On the topic of the lineage system, I stumbled upon a book in the DMs Guild roughly, "An Elf and an Orc had a Baby". I haven't bought the book.
Considering the customization of Pathfinder 2e and the highest rated books in the DMs Guild about race. What are the elements you want for lineage?
For the balance concerns, the solution is to separate biological from cultural traits. (IE. Generally women can't lift as much as Men (biological) vs Men=Military; Women=Domestic (cultural) controversial example but you get the point)
I posted this in another thread...
...you have three points you can add to whatever you want, max 2 to any one ability and this is probably what we are going to see. Even further, it sounds like they might classify or assign points to everything assigned to race, options like dark vision, powerful build, having a d4 unarmed strike may all be categorized in some way that allows you to select a certain number of them. If they are categorized, you can select one option from each, of they have points, just like stats you can select only as many as you can afford. There is far less detail about that, but I think we are also going to see something like that and I for one am all for it.
Why would some members of the same species have dark vision and others not? d4 bonus to unarmed usually has something to do with a biological feature like claws, why would a lizardfolk not have claws and teeth but a dwarf would?
"Why would some members of the same species have dark vision and others not?" is kind of the fantasy equivalent of why do some people need glasses in real life when others don't, "d4 bonus to unarmed" sometimes is tied to claws or a bite, so what, the option can be "Your unarmored strikes do 1d4 damage." - flavor it however you like. As to "a lizardfolk not have claws and teeth", swapping that option out would not be declawing them, it just means they are no more effective at using them that a human who punches you.
Besides the legacy system denoted above the also have this tidbit about the Class variants:
No other Unearthed Arcana published for fifth edition has been as popular as the one we created for Class Feature Variants. It was so positive, in fact, that most of those options have made it into the book. Some of that material has been refined in a variety of ways, but it’s all going to be recognizable. On top of that, Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything includes some additional options that were designed since that Unearthed Arcana was published. I think there are going to be some really delightful surprises. This book also contains a new version of the blade singer from the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide.”
So there will be other options that we will see for the class variants so that is cool. Plus a new version of the bladesinger class. There are other good things in there as well.
Interesting that they're willing to roll out a whole new version of a previously published subclass when they were unwilling to do so with the Ranger (though I guess the class feature variants fixed the Ranger pretty well).
At this point, with the reintroduction of bladesinger, they have already pretty much taken out anything worthwhile from SCAG and i doubt we will see a reintorduction of anything else from that ever again.
Although it’s interesting to me how they refuse to release any new book that reference anything from a non core book, and at the same time wont fix stuff like undying warlock. Make it make sense
At this point, with the reintroduction of bladesinger, they have already pretty much taken out anything worthwhile from SCAG and i doubt we will see a reintorduction of anything else from that ever again.
Although it’s interesting to me how they refuse to release any new book that reference anything from a non core book, and at the same time wont fix stuff like undying warlock. Make it make sense
Interesting that they're willing to roll out a whole new version of a previously published subclass when they were unwilling to do so with the Ranger (though I guess the class feature variants fixed the Ranger pretty well).
I'm pretty sure the changes to Bladesinger are just little tweaks, like removing the Elf-only restriction, where as the Ranger class as a whole pretty much needs to be started over from scratch. Even the most functional ranger is effectively ignoring half its base class features.
I would like to see some tweaks to the Bladesinger. A lot of their abilities are really useful, but some are less (performance skill, extra attack, spell slots to get rid of damage). It could use some revisions.
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Fairly sure Wizards isn't going to open that barrel of monkeys, considering they've specifically said they refuse to work on "fixing" subclasses with variant subclass features. The bladesinger will be "updated" the same way the artificer will - it'll lose the Elf Only tag and have its language updated to divorce it from the Forgotten Realms, but mechanically it'll be identical to the SCAG version. Which sucks because it's blatantly overtuned and the 'Elf Only' restriction was about the only thing even marginally keeping it in check.
I’ve only made it to level 5 with a bladesinger so I haven’t really seen any issues with it. It’s fun, but I need to work with it more to see what you’re seeing.
I’ve only made it to level 5 with a bladesinger so I haven’t really seen any issues with it. It’s fun, but I need to work with it more to see what you’re seeing.
Up until level 5, there are basically no issues with the subclass. You have an amazing AC, are great with concentrating, have some other minor benefits, and Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade allow for you to do quite a bit of damage in melee combat.
Then, you get to level 6. You get Extra Attack, at this point you have to choose between casting a cantrip (BB, GFB) as an action or attacking twice as an action.
Then, the level 10 ability sucks. It's a reaction to get rid of damage by expending spell slots, which you most likely have already used for shield, so it's mostly useless, and sucks.
Also, I do agree with Yurei, real changes to fix these problems are not likely because WotC hates fixing subclasses (even though they are fixing the Beast Master a bit), so these are most likely not going to happen.
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At this point, with the reintroduction of bladesinger, they have already pretty much taken out anything worthwhile from SCAG and i doubt we will see a reintorduction of anything else from that ever again.
Ha! My ghostwise halfling and my halfelf sun variant objects!!!
Bladesingers get to add their Intelligence modifier to actually factually everything they do. I've seen people get Bladesinger AC, with their Bladesong up, north of 35. They get to add their Intelligence to concentration checks, they get to add it to damage rolls, they get to add it to cooking rolls, seduction rolls, flatulence rolls, Strength rolls, even rolls they make while playing in a completely different system.
Your Bladesinger can add its Intelligence modifier to the roll your buddy playing Shadowrun three tables down at the convention makes to keep control of their Mitsubishi cyberbike during a thunderstorm shoot-out on the highways.
Bladesingers can add their Intelligence modifier to the Size Modifier system nobody uses to semi-randomly determine their height and weight, making themselves five inches taller. They can add their Intelligence modifier to your Size Modifier and make your character five pounds heavier. A high enough level Bladesinger can add their Intelligence modifier to your IRL Size Modifier and make you five pounds heavier.
Bladesingers can add their Intelligence modifier to someone rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest to generate stats at character creation.
A high-level Bladesinger can add their Intelligence modifier to their own rolls of 4d6-drop-the-lowest, retroactively boosting their own at-birth native stats by +5 THROUGH SPACE AND TIME ITSELF.
A high enough level Bladesinger can reach beyond the game itself and add its Intelligence modifier to the actions of the player playing it, the character reversing the continuum of tabletop play and Assuming Direct Control of their player through the sheer power of adding +5 to every roll they have ever, or will ever, make.
It's said that the highest levels of Bladesingers can add their Intelligence modifier to their Intelligence modifier, bootstrapping their Intelligence modifier higher and higher and higher until they achieve a state of intellectual enlightenment that allows them to ascend, Akira-like, to a higher plane of mental existence in which they can watch over humanity - actual humanity, not D&D humanity - as a silent, invincible guardian in the infinite black of the starry skies overhead.
...needless to say, War Magic wizards are just a twitch jealous. As is every other character in D&D, really.
Bladesingers get to add their Intelligence modifier to actually factually everything they do. I've seen people get Bladesinger AC, with their Bladesong up, north of 35. They get to add their Intelligence to concentration checks, they get to add it to damage rolls, they get to add it to cooking rolls, seduction* rolls, flatulence* rolls, Strength rolls, even rolls they make while playing in a completely different system.
*Disclaimer: To be clear, those aren’t really a thing. Funny as all get out, but not a real thing.
Bladesingers get to add their Intelligence modifier to actually factually everything they do. I've seen people get Bladesinger AC, with their Bladesong up, north of 35. They get to add their Intelligence to concentration checks, they get to add it to damage rolls, they get to add it to cooking rolls, seduction* rolls, flatulence* rolls, Strength rolls, even rolls they make while playing in a completely different system.
*Disclaimer: To be clear, those aren’t really a thing. Funny as all get out, but not a real thing.
Bladesingers get to add their Intelligence modifier to actually factually everything they do. I've seen people get Bladesinger AC, with their Bladesong up, north of 35. They get to add their Intelligence to concentration checks, they get to add it to damage rolls, they get to add it to cooking rolls, seduction* rolls, flatulence* rolls, Strength rolls, even rolls they make while playing in a completely different system.
*Disclaimer: To be clear, those aren’t really a thing. Funny as all get out, but not a real thing.
Fixed it for you.
That's where you draw the line?
Yeah, why? The rest is all true. Even the Shadowrun part, I checked.
...nah, that's a fair shake. My bad. let my comedy bone and my actually-legitimate mad-on for the Bladesinger get the better of me.
In short: the Bladesinger is a colossal munchkin trap. On its own, played as intended, it's fine. It's when jackasses start NumberWarrioring and pursuing literal invulnerability using the Bladesinger as a base that I get irritated. And unfortunately the Bladesinger is extremely prone to munchkin abuse.
...nah, that's a fair shake. My bad. let my comedy bone and my actually-legitimate mad-on for the Bladesinger get the better of me.
In short: the Bladesinger is a colossal munchkin trap. On its own, played as intended, it's fine. It's when jackasses start NumberWarrioring and pursuing literal invulnerability using the Bladesinger as a base that I get irritated. And unfortunately the Bladesinger is extremely prone to munchkin abuse.
And that's exactly why they need fixing.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
"Why would some members of the same species have dark vision and others not?" is kind of the fantasy equivalent of why do some people need glasses in real life when others don't, "d4 bonus to unarmed" sometimes is tied to claws or a bite, so what, the option can be "Your unarmored strikes do 1d4 damage." - flavor it however you like. As to "a lizardfolk not have claws and teeth", swapping that option out would not be declawing them, it just means they are no more effective at using them that a human who punches you.
Interesting that they're willing to roll out a whole new version of a previously published subclass when they were unwilling to do so with the Ranger (though I guess the class feature variants fixed the Ranger pretty well).
Strange that there is still no mention at all of this announcement on the main page of dnd beyond?
There are some other subclasses that could use a new version
*cough cough Undying and Way of the Four Elements cough cough*
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
At this point, with the reintroduction of bladesinger, they have already pretty much taken out anything worthwhile from SCAG and i doubt we will see a reintorduction of anything else from that ever again.
Although it’s interesting to me how they refuse to release any new book that reference anything from a non core book, and at the same time wont fix stuff like undying warlock. Make it make sense
Agreed.
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I'm pretty sure the changes to Bladesinger are just little tweaks, like removing the Elf-only restriction, where as the Ranger class as a whole pretty much needs to be started over from scratch. Even the most functional ranger is effectively ignoring half its base class features.
I would like to see some tweaks to the Bladesinger. A lot of their abilities are really useful, but some are less (performance skill, extra attack, spell slots to get rid of damage). It could use some revisions.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Fairly sure Wizards isn't going to open that barrel of monkeys, considering they've specifically said they refuse to work on "fixing" subclasses with variant subclass features. The bladesinger will be "updated" the same way the artificer will - it'll lose the Elf Only tag and have its language updated to divorce it from the Forgotten Realms, but mechanically it'll be identical to the SCAG version. Which sucks because it's blatantly overtuned and the 'Elf Only' restriction was about the only thing even marginally keeping it in check.
Please do not contact or message me.
I’ve only made it to level 5 with a bladesinger so I haven’t really seen any issues with it. It’s fun, but I need to work with it more to see what you’re seeing.
Up until level 5, there are basically no issues with the subclass. You have an amazing AC, are great with concentrating, have some other minor benefits, and Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade allow for you to do quite a bit of damage in melee combat.
Then, you get to level 6. You get Extra Attack, at this point you have to choose between casting a cantrip (BB, GFB) as an action or attacking twice as an action.
Then, the level 10 ability sucks. It's a reaction to get rid of damage by expending spell slots, which you most likely have already used for shield, so it's mostly useless, and sucks.
Also, I do agree with Yurei, real changes to fix these problems are not likely because WotC hates fixing subclasses (even though they are fixing the Beast Master a bit), so these are most likely not going to happen.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Ha! My ghostwise halfling and my halfelf sun variant objects!!!
But not too much.
Bladesingers get to add their Intelligence modifier to actually factually everything they do. I've seen people get Bladesinger AC, with their Bladesong up, north of 35. They get to add their Intelligence to concentration checks, they get to add it to damage rolls, they get to add it to cooking rolls, seduction rolls, flatulence rolls, Strength rolls, even rolls they make while playing in a completely different system.
Your Bladesinger can add its Intelligence modifier to the roll your buddy playing Shadowrun three tables down at the convention makes to keep control of their Mitsubishi cyberbike during a thunderstorm shoot-out on the highways.
Bladesingers can add their Intelligence modifier to the Size Modifier system nobody uses to semi-randomly determine their height and weight, making themselves five inches taller. They can add their Intelligence modifier to your Size Modifier and make your character five pounds heavier. A high enough level Bladesinger can add their Intelligence modifier to your IRL Size Modifier and make you five pounds heavier.
Bladesingers can add their Intelligence modifier to someone rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest to generate stats at character creation.
A high-level Bladesinger can add their Intelligence modifier to their own rolls of 4d6-drop-the-lowest, retroactively boosting their own at-birth native stats by +5 THROUGH SPACE AND TIME ITSELF.
A high enough level Bladesinger can reach beyond the game itself and add its Intelligence modifier to the actions of the player playing it, the character reversing the continuum of tabletop play and Assuming Direct Control of their player through the sheer power of adding +5 to every roll they have ever, or will ever, make.
It's said that the highest levels of Bladesingers can add their Intelligence modifier to their Intelligence modifier, bootstrapping their Intelligence modifier higher and higher and higher until they achieve a state of intellectual enlightenment that allows them to ascend, Akira-like, to a higher plane of mental existence in which they can watch over humanity - actual humanity, not D&D humanity - as a silent, invincible guardian in the infinite black of the starry skies overhead.
...needless to say, War Magic wizards are just a twitch jealous. As is every other character in D&D, really.
Please do not contact or message me.
Fixed it for you.
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That's where you draw the line?
Actually there are huge debates about “seduction” rolls and people get the wrong impressions.
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Yeah, why? The rest is all true. Even the Shadowrun part, I checked.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
...nah, that's a fair shake. My bad. let my comedy bone and my actually-legitimate mad-on for the Bladesinger get the better of me.
In short: the Bladesinger is a colossal munchkin trap. On its own, played as intended, it's fine. It's when jackasses start NumberWarrioring and pursuing literal invulnerability using the Bladesinger as a base that I get irritated. And unfortunately the Bladesinger is extremely prone to munchkin abuse.
Please do not contact or message me.
I actually like the Bladesinger. The weaker abilities balance out the crazy ones.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
And that's exactly why they need fixing.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms