no mark on its target if it deals damage.
After you attack with the blade, you can make a melee or ranged weapon attack with a second psychic blade as a bonus action on the same turn, provided your other hand is free to create it. The damage die of this bonus attack is 1d4, instead of 1d6.
Psychic Blades really shine as a thrown weapon. You can only throw a +1 dagger once before having to go and pick it up. Even if you have lots of daggers on you their normal range is only 20 and without feats or multiclassing you can only draw one per turn for free. Whether you're using your bonus action for another attack or Steady Aim, you can keep throwing Psychic Blades from 60 feet away turn after turn without losing your magic weapon and with full damage on the bonus attack if you choose to use it.
They're actually a bit underwhelming for melee since they can't be used for opportunity attacks, so you have to choose between two Psychic Blade attacks and no op attacks since you don't have any weapons on you, or keeping another melee weapon handy for op attacks but being forced into using Steady Aim.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Many rogues use daggers, 1d4, because ultimately a rogue's damage output isn't based on their blade of choice. It's from their Sneak Attack. The point of a rogue is to find ways to utilise sneak attack, without staying up close and in the danger. The psychic blades make it easier to do that with their 60 ft range.
You're also missing that it leaves no mark on the target and the blade immediately vanishes on hit or miss. You could commit a murder and unless they see you do it nobody will know it was one - the target just 'dropped dead' for no apparent reason. The RP you can have with that!
It also means you can freely wander into areas that have a strict no-weapons policy. You could be entirely buck naked - utterly weaponless, because you can literally summon psychic blades out of thin air. You can never be disarmed unless they actually remove your hands/arms.
It's one of the most interesting features any rogue subclass has, in my opinion, not just for the mechanics but also for the RP. I do admit I'm a tad bit biased because I'm an X-Men fan and this subclass was almost entirely based on Psylocke. But, still, one of the most interesting subclasses I've seen for a rogue.
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I've been playing a Soul Knife since December, and the Psychic Blades are fun and useful. I do find I use them at range, whether using steady aim, or hiding to gain advantage, but with a barbarian and paladin in the group, there is almost always an enemy of my target within five feet. If push comes to shove, and I'm in melee range, I'd still use the Psychic Blade and then cunning action to disengage. Being a rogue, my AC is decent, but my HP is not on par with our tanks.
That said, these are amazing tools. They're great for applying sneak attack damage. I've yet to use a bonus action blade, but I'm usually using my bonus action in some other way. Because of the ranged actions, I've tended towards firing either from a hiding location (and then attempting to hide again) or using steady aim. I am not sure if it's a compliment to the class, but my DM actually added some creatures that are immune to psychic damage. We figured out they only attacked if provoked with weapons unsheathed, so it was a cool way of working through some problems.
As for inspiration, Psylocke is a great inspiration. I initially used a bit of Gambit (rogue) and then Todd Kendrick brought up the movie Final Fantasy Kingsglaive. The Kingsglaive have some commonalities with the Soul Knife, including the teleportation with blades, special invisibility... kind of a cool way to see it (YouTube has clips). Their blades are traditional blades they sling around, but it gets the point across.
If these weapons had the range property I’d us this class constantly haha. Sharpshooter with soul knife sounds awesome!
The -5 +10 feature is less valuable with sneak attack.
But would be fun with a multiclass
Yeah. With only 1 attack (not counting bonus action that you would use for advantage - hide from a turn prior or steady aim), you kinda need to hit for the sneak attack.
Still useful to avoid half and three-quarter Cover and being able to sneak attack with a short bow at 320 ft.
It was mentioned in Cyb3rM1nd's answer (which is rather complete) but to reiterate, at range, those blades are dangerous. 60ft (max dagger range) without disadvantage on your roll is good for 1d6 thrown with potential sneak attack.
I think people might still notice the flash of psy-blade flying to the target but since it leaves no marks and disappear on hit/miss, the RP potential is very present.
I'm a big fan of those! :3
Hyrkali
Full DNDBeyond.com in Dark Mode? Yes please!
Just want to chime in that the various Belts of Giant Strength can grant an equivalent to a magic weapon bonus for psychic blades or other builds that use natural/unarmed attacks. And as a bonus you get great Athletics/jumps.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Since the blades have the thrown property, they could be used with the strength attribute if advantageous. Since so many of the soul knifes features are based on using the blades, I think belts of giant strength could be an interesting reward for a soul knife.
the strength boosts wouldn’t be super ridiculous on a rogue, but would effectively increase jumping and climbing for the rogue. Along with associated save boosts. The damage and accuracy of the blades would go up to if the choice was made to throw with strength.
im sure there are tons of homebrew to boost the blades too.
I've paired the Soul Blade(9) with a Swarmkeeper (11) ranger. The Gathering Swarm ability does work with the blades and offers some nice boost with +damage, push-pull. or free disengage. The further you go up in each level the more they synergize together (hover+ teleporting? yes please), ). One could even theme the swarm as psi effects (mage hand) or psi effects as the swarm. Extra attack, Perma invisibility (Nature’s Veil) and damage boosting/thematic spells are just gravy.
If you think about it, The bonus action attack is the same as the crossbow expert feat; the damage is on par with the hand crossbow, the attack within 5ft is nulled because... well stabby stabby, and you reload with a thought. With this in mind, it is a subclass with a built-in feat.
It's also the utility of the blades at higher levels (ie.9th) that really makes them shine even if you don't use them as a weapon. Teleporting up to 80ft or adding a 1d8 to an attack roll. Someone mentioned Sharpshooter and the homing blades have a good chance to cancel the -5.
Sadly they dont count as ranged weapons to apply the Sharpshooter feat.
Sharpshooter only partially requires a ranged weapon. You can apply 2/3 of the feat to ranged attacks with melee weapons:
The only part that requires a ranged weapon is the -5 to hit/+10 damage (which, admittedly, is the part Utsu_Yami erroneously claimed could apply).
As I mentioned above, Extra Attack won't work with Psychic Blades, and turning on Invisibility for a round has maximum synergy with a rogue but minimum synergy with Psychic Blades: spending the bonus action removes the second Psychic Blades attack and of course you can't use the Psychic Blades with an Opportunity Attack, so all you're getting offensively is Advantage on one single attack. You'd be better off as a different Rogue subclass.
Only worse, yes. The range can be viewed as a wash without Sharpshooter (30/120 -> 60/60), but the crippling part of Psychic Blades is that they only exist during their attack, so they won't interact with the rest of the game - you can't make OAs with them, and buffing spells like Elemental Weapon don't work on them, and it's impossible to find a magic weapon that will synergize properly (e.g. you will never get a +1 to +3 bonus with them).
10 to 80/100/120 is average 45/55/65, but in practice this is useless: if you make a plan that requires you to roll 8 on 1d8, your plan is probably going to fail, and if you make a plan requiring a 10 foot teleport, usually additional range won't help. You can think of the teleport as having a 10-foot range in almost all circumstances - the only exception is when you have plenty of time and badly need to teleport, so you can afford to throw away multiple dice (at a rate of 1/round) on trying to get where you need to go.
Significantly better than +1d8 to an attack roll. First of all, you know when an attack misses, which has synergy with other abilities (e.g. if you multiclass into Battle Master Fighter and get Precision Attack, you get to know if your roll missed or not when choosing to use Precision Attack), and second of all, if you still miss after using it, you keep the die, and third of all, it's +1d8, then +1d10, then +1d12. The combination lets you nail down a target's AC with extreme speed: you can roll to hit, find out if you miss, then add your 1d8-1d12 die, and then either you hit or miss (which gives you another datum for determing your target's AC), and on a miss you keep your die. Homing Strikes is well-designed, unlike Psychic Teleportation (which should have been a flat distance, and on a roll of X+ you get to keep the die).
As covered above, illegal - you can't apply the -5 to psychic blades, so you can't cancel it.
Yeap I was wrong about the sharpshooter. oops, my bad.
Explain to me why PsiBlades do NOT work with extra attacks again? As I read it...
"Whenever you take the Attack action, you can manifest a psychic blade from your free hand and make the attack with that blade." ..."The blade vanishes immediately after it hits or misses its target," ..."you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
SOoo you have an empty hand, you attack, make a blade, hit or miss it vanishes, you extra attack with a now-empty hand, make a blade, repeat if needed. I understand you only have 1 bonus action and you DON'T have to take that bonus action attack because you have better uses for a bonus action as a rogue. Like Disengage and Dash, which...
(edit. there is the argument of attack action and take an action to attack. I would also argue that it is natural attack that needs empty hands. like how claws work)
Psychic Teleportation can do both in a single bonus action (and a Psi Die). With an average of 4.5 on a die 8 (my example as a level 9 rogue), that is more distance than you cover with your base movement speed (assuming 30ft/turn) and teleport does not proc OA Even a roll of 1 is still 10ft movement while disengaging. So run in 20ft, Attack Action, Extra attack, bonus action to teleport away 10ft (roll a 1) and move 10ft more and you are back to where you started. Kinda like the mobile feat.
And yes you use your bonus action to become invisibility (with the Rangers Nature’s Veil in my example) and thus can not take additional bonus action or the bonus psi attack. However, Natural Veil also does not break on attack or action. Thus you get to roll for advantage on your attack action, with sneak attacks and attacks against have to roll with disadvantage until the start of your next turn. You can also disengage as OAs are only good against targets that can be seen. Would it be better on other Rogue types? sure... but then again NV would be good on most other classes too.
I compared it to Crossbow expert (SA) just with the mechanics in mind which you agreed to, and I agree with you that there are faults in that thinking as well, but there are similarities nevertheless. Then again, unless you have Extra attacks as a rogue, you lose the ability to multi-attack or do not have a free hand to reload (as per the ammunition property not the reload property) with a hand crossbow away ways.( as per my example)
I get what you mean that the damage is sub-par in most cases; it should be like the fighter's version and scale with Psi-Die, but if you look at it in a vacuum as just a damage ability, which it does compete with entry subclass level damage abilities, then you are missing on a lot of utility it can afford.
IMHO
RAW you only get one blade per Attack Action, emphasis "a psychic blade" meaning one, and one blade per Bonus Action that follows an Attack Action on the same round that was used to attack with a psychic blade.
Strictly RAW, of course. Easy enough to house rule.
On a related note, a soulknife can make a great fey/elven creature with a little re-flavoring.
Elfshot - In folklore if you got a stitch in your side, a cramp, or other pain with no obvious cause you might believe you were elfshot. Or if your horse suddenly goes lame for no reason it is elfshot. Caused by invisible elves shooting invisible arrows that leave no physical sign.
Invisible psychic blades thrown by a hidden elf/fairy/goblin/fey 60 feet away that cause injury but leave no sign would seem exactly like elfshot to an average peasant.
In reading this forum and others it feels like we all love the flavor of the Soulknife but the RAW, to me, seems to have a bunch of limitations that don't live up to the flavor. My character carries regular knives for all the situations were the psychic blades are useless.
What are the pro's and con's?
PRO'S
You always have a weapon on you
They deal psychic damage
You can throw them all day and you never run out
I think they work in a dungeon or setting where everyone knows you are a Soulknife
CON'S
You make all your Stealth rolls and slide behind the mark, you place your psychic blade to their neck and ask them nicely to give up the information your after or their dead. Intimation is a wonderful thing. I don't think we can you do that. Is a question the attack action? Let's say it is. 6 seconds later it disappears, hold on bad guy because in 6 seconds I will manifest it again. Be patient. Bad guy pulls away on their turn, because your holding your index finger to their throat, so I now have no attack of opportunity other than my fist. What am I a Monk.
Just in this simple scenario:
They are only useful if you are attacking
You have nothing to attack with on their turn other than your unarmed attack
For the city infiltration rogue they work sometimes
They offer no use if you are trying to intimate someone
QUESTIONS
What is the problem with them being manifested until you dismiss them? If used in melee you still have it in hand, if thrown it remanifests on your next turn.
We tend it dismiss the minutiae of combat and think of a miss by our opponent as simply a whiff. In my mind if you have on armor they may have hit you but the armor did its job and no damage was taken, maybe you parried or blocked the attack, or maybe you dodged it. Real world AC is a combination or armor, dexterity, and what you are holding (DND gives no benefit for what you are holding other than a shield) . Meet a Lion bare handed and you will probably be able to answer the question of what a lions stomach looks like. Meet a Lion with a simple walking stick and you have a chance. Half the time the Soulknife Rogue is an unarmed combatant running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Everything loves the taste of chicken.
I am not trying to rant, I love this subclass. I just wonder if I love the idea and flavor of the subclass but the RAW for the subclass doesn't live up to the hype.
I see your point, but there's no reason not to carry conventional weapons. In fact it is essential to do so, because eventually you will run into something immune or resistant to psychic damage. If your primary class is Rogue you have proficiency with Rapiers, and you should carry one. If you are in melee range a Rapier does 1d8+dex compared to your psychic blade's 1d6+dex.
Psy blades are great if you have to go somewhere weapons are not allowed.
Psy blades are great if you want to try to assassinate someone with no trace, without a forensic investigation the death may even look like a heart attack.
Psy blades are a good ranged weapon. They go 60ft without disadvantage so they are better than regular daggers or hand crossbows at midrange. The range is a little better on a shortbow or light crossbow but those are two-handed.
You don't want everyone to know you are a soulknife, keep that need to know. Let everyone see you openly carrying a rapier and a dagger, and let them think they know what you are.
Anecdotally, I've seen people on the internet claim they houserule their Psychic Blades to be always-on, allowing them to interact with the rest of the game, and those same people claim there's no balance issue, it just makes Psychic Blades as good as everyone wants them to be.
And that is exactly how we are going to rule my psychic blade (provided I get to do the quest/training to get them).
Here's an excerpt of my homebrew "Dagger":
We have added a few more stuff - I'll probably publish my homebrew once we have some play test done with it - but that's the base of it.
Similar to the Booming Blade cantrip, you manifest blades AND attack (range or melee, your choice - that's one difference to those cantrips).
It lasts until dismissed, so you would keep an invisible blade "in hand" if you want.
And it's kind of a "returning" blade, if you wish for it (for those "teleport" blades, kinda needed that rules there).
You could still flavour that they are invisible (since RAW they are), but that if you were to touch the blade, you would "feel" the blade, since it IS there, armed and ready...
Hyrkali
Full DNDBeyond.com in Dark Mode? Yes please!