I've kind of borrowed the trope name "Guest Star Party Member" to describe any DMPCs I ever run with my players. Usually it's just an excuse for me to try out a particular build that I don't really have anywhere else to use them, and they're always introduced with the intent to follow the players only for one specific scenario and then move on with their own adventures. Honestly, the hardest part is getting rid of them once the adventure is over... the players often seem to clearly want to keep adventuring with this guy, but I'm having enough trouble keeping track of all the other NPCs... I don't need to track a whole other character sheet constantly.
So you’re one of those “Hey players! Look at my godly cool and extra awesome sauce DMPC, you people are just here to kiss his butt and like it as he does all the quests for you dorks!” Kind of DM?
No, I'm not. My characters do all of the quests them selfs but the story of my campaign requires a fully fleshed out DMPC.
If you say so. I’d caution against having the DMPC steal the spotlight from the players is all. Very easy to do. The key is to make sure that the players like the DMPC. That they want them in their story. Sorry if I came off as overly facetious.
So you’re one of those “Hey players! Look at my godly cool and extra awesome sauce DMPC, you people are just here to kiss his butt and like it as he does all the quests for you dorks!” Kind of DM?
No, I'm not. My characters do all of the quests them selfs but the story of my campaign requires a fully fleshed out DMPC.
If you say so. I’d caution against having the DMPC steal the spotlight from the players is all. Very easy to do. The key is to make sure that the players like the DMPC. That they want them in their story. Sorry if I came off as overly facetious.
I try to never steal the spotlight from my players but I play with my family and one of my brothers doesn't play usually but sometimes does so I always have to have a DMPC with my party so my brother can join in if he wants. This is that character https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/95360648/mku1Rq
No problem about what you first said.
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Hi! Im Raven, im bi, trans and genderfae! I use she/her pronouns. I have ADHD, Dyslexia, PTSD and I've had complex PTSD since I was 1. I like making dice using Resin, i have a sub 20s 3x3 solve time. -Extended sig-
Architect of Cosmic Tapestries! Title given by Drum.
I have had a DMPC before. The players had rescued a little orphan NPC and the party had grown quite attached to her over the weeks she was with them. There was nowhere to really leave her at the time and by the time they had options, they insisted on keeping her. In fact, I had a little out of game conversation about that and how DMPC are not usually a good idea and how I have been in games where this had negative outcomes with the DM favoring the DMPC (as David42 described) but they insisted, literally insisted, on keeping her under their care. NPC hat becomes DMPC hat. 🤷
It isn't hard to keep her from outshining the party though. Each one has stats totaling in the high 80s or low 90s (hero rolls: 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the lowest) and they each had a special artifact item that would level with them and provide them with incredible power. The DMPC has no artifact, is standard array, and frankly a sidekick statblock would get annihilated with what I throw at this table of min/maxers, so it was not a good option for this game and would only serve to torture the players for keeping an NPC around that they loved.
See, this is how you do it!!!
Thank you. I might be fortunate in seeing how a DMPC can go wrong. The game I was a player in, the DM had a DMPC made that was objectively the most powerful build in the team. We didn't even need one. We were a full party and well-balanced. He just wanted to play and gave us a random person to take with us. Rolled stats until he liked what he got, made a wizard, gave them all the primo spells, and solved problems for us when we took too long to untie a knot ourselves. So I guess I know all the things not to do lol. I approach my DMPC very carefully, making them useful but not overly so. More like just useful enough to not be a burden and support the players.
I have had a DMPC before. The players had rescued a little orphan NPC and the party had grown quite attached to her over the weeks she was with them. There was nowhere to really leave her at the time and by the time they had options, they insisted on keeping her. In fact, I had a little out of game conversation about that and how DMPC are not usually a good idea and how I have been in games where this had negative outcomes with the DM favoring the DMPC (as David42 described) but they insisted, literally insisted, on keeping her under their care. NPC hat becomes DMPC hat. 🤷
It isn't hard to keep her from outshining the party though. Each one has stats totaling in the high 80s or low 90s (hero rolls: 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the lowest) and they each had a special artifact item that would level with them and provide them with incredible power. The DMPC has no artifact, is standard array, and frankly a sidekick statblock would get annihilated with what I throw at this table of min/maxers, so it was not a good option for this game and would only serve to torture the players for keeping an NPC around that they loved.
See, this is how you do it!!!
Thank you. I might be fortunate in seeing how a DMPC can go wrong. The game I had played in, the DM had a DMPC made that was objectively the most powerful build in the team. We didn't even need one. We were a full party and well-balanced. He just wanted to play and gave us a random person to take with us. Rolled stats until he liked what he got, made a wizard, gave them all the primo spells, and solved problems for us when we took too long to untie a knot ourselves. So I guess I know all the things not to do lol.
No problem m8!
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I am sorry did not realize it was set to private you should be able to view it now. it is not super impressive he is not all powerful it wasll in the betrayal and how it affected the entire party as they all considered him an ally.
I have a simple rule: NPC's - DMPC's included - never carry any real weight. Quite simply put, the PC's are the heroes, the main characters of the story, they get all the spotlight, all the time, and NPC's of all kinds are only supporting cast. And then, very occasionally, when the PC's have somehow managed to miss every hint I tossed at them - then maybe an NPC has a few vials of acid to throw when nothing the PC's do is working right. But that was one time.
On the other hand, PC's don't get to avoid doing the heavy lifting. No hiring a bunch of NPC's to fight for you. That's not how hero-ing works.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well it depends on campaings and tables, but I have as a player played with a lot of NPCs who started or ended as DMPCs.... only once it got actually "out of hand" with one sorecer dmpc that got a lot of story spotlight (background story spotlight, pretty well done as the evolution of the npc) in a shackled city campaing (then again that dm makes your fear goblins and kobolds at any lvl so having extra help from time to time is fine...)... my second pc in that campaing (first one died, an was already playing the other for a while when resurrection became possible) ended also as an NPC for fthe dm to use, becuase i had to move from the country and online play wasn't as good as it is now (wizard with all the knowledge skills, and a big mage tower/college/library so the party always came back for identifies and researchs at least).
In another campaing, the DM did made a dmpc with a lot of power but outside of combat it was mostly a support character on the same lvl as the pcs (give or take a lucky deck of many things draw that made exp be different across the board, but it was a high fantasy homebrew campaing).
In the end is very table dependant, and the most important part is that those dmpcs dont overshadow the players.
Mine is standard pc power i'm undecided if he will be the BBEG yet but he often says things like should we do anything with the hole? or what would you say we do with desk in order to point my new player towards a more eventful game(assuming skill checks pass) but when asked shouldd we do x y z often he says "your call"etc so the player can make his own choices
Reasons to be BBEG he's a halfling wizard and our rouge killed a scared halfling commoner so revenge(tbf in charicter for a rouge yeah very much chaotic nuetruel too as it wasnt done for any reason nut his own anger and fear)
Reasons to not go BBEG he learns to trust the rouge and find a trustworthy ally
I DM for a group of other DMs. They are PCs most of the time but a few times a year we trade out DMing so my NPC (the party's paladin) becomes my PC when one of them DMs a one shot. Then their PC becomes the party NPC for that.
Imma need someone to explain the difference between a "DMPC" and an NPC.
Kids these days...
A DMPC is just another name for an NPC that is basically a party member but gets played by the DM, often for countless adventures or the whole campaign.
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Hey Ret, how ya been? We haven't talked in a minute. So, a couple things, your DMPC is really OP, is this a lvl 20 campaign? Also DMPCs, while I would never use one, should always be at least a bit weaker than the party. Your party is the most important part of the game and story. You are the world, the villain, the townsfolk, the players are the focus, don't enter that part, that's for them. You can still have fun, but remember that they are the story, you're the storyteller, don't overstep your bounds.
No, my players are level 6. I mostly use the my DMPC when I want to try to nuge my players in the right way without rail roading them, like if they kill a goblin who was going to tell them an important plot point. Also my DMPC is a world renowned blacksmith that the players buy stuff from all the time. my DMPC is a friend of one of my players that the character has forgotten about because all my party has lost their memory from before 25 years ago and my DMPC does have all of his memories and has not told the party.
I don't really bother statting out an NPC when it's this much stronger than the party or anything they'll be facing any time soon. If it needs to fight, it just wins. Making the party sit through your can't-fail rolls is just a waste of precious session time.
Hey Ret, how ya been? We haven't talked in a minute. So, a couple things, your DMPC is really OP, is this a lvl 20 campaign? Also DMPCs, while I would never use one, should always be at least a bit weaker than the party. Your party is the most important part of the game and story. You are the world, the villain, the townsfolk, the players are the focus, don't enter that part, that's for them. You can still have fun, but remember that they are the story, you're the storyteller, don't overstep your bounds.
No, my players are level 6. I mostly use the my DMPC when I want to try to nuge my players in the right way without rail roading them, like if they kill a goblin who was going to tell them an important plot point. Also my DMPC is a world renowned blacksmith that the players buy stuff from all the time. my DMPC is a friend of one of my players that the character has forgotten about because all my party has lost their memory from before 25 years ago and my DMPC does have all of his memories and has not told the party.
That's an NPC, that's just a really important NPC.
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The Goddess of the Strings (thanks for the title Drummer!)
My dmpc does also give sutle hits but he helps in combat he does skill checks and saving rolls he fights i use a dmpc as a way to avoid a 1 on 1 game soon enough i'm letting my player take a 2nd pc but once he ffully understands the rules and once he's lvld up so he can easily manage 2 sheets but i'll still keep my dmpc but over time he will transisition to npc and depehow the story is going perhaps his allignment may change so hes the BBEG
Imma need someone to explain the difference between a "DMPC" and an NPC.
Kids these days...
An NPC uses a monster stat block, while a DMPC is a full blown player character with actual class levels and a character sheet, that is fully controlled by the DM.
You rally only use that kind of npc for travelling with the party constantly. The main advantage of using a class stat block for an npc is that it is easier to make it dynamic and grow along side the party particularly on a level by level basis. You don't need to run a player stat block to have a growing npc when they are appearing at specific points for example the rivals in call of the nether deep. Using player classes also doesn't add much mechanically, often you can get more interesting mechanical design by abandoning the limitations of the classes. There is no value in using a class stat block for a static character and doing so will often just bloat your notes.
I have had a DMPC before. The players had rescued a little orphan NPC and the party had grown quite attached to her over the weeks she was with them. There was nowhere to really leave her at the time and by the time they had options, they insisted on keeping her. In fact, I had a little out of game conversation about that and how DMPC are not usually a good idea and how I have been in games where this had negative outcomes with the DM favoring the DMPC (as David42 described) but they insisted, literally insisted, on keeping her under their care. NPC hat becomes DMPC hat. 🤷
It isn't hard to keep her from outshining the party though. Each one has stats totaling in the high 80s or low 90s (hero rolls: 4d6, reroll 1s, drop the lowest) and they each had a special artifact item that would level with them and provide them with incredible power. The DMPC has no artifact, is standard array, and frankly a sidekick statblock would get annihilated with what I throw at this table of min/maxers, so it was not a good option for this game and would only serve to torture the players for keeping an NPC around that they loved.
See, this is how you do it!!!
Thank you. I might be fortunate in seeing how a DMPC can go wrong. The game I was a player in, the DM had a DMPC made that was objectively the most powerful build in the team. We didn't even need one. We were a full party and well-balanced. He just wanted to play and gave us a random person to take with us. Rolled stats until he liked what he got, made a wizard, gave them all the primo spells, and solved problems for us when we took too long to untie a knot ourselves. So I guess I know all the things not to do lol. I approach my DMPC very carefully, making them useful but not overly so. More like just useful enough to not be a burden and support the players.
Yeah, you have to be careful with spell choice. You really need to avoid the show stoppers like wall of force and instead go for things that players may not pick. bane for example is a good spell but is rarely picked because bless is more automatic, it also improves players strategies making it great for an npc ally. An npc using this spell is unlikely to step on players toes and players will likely be thankful for it.
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I've kind of borrowed the trope name "Guest Star Party Member" to describe any DMPCs I ever run with my players. Usually it's just an excuse for me to try out a particular build that I don't really have anywhere else to use them, and they're always introduced with the intent to follow the players only for one specific scenario and then move on with their own adventures. Honestly, the hardest part is getting rid of them once the adventure is over... the players often seem to clearly want to keep adventuring with this guy, but I'm having enough trouble keeping track of all the other NPCs... I don't need to track a whole other character sheet constantly.
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If you say so. I’d caution against having the DMPC steal the spotlight from the players is all. Very easy to do. The key is to make sure that the players like the DMPC. That they want them in their story. Sorry if I came off as overly facetious.
I try to never steal the spotlight from my players but I play with my family and one of my brothers doesn't play usually but sometimes does so I always have to have a DMPC with my party so my brother can join in if he wants. This is that character https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/95360648/mku1Rq
No problem about what you first said.
Hi! Im Raven, im bi, trans and genderfae! I use she/her pronouns. I have ADHD, Dyslexia, PTSD and I've had complex PTSD since I was 1. I like making dice using Resin, i have a sub 20s 3x3 solve time.
-Extended sig-
Architect of Cosmic Tapestries! Title given by Drum.
Thank you. I might be fortunate in seeing how a DMPC can go wrong. The game I was a player in, the DM had a DMPC made that was objectively the most powerful build in the team. We didn't even need one. We were a full party and well-balanced. He just wanted to play and gave us a random person to take with us. Rolled stats until he liked what he got, made a wizard, gave them all the primo spells, and solved problems for us when we took too long to untie a knot ourselves. So I guess I know all the things not to do lol. I approach my DMPC very carefully, making them useful but not overly so. More like just useful enough to not be a burden and support the players.
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No problem m8!
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She/They pronouns
The Goddess of the Strings (thanks for the title Drummer!)
I am sorry did not realize it was set to private you should be able to view it now. it is not super impressive he is not all powerful it wasll in the betrayal and how it affected the entire party as they all considered him an ally.
Just published a map on DriveThruRPG The Forgotten Temple
I have a simple rule: NPC's - DMPC's included - never carry any real weight. Quite simply put, the PC's are the heroes, the main characters of the story, they get all the spotlight, all the time, and NPC's of all kinds are only supporting cast. And then, very occasionally, when the PC's have somehow managed to miss every hint I tossed at them - then maybe an NPC has a few vials of acid to throw when nothing the PC's do is working right. But that was one time.
On the other hand, PC's don't get to avoid doing the heavy lifting. No hiring a bunch of NPC's to fight for you. That's not how hero-ing works.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well it depends on campaings and tables, but I have as a player played with a lot of NPCs who started or ended as DMPCs.... only once it got actually "out of hand" with one sorecer dmpc that got a lot of story spotlight (background story spotlight, pretty well done as the evolution of the npc) in a shackled city campaing (then again that dm makes your fear goblins and kobolds at any lvl so having extra help from time to time is fine...)... my second pc in that campaing (first one died, an was already playing the other for a while when resurrection became possible) ended also as an NPC for fthe dm to use, becuase i had to move from the country and online play wasn't as good as it is now (wizard with all the knowledge skills, and a big mage tower/college/library so the party always came back for identifies and researchs at least).
In another campaing, the DM did made a dmpc with a lot of power but outside of combat it was mostly a support character on the same lvl as the pcs (give or take a lucky deck of many things draw that made exp be different across the board, but it was a high fantasy homebrew campaing).
In the end is very table dependant, and the most important part is that those dmpcs dont overshadow the players.
Mine is standard pc power i'm undecided if he will be the BBEG yet but he often says things like should we do anything with the hole? or what would you say we do with desk in order to point my new player towards a more eventful game(assuming skill checks pass) but when asked shouldd we do x y z often he says "your call"etc so the player can make his own choices
Reasons to be BBEG he's a halfling wizard and our rouge killed a scared halfling commoner so revenge(tbf in charicter for a rouge yeah very much chaotic nuetruel too as it wasnt done for any reason nut his own anger and fear)
Reasons to not go BBEG he learns to trust the rouge and find a trustworthy ally
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
I DM for a group of other DMs. They are PCs most of the time but a few times a year we trade out DMing so my NPC (the party's paladin) becomes my PC when one of them DMs a one shot. Then their PC becomes the party NPC for that.
A DMPC is just another name for an NPC that is basically a party member but gets played by the DM, often for countless adventures or the whole campaign.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I don't really bother statting out an NPC when it's this much stronger than the party or anything they'll be facing any time soon. If it needs to fight, it just wins. Making the party sit through your can't-fail rolls is just a waste of precious session time.
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That's an NPC, that's just a really important NPC.
Your friendly trans bard!
She/They pronouns
The Goddess of the Strings (thanks for the title Drummer!)
My dmpc does also give sutle hits but he helps in combat he does skill checks and saving rolls he fights i use a dmpc as a way to avoid a 1 on 1 game soon enough i'm letting my player take a 2nd pc but once he ffully understands the rules and once he's lvld up so he can easily manage 2 sheets but i'll still keep my dmpc but over time he will transisition to npc and depehow the story is going perhaps his allignment may change so hes the BBEG
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
You rally only use that kind of npc for travelling with the party constantly. The main advantage of using a class stat block for an npc is that it is easier to make it dynamic and grow along side the party particularly on a level by level basis. You don't need to run a player stat block to have a growing npc when they are appearing at specific points for example the rivals in call of the nether deep. Using player classes also doesn't add much mechanically, often you can get more interesting mechanical design by abandoning the limitations of the classes. There is no value in using a class stat block for a static character and doing so will often just bloat your notes.
Yeah, you have to be careful with spell choice. You really need to avoid the show stoppers like wall of force and instead go for things that players may not pick. bane for example is a good spell but is rarely picked because bless is more automatic, it also improves players strategies making it great for an npc ally. An npc using this spell is unlikely to step on players toes and players will likely be thankful for it.