All moral measures are constructs. It is unlikely that everyone will agree.
My measurement of Good and Evil is the level of altruism and egoism. This does not mesh well with those who do things defined as Good by whatever tenets they follow if the ultimate purpose is to receive a reward (such was spending eternity in the Twin Paradises after death).
I don't believe that there is pure Altruism or pure Egoism. One who wants to help others must still care about their own health. One who wants power must consider those who actually grant it. So, I measure Good as Altruism with only necessary Egoism and Evil as excess Egoism with bare minimum Altruism.
Where does Necromancy fall in that scale of mine? Can someone raise dead with more Altruism than Egoism?
To say it's impossible would require one to make judgments on possibilities likely yet unknown. Nobody's omniscient. I proposed possibilities on a measure of Altruism and Egoism. It's not objective, but neither is putting any kind of personally justified requirements of moral measures such as local legal edicts or social insight from other societies.
If you wish to claim it is impossible, do so with the acknowledgement that it is your measure by which you do so. I stated that it is possible by my measure and make no claims of objectivity.
What makes something evil is not what you intend to use it for, but what people COULD use it for.
Following this logic to its conclusion would call for basically the dismantling of modern society. Electricity can be used to electrocute people. Fire can burn people, so that's out too. Trees could be chopped down and fashioned into weapons that kill people, so they've got to go.
Basically since people have the capacity for evil, anything can be used for evil. Divination can be used to find your assassination target or violate someone's inner thoughts just as thoroughly as Enchantment does. Abjuration can be used to deny care to a critically wounded enemy or lock someone in a closet to starve or to hide your kidnapping victim from rescuers.
I think the answer has already been stated here. Necromancy is evil by default in 5e because the default universe is one with objectively evil planes and monsters and necromancy is tied to those things. But in a game where the first rule is that you can remake the rules however you see fit, the default setting on something doesn't carry as much weight as it might in a video game or something.
What makes something evil is not what you intend to use it for, but what people COULD use it for.
Following this logic to its conclusion would call for basically the dismantling of modern society. Electricity can be used to electrocute people. Fire can burn people, so that's out too. Trees could be chopped down and fashioned into weapons that kill people, so they've got to go.
Basically since people have the capacity for evil, anything can be used for evil. Divination can be used to find your assassination target or violate someone's inner thoughts just as thoroughly as Enchantment does. Abjuration can be used to deny care to a critically wounded enemy or lock someone in a closet to starve or to hide your kidnapping victim from rescuers.
I think the answer has already been stated here. Necromancy is evil by default in 5e because the default universe is one with objectively evil planes and monsters and necromancy is tied to those things. But in a game where the first rule is that you can remake the rules however you see fit, the default setting on something doesn't carry as much weight as it might in a video game or something.
Yes. If you change the default settings so that necromancy is no longer tied to something intrinsically “evil” like negative energy, it loses some of its evil qualities. But at the same time I wouldn’t want my soul trapped in my animated rotting corpse either. You get what I’m saying?
If you change the default settings so that necromancy is no longer tied to something intrinsically “evil” like negative energy, it loses some of its evil qualities. But at the same time I wouldn’t want my soul trapped in my animated rotting corpse either. You get what I’m saying?
unless l am wrong,nothing says your soul is rebound to your body with necromancy spells (except things like clone or soul jar,whos whole point is doing stuff with souls)
If you change the default settings so that necromancy is no longer tied to something intrinsically “evil” like negative energy, it loses some of its evil qualities. But at the same time I wouldn’t want my soul trapped in my animated rotting corpse either. You get what I’m saying?
unless l am wrong,nothing says your soul is rebound to your body with necromancy spells (except things like clone or soul jar,whos whole point is doing stuff with souls)
Nothing says it isn't either. DM's decision how to explain it being evil or whether all forms are evil.
@DnDNewper @IAmSposta I agree with both of you guys. If I was a DM I would consider use of necromancy by a good character a violation of alignment (assuming I used alignment at all) except in truly extraordinary circumstances. But another DM could do the exact opposite and I would totally not have a problem with that.
@DnDNewper @IAmSposta I agree with both of you guys. If I was a DM I would consider use of necromancy by a good character a violation of alignment (assuming I used alignment at all) except in truly extraordinary circumstances. But another DM could do the exact opposite and I would totally not have a problem with that.
Is that all necromancy, or just the animating dead stuff? Because it seems rather harsh to condemn someone for using False Life, Ray of Enfeeblement, or Chill Touch. And as for Ray of Sickness, I think mockery is more in order than condemnation.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Egoism means excessive selfishness?
Butcher fan by chance?
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Sounds like it.
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You'd better believe it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
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Jim Butcher is pretty cool. Not to derail the thread, but when is Peace Talks coming out?
Never. We will wait forever.
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Thanks 😢
Next week, according to Amazon.
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Following this logic to its conclusion would call for basically the dismantling of modern society. Electricity can be used to electrocute people. Fire can burn people, so that's out too. Trees could be chopped down and fashioned into weapons that kill people, so they've got to go.
Basically since people have the capacity for evil, anything can be used for evil. Divination can be used to find your assassination target or violate someone's inner thoughts just as thoroughly as Enchantment does. Abjuration can be used to deny care to a critically wounded enemy or lock someone in a closet to starve or to hide your kidnapping victim from rescuers.
I think the answer has already been stated here. Necromancy is evil by default in 5e because the default universe is one with objectively evil planes and monsters and necromancy is tied to those things. But in a game where the first rule is that you can remake the rules however you see fit, the default setting on something doesn't carry as much weight as it might in a video game or something.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
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Yes. If you change the default settings so that necromancy is no longer tied to something intrinsically “evil” like negative energy, it loses some of its evil qualities. But at the same time I wouldn’t want my soul trapped in my animated rotting corpse either. You get what I’m saying?
unless l am wrong,nothing says your soul is rebound to your body with necromancy spells (except things like clone or soul jar,whos whole point is doing stuff with souls)
@Kotath so I guess what you’re saying is that the ethical issues involving necromancy are up to the individual DM’s worldview. Yeah, that makes sense.
agreed!
Isn’t pretty much everything up to the individual DM’s worldview? I mean, it is their world after all.
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@DnDNewper @IAmSposta I agree with both of you guys. If I was a DM I would consider use of necromancy by a good character a violation of alignment (assuming I used alignment at all) except in truly extraordinary circumstances. But another DM could do the exact opposite and I would totally not have a problem with that.
Is that all necromancy, or just the animating dead stuff? Because it seems rather harsh to condemn someone for using False Life, Ray of Enfeeblement, or Chill Touch. And as for Ray of Sickness, I think mockery is more in order than condemnation.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
@6thLyranGuard just the animate dead stuff