pushing it again but the rather awful film The Mummy Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, the heroes raise an army of the dead at the end to fight the bad guys...at least i remeber they do, i kind of blanked most of that film franchise from my memory.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
pushing it again but the rather awful film The Mummy Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, the heroes raise an army of the dead at the end to fight the bad guys...at least i remeber they do, i kind of blanked most of that film franchise from my memory.
The first one was great. The others.... well, ‘nuf said.
pushing it again but the rather awful film The Mummy Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, the heroes raise an army of the dead at the end to fight the bad guys...at least i remeber they do, i kind of blanked most of that film franchise from my memory.
I stopped after the second movie. it was so bad I nearly cried.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
@Kotath True. In Tale of Two Cities Jerry Cruncher is a grave robber and he’s kind of heroic. He doesn’t reanimate the dead though.
Ghosts and spirits are a special case. They are as often portrayed as good as evil. However they are not inhabiting their corpses and are usually portrayed as non-cursed free agents. When they are cursed, it is as likely from upper planar sources as lower, as punishment for some crime or failure.
Closest I could think of in a literary sense (and it is pushing it) would be Aragon in LOTR leading the ghost army.
Aragorn got their consent. He went to them, showed them Narsil (aka Anduril) to prove he was the heir of Isildur, and offered to free them from their curse if they redeemed themselves by fighting for him. And when they had kept their promise, he released them.
This is not remotely the same thing as animating a dead body, without the consent of the body's owner.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Closest I could think of in a literary sense (and it is pushing it) would be Aragon in LOTR leading the ghost army.
Aragorn got their consent. He went to them, showed them Narsil (aka Anduril) to prove he was the heir of Isildur, and offered to free them from their curse if they redeemed themselves by fighting for him. And when they had kept their promise, he released them.
This is not remotely the same thing as animating a dead body, without the consent of the body's owner.
I did admit I was pushing it.
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
Depends on how you play them. When I played one I made sure to specifically never raise anyone our party slayed. I mean we were also playing in Tomb of annihilation so having common folk see undead was not an issue.
it’s not about the power, it’s how you use it. I love the idea of a non evil necromancer but people have a hard time getting passed stereotypes. The necromancer has been pigeonholed. I like the idea of necromancy being seen as evil in the world but you are the one exception.
A person that grew up the child of an evil Necromancer, locked in their tower atop a vast and dangerous mountainous landscape. As they got older and saw the terrible things their parent was doing, they knew they must escape and someday return to stop them. But in order to do that they have to become powerful enough to do so. With no innate abilities or talent of their own and nobody else around to teach them the ways of physical combat, there was only one option, delve into their parent’s teachings, necromancy.
The great thing about wizards is you can learn new spells. So there are 2 options from here:
1. If you have a cool DM that likes character development, perhaps they would allow you to switch schools to something else later down the line once the character is exposed to all of the other Magics and knowledge the world outside of that one wizard tower has to offer.
2. or you continue your ways and use your necromancer powers for good. “Look you might not like the way I did it, but I just saved the f***ing world, you’re welcome!” I could definitely see that as justifying at least a neutral/neutral good alignment. Even alignments can be restrictive and have their problems but that’s for another time.
Welp, definitely going to expand on this and add it to my list of characters I hope to play someday, thank you forums. lol
shameless self promotion but I did also do a few pages of "types" of necromancer and how to play them, it starts from the page I linked to previously in this thread.
On another side note....do people have similar quarms about good/evil, moral/immoral, taboo/acceptable with regards to summoning celestials, fey, fiends and elementas? In essence you rip them from their home plane and usually without any consent or awareness it is about to happen and only with the notion of them doing something dangerous for you. If you don't...why would that be? It'll give me something to think about whilst I go walk the dog......
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
Planescape had the Dustmen faction, which had a lot of necromancers and death priests in its ranks. They also used skeletons and zombies as basic labor via death contracts: they would pay a person a small amount of money in order to be granted the right to animate that individual's remains upon death. They were definitely creepy individuals, but not prone to evil.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Closest I could think of in a literary sense (and it is pushing it) would be Aragon in LOTR leading the ghost army.
Aragorn got their consent. He went to them, showed them Narsil (aka Anduril) to prove he was the heir of Isildur, and offered to free them from their curse if they redeemed themselves by fighting for him. And when they had kept their promise, he released them.
This is not remotely the same thing as animating a dead body, without the consent of the body's owner.
Damn, I was never interested in the concept before but now I kind of want to play a necromancer that bargains with its charges for consent and helps them right the wrongs done (or about to be done) to them and their loved ones.
Even if you believe that necrotic = evil and souls mean necro stuff is wrong, Necromancy is NOT evil.
Because it also contains spells like Raise Dead and Life Transference.
Their is one and only one Evil with a capital E school of Magic.
The Evil School of Magic is ENCHANTMENT.
There is not a single spell of 4th level or higher that would be legal in a free country. Most of the lower level spells are also evil.
There are multiple non-damaging spells that instantly turn people Hostile to you. Ever been bullied as a kid? That is basically what Viscous Mockery is. There is of course the ultimate Date **** spell "Modify Memory". Yes, there are a few positive spells, such as Bless. But nothing as good as Raise Dead. Honestly, people could go without the few good Enchantment spells, if it meant removing the evil ones.
Necromancy is evil by fiat of the Game Creators, based on prejudice. Enchantment is evil because the spells it do vile, horrible things.
I'm just going to start a new thread about amending the animate dead spell because i dont want to derail this thread anymore than I may have already done.....
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
it’s not about the power, it’s how you use it. I love the idea of a non evil necromancer but people have a hard time getting passed stereotypes. The necromancer has been pigeonholed. I like the idea of necromancy being seen as evil in the world but you are the one exception.
A person that grew up the child of an evil Necromancer, locked in their tower atop a vast and dangerous mountainous landscape. As they got older and saw the terrible things their parent was doing, they knew they must escape and someday return to stop them. But in order to do that they have to become powerful enough to do so. With no innate abilities or talent of their own and nobody else around to teach them the ways of physical combat, there was only one option, delve into their parent’s teachings, necromancy.
The great thing about wizards is you can learn new spells. So there are 2 options from here:
1. If you have a cool DM that likes character development, perhaps they would allow you to switch schools to something else later down the line once the character is exposed to all of the other Magics and knowledge the world outside of that one wizard tower has to offer.
2. or you continue your ways and use your necromancer powers for good. “Look you might not like the way I did it, but I just saved the f***ing world, you’re welcome!” I could definitely see that as justifying at least a neutral/neutral good alignment. Even alignments can be restrictive and have their problems but that’s for another time.
Welp, definitely going to expand on this and add it to my list of characters I hope to play someday, thank you forums. lol
Wow! I never thought of that. That would actually work.
Another to consider: In-game, RP cultural understanding of the Afterlife regardless of 5e rules.
Evil is an intent, not an act. It would be nice to be so simple, but players kill "evil" creatures all the time.
...and in one story I saw, players killed a bunch of "mercenaries holding a 'friend' hostage" who were actually bodyguards of the "hostage". They were protecting him and his dangerous knowledge from the one who hired the adventurers - which by extension, meant protecting him from the adventurers working for said villain. Oops.
Are those players Evil?
It's all about the intent, not the act.
If the character's understanding of the afterlife doesn't lend itself to believing Necromancy to be an Evil act, is the character Evil?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Another to consider: In-game, RP cultural understanding of the Afterlife regardless of 5e rules.
Evil is an intent, not an act. It would be nice to be so simple, but players kill "evil" creatures all the time.
...and in one story I saw, players killed a bunch of "mercenaries holding a 'friend' hostage" who were actually bodyguards of the "hostage". They were protecting him and his dangerous knowledge from the one who hired the adventurers - which by extension, meant protecting him from the adventurers working for said villain. Oops.
Are those players Evil?
It's all about the intent, not the act.
If the character's understanding of the afterlife doesn't lend itself to believing Necromancy to be an Evil act, is the character Evil?
This is a terrible argument. If you do something horrible to someone, regardless of your intent, the person in question still suffered. Too many people want to believe that the horrendous things that they do to others is not "evil" because they don't believe it to be wrong.
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Closest I could think of in a literary sense (and it is pushing it) would be Aragon in LOTR leading the ghost army.
and he didn't even raise them ;)
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
pushing it again but the rather awful film The Mummy Tomb of the Dragon Emperor, the heroes raise an army of the dead at the end to fight the bad guys...at least i remeber they do, i kind of blanked most of that film franchise from my memory.
The first one was great. The others.... well, ‘nuf said.
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I stopped after the second movie. it was so bad I nearly cried.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
Totally true.
Aragorn got their consent. He went to them, showed them Narsil (aka Anduril) to prove he was the heir of Isildur, and offered to free them from their curse if they redeemed themselves by fighting for him. And when they had kept their promise, he released them.
This is not remotely the same thing as animating a dead body, without the consent of the body's owner.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I did admit I was pushing it.
Fair enough.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Depends on how you play them. When I played one I made sure to specifically never raise anyone our party slayed. I mean we were also playing in Tomb of annihilation so having common folk see undead was not an issue.
it’s not about the power, it’s how you use it. I love the idea of a non evil necromancer but people have a hard time getting passed stereotypes. The necromancer has been pigeonholed. I like the idea of necromancy being seen as evil in the world but you are the one exception.
A person that grew up the child of an evil Necromancer, locked in their tower atop a vast and dangerous mountainous landscape. As they got older and saw the terrible things their parent was doing, they knew they must escape and someday return to stop them. But in order to do that they have to become powerful enough to do so. With no innate abilities or talent of their own and nobody else around to teach them the ways of physical combat, there was only one option, delve into their parent’s teachings, necromancy.
The great thing about wizards is you can learn new spells. So there are 2 options from here:
1. If you have a cool DM that likes character development, perhaps they would allow you to switch schools to something else later down the line once the character is exposed to all of the other Magics and knowledge the world outside of that one wizard tower has to offer.
2. or you continue your ways and use your necromancer powers for good. “Look you might not like the way I did it, but I just saved the f***ing world, you’re welcome!” I could definitely see that as justifying at least a neutral/neutral good alignment. Even alignments can be restrictive and have their problems but that’s for another time.
Welp, definitely going to expand on this and add it to my list of characters I hope to play someday, thank you forums. lol
shameless self promotion but I did also do a few pages of "types" of necromancer and how to play them, it starts from the page I linked to previously in this thread.
On another side note....do people have similar quarms about good/evil, moral/immoral, taboo/acceptable with regards to summoning celestials, fey, fiends and elementas? In essence you rip them from their home plane and usually without any consent or awareness it is about to happen and only with the notion of them doing something dangerous for you. If you don't...why would that be? It'll give me something to think about whilst I go walk the dog......
Planescape had the Dustmen faction, which had a lot of necromancers and death priests in its ranks. They also used skeletons and zombies as basic labor via death contracts: they would pay a person a small amount of money in order to be granted the right to animate that individual's remains upon death. They were definitely creepy individuals, but not prone to evil.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Damn, I was never interested in the concept before but now I kind of want to play a necromancer that bargains with its charges for consent and helps them right the wrongs done (or about to be done) to them and their loved ones.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Even if you believe that necrotic = evil and souls mean necro stuff is wrong, Necromancy is NOT evil.
Because it also contains spells like Raise Dead and Life Transference.
Their is one and only one Evil with a capital E school of Magic.
The Evil School of Magic is ENCHANTMENT.
There is not a single spell of 4th level or higher that would be legal in a free country. Most of the lower level spells are also evil.
There are multiple non-damaging spells that instantly turn people Hostile to you. Ever been bullied as a kid? That is basically what Viscous Mockery is. There is of course the ultimate Date **** spell "Modify Memory". Yes, there are a few positive spells, such as Bless. But nothing as good as Raise Dead. Honestly, people could go without the few good Enchantment spells, if it meant removing the evil ones.
Necromancy is evil by fiat of the Game Creators, based on prejudice. Enchantment is evil because the spells it do vile, horrible things.
100% agreed
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
I'm just going to start a new thread about amending the animate dead spell because i dont want to derail this thread anymore than I may have already done.....
Wow! I never thought of that. That would actually work.
Another to consider: In-game, RP cultural understanding of the Afterlife regardless of 5e rules.
Evil is an intent, not an act. It would be nice to be so simple, but players kill "evil" creatures all the time.
...and in one story I saw, players killed a bunch of "mercenaries holding a 'friend' hostage" who were actually bodyguards of the "hostage". They were protecting him and his dangerous knowledge from the one who hired the adventurers - which by extension, meant protecting him from the adventurers working for said villain. Oops.
Are those players Evil?
It's all about the intent, not the act.
If the character's understanding of the afterlife doesn't lend itself to believing Necromancy to be an Evil act, is the character Evil?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
This is a terrible argument. If you do something horrible to someone, regardless of your intent, the person in question still suffered. Too many people want to believe that the horrendous things that they do to others is not "evil" because they don't believe it to be wrong.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master