I am trying to create Wither and Bloom in my game from scratch. The DM allows us to follow 3.5 Spell crafting rules in his game and so I am able to make my own spells. His game followers Arcane Traditions, so the spell from XGE and SC are only in the Sword Coast. As we are region locked for spells, anything outside of PHB, TCE & FDT is not available.
But I can craft it from scratch.
I am trying to make Wither and Bloom, but more thematic to a chef, and maybe improve it a bit.
The flavor text of Wither and Bloom, in my opinion, is pathetic. "You invoke both death and life upon a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on a point within range."
What I am trying to make is a spell that functions almost identically to Wither and Bloom, but it uses a Charisma save.
So far I have been thinking of trying to have it CHA save as a bit of the essence of each creature goes to the one creature who is healed.
"Each creature of your choice in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on the point you choose must make a Charisma saving throw. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 necrotic damage as a part of their essence leaves their body. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage.
In addition, the essence is absorbed by one creature of your choice in that area, nourishing it. The target regains hit points equal to your spell modifier, and an addition hit point for each enemy that failed the save. A different taste appears
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the radius increases by 10 feet for each slot above the 2nd level.
My wizard is a chef, so I wanted to call this like, Character's Name Tasting Room. The issue is that my DM said my character is a Good aligned character and this seems like an Evil spell. I am friends with the DM and I see he has a point. Our game follows Alignments and so this is something I want to comply with.
He presented the idea of like, Cook Kirby, with a massive Astral Pot ? Any ideas? Open to all thoughts.
Two thoughts about the balance of your proposed mechanical changes:
Making it a Cha save instead of a Con save means that far more monsters are going to fail their saves against the spell since more monsters have better Con saves than Cha saves.
Making it heal a number of HP equal to your spellcasting mod plus the number of creature that failed their saves (as opposed to a roll of a hit die plus your spellcasting mod) means it could potentially heal fewer HP, or more HP, depending on the number of targets compared to the size of the target’s hit dice, but it does make more sense. However eliminating the restriction that they have an unspent hit die makes it a little more powerful if the table takes regular short rests, or changes nothing at all if they don’t.
Overall the second point comes out as a neutral change, but the first point is definitely an improvement over the original version of the spell.
As for your issue with the spell being “evil,” it kinda is. I mean, the original version is already kinda evil, and your version adds a pseudo-canibalistic vibe to it.
I changed it from CON to CHA for to make it not as terrible of a save, as Con is just rough.
To try and balance it, I removed the hit die and made it 1 hp restored per failed save for that very reason. It could heal more, but most likely won't.
I made the higher level casting increase radius rather than damage die as I thought that would work better with the 1 hp per fail. Increases the chances or more fails.
May change it back to a CON save though. I like the idea of CHA as it's more in line with essence and the soul.
Maybe make it a STR, it makes them weaker,
Or a Wisdom save and call it Dinner Bells.
Idk. Still trying to make it in line with cooking somehow.
Honestly making it a CHA-focused spell opens up much less evil flavor IMO. Keep in mind that HP isn't just physical damage but also encompasses things like dodging/deflecting blows and morale. Make this about breaking their will to fight rather than sucking out their souls.
I changed it from CON to CHA for to make it not as terrible of a save, as Con is just rough.
To try and balance it, I removed the hit die and made it 1 hp restored per failed save for that very reason. It could heal more, but most likely won't.
I made the higher level casting increase radius rather than damage die as I thought that would work better with the 1 hp per fail. Increases the chances or more fails.
May change it back to a CON save though. I like the idea of CHA as it's more in line with essence and the soul.
Maybe make it a STR, it makes them weaker,
Or a Wisdom save and call it Dinner Bells.
Idk. Still trying to make it in line with cooking somehow.
CHA save doesn't make sense in the context of 5e. CHA saves are for dimensional travel, and certain mental effects. Same for STR those are for pushing and proning effects not weakness effects. Weakness effects are likewise a CON save (see Ray of Enfeebleness, Enlarge/Reduce), Whereas almost all necrotic damage stuff is a CON save, so this should remain a con save, especially since it still does 1/2 damage even if the enemies succeed and the healing is a guaranteed effect.
Honestly making it a CHA-focused spell opens up much less evil flavor IMO. Keep in mind that HP isn't just physical damage but also encompasses things like dodging/deflecting blows and morale. Make this about breaking their will to fight rather than sucking out their souls.
Ooooooooohh, trueee
Calling it like Break and Bolster and writing about how you reduce their will to fight while bolstering your own allies.
That's an awesome idea.
That feels like psychic damage though.
I feel like the only other ones that would work would maybe be lightning (cause like, shocking them to reinvigorate them)
Honestly making it a CHA-focused spell opens up much less evil flavor IMO. Keep in mind that HP isn't just physical damage but also encompasses things like dodging/deflecting blows and morale. Make this about breaking their will to fight rather than sucking out their souls.
Ooooooooohh, trueee
Calling it like Break and Bolster and writing about how you reduce their will to fight while bolstering your own allies.
That's an awesome idea.
That feels like psychic damage though.
I feel like the only other ones that would work would maybe be lightning (cause like, shocking them to reinvigorate them)
Will to fight and psychic damage would be a WIS save, still not a CHA save. If you want a CHA save it would need to have some kind of extra-planar nature to it. E.g. you rip a hole to the far realms and conjure life-sucking tentacles, or you create bubble of Shadowfell-ness, or you force them into an alternate dimension...
Honestly making it a CHA-focused spell opens up much less evil flavor IMO. Keep in mind that HP isn't just physical damage but also encompasses things like dodging/deflecting blows and morale. Make this about breaking their will to fight rather than sucking out their souls.
Ooooooooohh, trueee
Calling it like Break and Bolster and writing about how you reduce their will to fight while bolstering your own allies.
That's an awesome idea.
That feels like psychic damage though.
I feel like the only other ones that would work would maybe be lightning (cause like, shocking them to reinvigorate them)
Will to fight and psychic damage would be a WIS save, still not a CHA save. If you want a CHA save it would need to have some kind of extra-planar nature to it. E.g. you rip a hole to the far realms and conjure life-sucking tentacles, or you create bubble of Shadowfell-ness, or you force them into an alternate dimension...
So I did some digging into the lore and found the Xag-ja. Extra-planar beings of pure Positive Energy that can feed on the living, or heal them. They are known as Energon's as there is also a Negative Energy counterpart. How is this?
Summon Energon / Summon Xag-ja /
You temporarily summon an incorporeal entity from the Inner plane of positive energy to feed on your foes and aid your allies. Choose a point you can see within range, each creature of your choice in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on the point must make a Charisma Saving throw as fiery tentacles made of silver energy lash out at them. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 radiant damage. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage.
In addition, one creature of your choice in that area is healed by the entity before it disappears. The target regains hit points equal to your spell modifier, and an addition hit point for each enemy that failed the save, as they are filled with some of the siphoned energy the entity collected.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the radius increases by 10 feet for each slot above the 2nd level.
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Hello everyone,
I am trying to create Wither and Bloom in my game from scratch.
The DM allows us to follow 3.5 Spell crafting rules in his game and so I am able to make my own spells.
His game followers Arcane Traditions, so the spell from XGE and SC are only in the Sword Coast.
As we are region locked for spells, anything outside of PHB, TCE & FDT is not available.
But I can craft it from scratch.
I am trying to make Wither and Bloom, but more thematic to a chef, and maybe improve it a bit.
The flavor text of Wither and Bloom, in my opinion, is pathetic.
"You invoke both death and life upon a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on a point within range."
What I am trying to make is a spell that functions almost identically to Wither and Bloom, but it uses a Charisma save.
So far I have been thinking of trying to have it CHA save as a bit of the essence of each creature goes to the one creature who is healed.
"Each creature of your choice in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on the point you choose must make a Charisma saving throw.
On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 necrotic damage as a part of their essence leaves their body. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage.
In addition, the essence is absorbed by one creature of your choice in that area, nourishing it. The target regains hit points equal to your spell modifier, and an addition hit point for each enemy that failed the save. A different taste appears
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the radius increases by 10 feet for each slot above the 2nd level.
My wizard is a chef, so I wanted to call this like,
Character's Name Tasting Room.
The issue is that my DM said my character is a Good aligned character and this seems like an Evil spell.
I am friends with the DM and I see he has a point. Our game follows Alignments and so this is something I want to comply with.
He presented the idea of like, Cook Kirby, with a massive Astral Pot ? Any ideas? Open to all thoughts.
Two thoughts about the balance of your proposed mechanical changes:
Overall the second point comes out as a neutral change, but the first point is definitely an improvement over the original version of the spell.
As for your issue with the spell being “evil,” it kinda is. I mean, the original version is already kinda evil, and your version adds a pseudo-canibalistic vibe to it.
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I appreciate the feedback on balance!
I changed it from CON to CHA for to make it not as terrible of a save, as Con is just rough.
To try and balance it, I removed the hit die and made it 1 hp restored per failed save for that very reason. It could heal more, but most likely won't.
I made the higher level casting increase radius rather than damage die as I thought that would work better with the 1 hp per fail. Increases the chances or more fails.
May change it back to a CON save though. I like the idea of CHA as it's more in line with essence and the soul.
Maybe make it a STR, it makes them weaker,
Or a Wisdom save and call it Dinner Bells.
Idk. Still trying to make it in line with cooking somehow.
Honestly making it a CHA-focused spell opens up much less evil flavor IMO. Keep in mind that HP isn't just physical damage but also encompasses things like dodging/deflecting blows and morale. Make this about breaking their will to fight rather than sucking out their souls.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
CHA save doesn't make sense in the context of 5e. CHA saves are for dimensional travel, and certain mental effects. Same for STR those are for pushing and proning effects not weakness effects. Weakness effects are likewise a CON save (see Ray of Enfeebleness, Enlarge/Reduce), Whereas almost all necrotic damage stuff is a CON save, so this should remain a con save, especially since it still does 1/2 damage even if the enemies succeed and the healing is a guaranteed effect.
Ooooooooohh, trueee
Calling it like Break and Bolster and writing about how you reduce their will to fight while bolstering your own allies.
That's an awesome idea.
That feels like psychic damage though.
I feel like the only other ones that would work would maybe be lightning (cause like, shocking them to reinvigorate them)
Will to fight and psychic damage would be a WIS save, still not a CHA save. If you want a CHA save it would need to have some kind of extra-planar nature to it. E.g. you rip a hole to the far realms and conjure life-sucking tentacles, or you create bubble of Shadowfell-ness, or you force them into an alternate dimension...
So I did some digging into the lore and found the Xag-ja. Extra-planar beings of pure Positive Energy that can feed on the living, or heal them.
They are known as Energon's as there is also a Negative Energy counterpart.
How is this?
Summon Energon / Summon Xag-ja /
You temporarily summon an incorporeal entity from the Inner plane of positive energy to feed on your foes and aid your allies.
Choose a point you can see within range, each creature of your choice in a 10-foot-radius sphere centered on the point must make a Charisma Saving throw as fiery tentacles made of silver energy lash out at them.
On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 radiant damage. On a successful save, it takes half as much damage.
In addition, one creature of your choice in that area is healed by the entity before it disappears. The target regains hit points equal to your spell modifier, and an addition hit point for each enemy that failed the save, as they are filled with some of the siphoned energy the entity collected.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the radius increases by 10 feet for each slot above the 2nd level.