@ Gothyl: In fairness, I can see why they might want to change that. Having a character with a clear disability going out of their way to try and hide it can bring up unpleasant feelings for someone who actually might be disabled and has had difficulty coming to terms with it; not that every person with a disability will have that reaction, but I do have friends who on most days own it pretty well but occasionally encounter something that triggers *very* unpleasant memories to the point where they have to say "I'm sorry, I have to peace out!" I can understand WotC looking back and trying to avoid that.
The changes WotC have made, while subtle, are important and a positive step.
Vestani are/were stereotypical gypsies. In many peoples minds, gypsies are lazy drunks who don't work. You can look up the discrimination that Irish Travelers and Romani Gypsies endure today.
The changes to Strahd are as follows (taken from here):
vistani get their own stat blocks in the npc & monsters appendix
rather than wanderers who live outside civilization, they are just wanderers.
phasing about them drinking heavily and being lazy has been removed
one of the vistani characters is not longer so drunk that they are poisoned
a NPC is no longer ashamed of their prosthetic limb.
haunted one changed from him (or her) to them
To the vast majority of people, these changes will make hardly any difference, but to the affected communities (romani, disabled, etc), it shows that WotC does care about their representation, and that it should be more positive than it has been in the past.
@ Gothyl: In fairness, I can see why they might want to change that. Having a character with a clear disability going out of their way to try and hide it can bring up unpleasant feelings for someone who actually might be disabled and has had difficulty coming to terms with it; not that every person with a disability will have that reaction, but I do have friends who on most days own it pretty well but occasionally encounter something that triggers *very* unpleasant memories to the point where they have to say "I'm sorry, I have to peace out!" I can understand WotC looking back and trying to avoid that.
Yeah I understand very well that feeling. I would still want Ezmerelda story to be told tho. Has potential of being character building and people need that.
I suppose if they made this change what else is not going to make the Sensitivity Editing stage of the creative process of WoTC. We will never know.
The weird thing here is the number of people acting (or pretending) that adding nuance to orcs and drow is suddenly going to turn the entire races into tree-hugging hippies or something. That's ridiculous. There will still be evil drow and evil orcs, just like we have evil humans, evil dwarves, and evil elves. Somebody mentioned the need for Stormtroopers, well, what species were Stormtroopers in Star Wars? Human! There were good humans and bad humans and nobody assumed that there was anything innate about it. Wasn't a problem.
Drow society is a particularly thorny issue in my book. Forget the racial implications of their skin color, or the sexist implications of the only prominent matriarchal society in D&D being one where men are enslaved and emasculated. The society itself doesn't even make sense, it's too dysfunctional. Lolth is even said to watch for signs of too much cooperation among drow and single them out for destruction by their rivals. A society like that basically can't exist as an actual society. They should have collapsed in on themselves due to infighting, and that's before you take into account all the hostile, aggressive neighbors they have.
So anyway, you can have the evil orc warlord or evil drow wizard or whatever, but the difference is that people will be trying to stop them because they're burning villages and summoning demons, not because they're an orc and a drow.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The changes WotC have made, while subtle, are important and a positive step.
Vestani are/were stereotypical gypsies. In many peoples minds, gypsies are lazy drunks who don't work. You can look up the discrimination that Irish Travelers and Romani Gypsies endure today.
The changes to Strahd are as follows (taken from here):
vistani get their own stat blocks in the npc & monsters appendix
rather than wanderers who live outside civilization, they are just wanderers.
phasing about them drinking heavily and being lazy has been removed
one of the vistani characters is not longer so drunk that they are poisoned
a NPC is no longer ashamed of their prosthetic limb.
haunted one changed from him (or her) to them
To the vast majority of people, these changes will make hardly any difference, but to the affected communities (romani, disabled, etc), it shows that WotC does care about their representation, and that it should be more positive than it has been in the past.
Yes its in general a good thing but I feel they might be robbing us of good stories
The weird thing here is the number of people acting (or pretending) that adding nuance to orcs and drow is suddenly going to turn the entire races into tree-hugging hippies or something. That's ridiculous. There will still be evil drow and evil orcs, just like we have evil humans, evil dwarves, and evil elves. Somebody mentioned the need for Stormtroopers, well, what species were Stormtroopers in Star Wars? Human! There were good humans and bad humans and nobody assumed that there was anything innate about it. Wasn't a problem.
Drow society is a particularly thorny issue in my book. Forget the racial implications of their skin color, or the sexist implications of the only prominent matriarchal society in D&D being one where men are enslaved and emasculated. The society itself doesn't even make sense, it's too dysfunctional. Lolth is even said to watch for signs of too much cooperation among drow and single them out for destruction by their rivals. A society like that basically can't exist as an actual society. They should have collapsed in on themselves due to infighting, and that's before you take into account all the hostile, aggressive neighbors they have.
So anyway, you can have the evil orc warlord or evil drow wizard or whatever, but the difference is that people will be trying to stop them because they're burning villages and summoning demons, not because they're an orc and a drow.
This is a very well put argument, and I agree with the points you make.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
The weird thing here is the number of people acting (or pretending) that adding nuance to orcs and drow is suddenly going to turn the entire races into tree-hugging hippies or something. That's ridiculous. There will still be evil drow and evil orcs, just like we have evil humans, evil dwarves, and evil elves. Somebody mentioned the need for Stormtroopers, well, what species were Stormtroopers in Star Wars? Human! There were good humans and bad humans and nobody assumed that there was anything innate about it. Wasn't a problem.
Drow society is a particularly thorny issue in my book. Forget the racial implications of their skin color, or the sexist implications of the only prominent matriarchal society in D&D being one where men are enslaved and emasculated. The society itself doesn't even make sense, it's too dysfunctional. Lolth is even said to watch for signs of too much cooperation among drow and single them out for destruction by their rivals. A society like that basically can't exist as an actual society. They should have collapsed in on themselves due to infighting, and that's before you take into account all the hostile, aggressive neighbors they have.
So anyway, you can have the evil orc warlord or evil drow wizard or whatever, but the difference is that people will be trying to stop them because they're burning villages and summoning demons, not because they're an orc and a drow.
The weird thing here is the number of people acting (or pretending) that adding nuance to orcs and drow is suddenly going to turn the entire races into tree-hugging hippies or something. That's ridiculous. There will still be evil drow and evil orcs, just like we have evil humans, evil dwarves, and evil elves. Somebody mentioned the need for Stormtroopers, well, what species were Stormtroopers in Star Wars? Human! There were good humans and bad humans and nobody assumed that there was anything innate about it. Wasn't a problem.
Drow society is a particularly thorny issue in my book. Forget the racial implications of their skin color, or the sexist implications of the only prominent matriarchal society in D&D being one where men are enslaved and emasculated. The society itself doesn't even make sense, it's too dysfunctional. Lolth is even said to watch for signs of too much cooperation among drow and single them out for destruction by their rivals. A society like that basically can't exist as an actual society. They should have collapsed in on themselves due to infighting, and that's before you take into account all the hostile, aggressive neighbors they have.
So anyway, you can have the evil orc warlord or evil drow wizard or whatever, but the difference is that people will be trying to stop them because they're burning villages and summoning demons, not because they're an orc and a drow.
Weren't the stormtroopers clones?
Well in the prequels, yes. in the original trilogy, no.
The weird thing here is the number of people acting (or pretending) that adding nuance to orcs and drow is suddenly going to turn the entire races into tree-hugging hippies or something. That's ridiculous. There will still be evil drow and evil orcs, just like we have evil humans, evil dwarves, and evil elves. Somebody mentioned the need for Stormtroopers, well, what species were Stormtroopers in Star Wars? Human! There were good humans and bad humans and nobody assumed that there was anything innate about it. Wasn't a problem.
Drow society is a particularly thorny issue in my book. Forget the racial implications of their skin color, or the sexist implications of the only prominent matriarchal society in D&D being one where men are enslaved and emasculated. The society itself doesn't even make sense, it's too dysfunctional. Lolth is even said to watch for signs of too much cooperation among drow and single them out for destruction by their rivals. A society like that basically can't exist as an actual society. They should have collapsed in on themselves due to infighting, and that's before you take into account all the hostile, aggressive neighbors they have.
So anyway, you can have the evil orc warlord or evil drow wizard or whatever, but the difference is that people will be trying to stop them because they're burning villages and summoning demons, not because they're an orc and a drow.
Weren't the stormtroopers clones?
Well in the prequels, yes. in the original trilogy, no.
@ Gothyl: In fairness, I can see why they might want to change that. Having a character with a clear disability going out of their way to try and hide it can bring up unpleasant feelings for someone who actually might be disabled and has had difficulty coming to terms with it; not that every person with a disability will have that reaction, but I do have friends who on most days own it pretty well but occasionally encounter something that triggers *very* unpleasant memories to the point where they have to say "I'm sorry, I have to peace out!" I can understand WotC looking back and trying to avoid that.
Unless another something more controversial shows up. xD
The changes WotC have made, while subtle, are important and a positive step.
Vestani are/were stereotypical gypsies. In many peoples minds, gypsies are lazy drunks who don't work. You can look up the discrimination that Irish Travelers and Romani Gypsies endure today.
The changes to Strahd are as follows (taken from here):
To the vast majority of people, these changes will make hardly any difference, but to the affected communities (romani, disabled, etc), it shows that WotC does care about their representation, and that it should be more positive than it has been in the past.
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Yes, yes it is.
SAUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah I understand very well that feeling. I would still want Ezmerelda story to be told tho. Has potential of being character building and people need that.
I suppose if they made this change what else is not going to make the Sensitivity Editing stage of the creative process of WoTC. We will never know.
Yup
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
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No, this is still just a conversation.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
That's my biggest fear, that I basically caused a flame war.
Fear? You should be the proud inciter of nuclear war.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
... why?
Dude now we are just talking about how long we have been talking.
SAUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not?
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
i think that is their point XD at least on their re quoting it seems
The weird thing here is the number of people acting (or pretending) that adding nuance to orcs and drow is suddenly going to turn the entire races into tree-hugging hippies or something. That's ridiculous. There will still be evil drow and evil orcs, just like we have evil humans, evil dwarves, and evil elves. Somebody mentioned the need for Stormtroopers, well, what species were Stormtroopers in Star Wars? Human! There were good humans and bad humans and nobody assumed that there was anything innate about it. Wasn't a problem.
Drow society is a particularly thorny issue in my book. Forget the racial implications of their skin color, or the sexist implications of the only prominent matriarchal society in D&D being one where men are enslaved and emasculated. The society itself doesn't even make sense, it's too dysfunctional. Lolth is even said to watch for signs of too much cooperation among drow and single them out for destruction by their rivals. A society like that basically can't exist as an actual society. They should have collapsed in on themselves due to infighting, and that's before you take into account all the hostile, aggressive neighbors they have.
So anyway, you can have the evil orc warlord or evil drow wizard or whatever, but the difference is that people will be trying to stop them because they're burning villages and summoning demons, not because they're an orc and a drow.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'm going to leave starting a flame war to someone who's good at it.
Yes its in general a good thing but I feel they might be robbing us of good stories
This is a very well put argument, and I agree with the points you make.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Weren't the stormtroopers clones?
SAUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well in the prequels, yes. in the original trilogy, no.
Ah I see.
Also we are super off topic.
SAUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!