Had another bunch of random thoughts while browsing...
Has anyone seen or experienced ranged forms or homebrew variations/offshoots of booming blade/green-flame blade? I don't think it would be too out there to allow those to be used with ammo, but booming blade in particular may be pretty punishing in that form.
I am also obsessed with the sources of infinite ammo and thought it may be able to fill that particular niche as well. Would it be too much to add a secondary effect on conjured ammo? Or perhaps have both an imbue and conjure form. That line of thinking sounds particularly interesting...
No, I wrote my own homebrewed ranged spells in the similar vein as BB/G-FB, because I don’t think those two are suitable for ranged use, too powerful at range.
No, I wrote my own homebrewed ranged spells in the similar vein as BB/G-FB, because I don’t think those two are suitable for ranged use, too powerful at range.
Figured as much. What sort of mechanics did you use for your variants?
The opposite effect of booming blade might be interesting - where they take extra damage if they don't move. I could see some tactical use there.
Alternately, it could affect an adjacent square that deals damage if the target moves onto it, discouraging movement in a particular direction.
I very much like that idea, but I believe that would be too similar in power to BB, particularly when you consider it would be an easy way to provoke attacks of opportunity.
continuing the idea I mentioned previously after thinking about it some more, a super rough draft:
Storm Arrow
Imbues a piece of ammunition with magic, on hit with weapon, target makes a save or be pushed back or conjure ammunition out of lightning and send it down range, dealing weapon damage as lightning.
Provides some utility with damage types and effects based on other entry level abilities. Too much? Too little? Should the damage scale?
No, I wrote my own homebrewed ranged spells in the similar vein as BB/G-FB, because I don’t think those two are suitable for ranged use, too powerful at range.
Figured as much. What sort of mechanics did you use for your variants?
A variation of G-FB’s splash damage, but different. It’s not ready to be shared yet.
The opposite effect of booming blade might be interesting - where they take extra damage if they don't move. I could see some tactical use there.
Alternately, it could affect an adjacent square that deals damage if the target moves onto it, discouraging movement in a particular direction.
I very much like that idea, but I believe that would be too similar in power to BB, particularly when you consider it would be an easy way to provoke attacks of opportunity.
Is it a bad thing that it's similar in power? That's exactly what I was going for because cantrips should be roughly equal in power, no?
The way OAs work in 5e you can typically move 5 feet without drawing one unless you're surrounded by 3 opponents (or just 2 if they diagonally positioned), so I think it would be generally easy to avoid but you could force it to happen with coordination - again, just like you can with BB.
edit - after some thought, I think I'd drop the damage to d6's just because attacking from range is much safer than hitting them in the face with BB
As for your version, I'm not sure what you mean by
or conjure ammunition out of lightning and send it down range, dealing weapon damage as lightning.
The lightning one I was thinking of may be similar to Sposta's - hit someone and potentially deal lightning damage to an adjacent target that is opposite you (like the arrow passed through them and hit a second target). So, like GFB but you need to line it up to deal the extra damage. Might still be a bit too easy though. I'd rather it pierce an enemy in front of the target, but the extra damage should only happen on a hit, so it's hard to justify how that would work.
No, I wrote my own homebrewed ranged spells in the similar vein as BB/G-FB, because I don’t think those two are suitable for ranged use, too powerful at range.
Figured as much. What sort of mechanics did you use for your variants?
A variation of G-FB’s splash damage, but different. It’s not ready to be shared yet.
The opposite effect of booming blade might be interesting - where they take extra damage if they don't move. I could see some tactical use there.
Alternately, it could affect an adjacent square that deals damage if the target moves onto it, discouraging movement in a particular direction.
I very much like that idea, but I believe that would be too similar in power to BB, particularly when you consider it would be an easy way to provoke attacks of opportunity.
Is it a bad thing that it's similar in power? That's exactly what I was going for because cantrips should be roughly equal in power, no?
The way OAs work in 5e you can typically move 5 feet without drawing one unless you're surrounded by 3 opponents (or just 2 if they diagonally positioned), so I think it would be generally easy to avoid but you could force it to happen with coordination - again, just like you can with BB.
edit - after some thought, I think I'd drop the damage to d6's just because attacking from range is much safer than hitting them in the face with BB
To a degree it is bad. They are more situational to get full potential out of them and you can expect to be punished in melee combat, but as a result they are doing 7-8 dice compared to a regular cantrip of 4 dice. I am of the opinion that the ranged variants should be more in line with regular cantrips.
Perhaps pile the damage all on the backend since it would probably be easier to get them to move rather than stay still?
As for your version, I'm not sure what you mean by
or conjure ammunition out of lightning and send it down range, dealing weapon damage as lightning.
The lightning one I was thinking of may be similar to Sposta's - hit someone and potentially deal lightning damage to an adjacent target that is opposite you (like the arrow passed through them and hit a second target). So, like GFB but you need to line it up to deal the extra damage. Might still be a bit too easy though. I'd rather it pierce an enemy in front of the target, but the extra damage should only happen on a hit, so it's hard to justify how that would work.
Yea, I did not explain that very well. My idea was to have a single cantrip have two different uses: one being mundane ammo gaining an additional effect, and the other being created ammo that deals leveled damage like a cantrip (in this case, lightning, but still using the damage die and modifiers of the weapon). Though it would probably be fine with both on one cast with an appropriate amount of damage scaling.
Continuing your idea, perhaps something like "you create and shoot a second arrow made of magical energy that hits a second target [etc]"?
The other idea I had was having a caltrops-like effect, probably with a concentration aspect. Kinda like a floating mine field or something? Basically a form of area denial. Probably dex save unless they move at half speed, with 1d4 damage on fail?
I have made some working prototypes of the ideas presented, but could not for the life of me figure out a convincing way to copy GFB. I guess I'll have to wait for Sposta's unveiling.
I did, however, have some other ideas that I could use some assistance on...
Would adding a blinding effect or distracting chaff to impose disadvantage be too powerful for a cantrip, you think? Perhaps as a leveled variant would be better? Like a ranged smite?
Would you use a "frenzy" effect? target deals a little extra damage or have advantage, but attacks against them have advantage? Like a forced Reckless Attack?
There is also the easy option of stealing the Tripping Attack maneuver, but that is rather boring.
You can do it at range - this alone is a massive boost. The major drawback of the existing AOE cantrips is that they leave you in a risky position.
It matches the AOE damage of the other cantrips, while also dealing significant damage to the original target.
On top of all this, it can push everyone it hits - the only other cantrip with a baked-in push is gust.
Even tricked-out Eldritch Blast can't do this with significantly more resources invested, and at that point it's more a class feature than a cantrip. This feel more like a leveled spell - maybe even level 2 - Bursting Strike or something. I think a balanced cantrip version might look like:
It does the initial hit damage, and if it moves adjacent creatures are subjected to the push.
It does the initial hit damage, and if it moves one adjacent creature takes the burst damage.
Had another bunch of random thoughts while browsing...
Has anyone seen or experienced ranged forms or homebrew variations/offshoots of booming blade/green-flame blade? I don't think it would be too out there to allow those to be used with ammo, but booming blade in particular may be pretty punishing in that form.
I am also obsessed with the sources of infinite ammo and thought it may be able to fill that particular niche as well. Would it be too much to add a secondary effect on conjured ammo? Or perhaps have both an imbue and conjure form. That line of thinking sounds particularly interesting...
No, I wrote my own homebrewed ranged spells in the similar vein as BB/G-FB, because I don’t think those two are suitable for ranged use, too powerful at range.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Figured as much. What sort of mechanics did you use for your variants?
The opposite effect of booming blade might be interesting - where they take extra damage if they don't move. I could see some tactical use there.
Alternately, it could affect an adjacent square that deals damage if the target moves onto it, discouraging movement in a particular direction.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I very much like that idea, but I believe that would be too similar in power to BB, particularly when you consider it would be an easy way to provoke attacks of opportunity.
continuing the idea I mentioned previously after thinking about it some more, a super rough draft:
Provides some utility with damage types and effects based on other entry level abilities. Too much? Too little? Should the damage scale?
A variation of G-FB’s splash damage, but different. It’s not ready to be shared yet.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Is it a bad thing that it's similar in power? That's exactly what I was going for because cantrips should be roughly equal in power, no?
The way OAs work in 5e you can typically move 5 feet without drawing one unless you're surrounded by 3 opponents (or just 2 if they diagonally positioned), so I think it would be generally easy to avoid but you could force it to happen with coordination - again, just like you can with BB.
edit - after some thought, I think I'd drop the damage to d6's just because attacking from range is much safer than hitting them in the face with BB
As for your version, I'm not sure what you mean by
The lightning one I was thinking of may be similar to Sposta's - hit someone and potentially deal lightning damage to an adjacent target that is opposite you (like the arrow passed through them and hit a second target). So, like GFB but you need to line it up to deal the extra damage. Might still be a bit too easy though. I'd rather it pierce an enemy in front of the target, but the extra damage should only happen on a hit, so it's hard to justify how that would work.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Gotcha. Fair enough.
To a degree it is bad. They are more situational to get full potential out of them and you can expect to be punished in melee combat, but as a result they are doing 7-8 dice compared to a regular cantrip of 4 dice. I am of the opinion that the ranged variants should be more in line with regular cantrips.
Perhaps pile the damage all on the backend since it would probably be easier to get them to move rather than stay still?
Yea, I did not explain that very well. My idea was to have a single cantrip have two different uses: one being mundane ammo gaining an additional effect, and the other being created ammo that deals leveled damage like a cantrip (in this case, lightning, but still using the damage die and modifiers of the weapon). Though it would probably be fine with both on one cast with an appropriate amount of damage scaling.
Continuing your idea, perhaps something like "you create and shoot a second arrow made of magical energy that hits a second target [etc]"?
The other idea I had was having a caltrops-like effect, probably with a concentration aspect. Kinda like a floating mine field or something? Basically a form of area denial. Probably dex save unless they move at half speed, with 1d4 damage on fail?
I have made some working prototypes of the ideas presented, but could not for the life of me figure out a convincing way to copy GFB. I guess I'll have to wait for Sposta's unveiling.
I did, however, have some other ideas that I could use some assistance on...
Would adding a blinding effect or distracting chaff to impose disadvantage be too powerful for a cantrip, you think? Perhaps as a leveled variant would be better? Like a ranged smite?
Would you use a "frenzy" effect? target deals a little extra damage or have advantage, but attacks against them have advantage? Like a forced Reckless Attack?
There is also the easy option of stealing the Tripping Attack maneuver, but that is rather boring.
Acid Shot: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1383619-acid-shot (deals extra acid damage at the start of the target's next turn)
Burst Shot: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1383626-burst-shot (deals force damage in a 5-ft. radius around the original target)
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
I gotta say, Burst shot seems way too good. Compare it to other AOE cantrips word of radiance, sword burst, and thunderclap:
Even tricked-out Eldritch Blast can't do this with significantly more resources invested, and at that point it's more a class feature than a cantrip. This feel more like a leveled spell - maybe even level 2 - Bursting Strike or something. I think a balanced cantrip version might look like:
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm