If a spell allows you to choose multiple targets, like bane, can you target the same person multiple times with the same spell just to be on the safe side? Like bane:
Up to three creatures of your choice that you can see within range must make Charisma saving throws.
Can I say X and 2 times Y? Or after X makes the save name X again as second target?
Nope. You aren't distributing three different Banes, you're picking up to three creatures to be Baned.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As a general rule, things don't stack. Bane on the same target does only one thing, when you fail your save, the d4 that you get that lowers your attack roll and saving throw goes down by the number on the die. If you cast two or more of them at the same time, they only roll one save, and they only get whatever comes up on the dice as a penalty. I think. It is possible that you have them roll the die as many times as the Bane hit them, and roll again each time, take the highest number and save to see if they take that or not.
That's the way Temporary Hit Points work, and that could be a unique thing that only applies to them. Take what I say with a grain of salt. I am frequently incorrect, if not just dead wrong.
One exception for this are spells with spell attacks that allow for multiple attack rolls. Eldritch blast at level 5 can target 2 different creatures (one attack each) or 1 creature (with both attacks). magic missile cast at first level can likewise target 1 creature for all three darts, 3 creatures for one dart each, or 2 creatures (one gets 2 darts, one gets 1 dart). Those spells usually say how you can aim the attacks for that spell though.
One exception for this are spells with spell attacks that allow for multiple attack rolls. Eldritch blast at level 5 can target 2 different creatures (one attack each) or 1 creature (with both attacks). magic missile cast at first level can likewise target 1 creature for all three darts, 3 creatures for one dart each, or 2 creatures (one gets 2 darts, one gets 1 dart). Those spells usually say how you can aim the attacks for that spell though.
They aren't really exceptions since they use completely different wording than what we are answering about.
But yes, they are examples of spells that can divide their effect unevenly across targets. There is also scorching ray. Note, none are save spells.
Near as I can tell, they only have to make the save once, no matter how many Bane spells get cast on them.
Technically they would, but it would largely be irrelevant most of the time.
Say for instance you and I were teamed up and wanted to take on DxJxC for whatever reason. (By the way, if you wanna learn the rules supper well, DxJxC is the one of the best users to “follow.”) Anyway, I cast bane on Dx as a 2nd-level spell ‘cause I’m out of 1st-level slots. Dx rolls and fails the save, so now they’re Baned. (Yay us!) Say for the sake of argument that -1d4 is why they cannot land a blow on me for two rounds and I maintain concentration. (Huzzah!) Then in the third round you come along and also cast bane on Dx. Dx still has to roll their saving throw and thanks to the bane I placed on them, there was no chance they’ll save against yours. Now, the two spells obviously don’t stack, but what happens next depends on a few different things:
How long combat lasts and who wins.
If either your spell or mine ends before the full duration, and if so, who’s drops first.
How the DM defines “potency” in this case:
If by spell level, then the level at which you cast the spell becomes relevant.
If by effect, since -1d4 = -1d4 then all instances of bane are of equal potency.
If the DM determines potency by spell level, then both instances of the spell will be on Dx, but since mine is a 2nd-level spell if you cast yours as a 1st-level spell, the 2nd-level version is the one that actually affects them. If combat lasts at least 7 more rounds, my 2nd-level version would drop naturally, and stop suppressing yours, so then your Bane would start affecting Dx until it’s duration ends. If you cast yours at 2nd-level, then it would suppress mine since it was cast more recently. If you cast yours at 3rd-level or higher, then it would also suppress mine, but for a different reason, this time because your spell level is higher than mine. Whenever Dx rolls that -1d4, it would be the one from your spell, not mine.
If the DM determines potency by spell effect, then both instances of the spell will be on Dx, but your spell would suppress mine since it was cast more recently.
Okay, say for whichever reason your Bane suppresses mine. Then Dx changes tactics, whips out a wand of magic missiles, and unloads the whole 7 charges on you and you take a 7th-level magic missile, BapBapBapBapBapBapBapBapBap, 9 darts to the teeth & dangly bits. Don’t worry, Dx rolled a 1 on the d4, so each dart only does 2 damage so you are still standing. However, now you also have to make 9 concentration checks. You were rollin’ well for a while, but you do end up failing one, and you loose concentration. Your spell drops and stop suppressing mine, so then my starts affecting Dx again.
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don't combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
For example, if two clerics cast bless on the same target, that character gains the spell's benefit only once; he or she doesn't get to roll two bonus dice.
"Technically they would, but it would largely be irrelevant most of the time."
I'm certainly not going to argue with people who demonstrably have a better grasp of the rules than I have. Thanks for taking it all in such depth, I appreciate it.
"Technically they would, but it would largely be irrelevant most of the time."
I'm certainly not going to argue with people who demonstrably have a better grasp of the rules than I have. Thanks for taking it all in such depth, I appreciate it.
Hi!
If a spell allows you to choose multiple targets, like bane, can you target the same person multiple times with the same spell just to be on the safe side? Like bane:
Can I say X and 2 times Y? Or after X makes the save name X again as second target?
Nope. You aren't distributing three different Banes, you're picking up to three creatures to be Baned.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As a general rule, things don't stack. Bane on the same target does only one thing, when you fail your save, the d4 that you get that lowers your attack roll and saving throw goes down by the number on the die. If you cast two or more of them at the same time, they only roll one save, and they only get whatever comes up on the dice as a penalty. I think. It is possible that you have them roll the die as many times as the Bane hit them, and roll again each time, take the highest number and save to see if they take that or not.
That's the way Temporary Hit Points work, and that could be a unique thing that only applies to them. Take what I say with a grain of salt. I am frequently incorrect, if not just dead wrong.
<Insert clever signature here>
Thy, but the intention was not to stack, but to make sure that it sticks on the target. :-)
Near as I can tell, they only have to make the save once, no matter how many Bane spells get cast on them.
<Insert clever signature here>
Yes, it's "up to three creatures make a saving throw," not "force three saving throws from to up to three creatures".
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(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
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That isn't how targeting works either.
Up to 3 creatures make 1 save. 1 is "up to 3" and it also makes 1 save.
Can i just say that i was already convinced by the first comment? :) But thy all. :)
One exception for this are spells with spell attacks that allow for multiple attack rolls. Eldritch blast at level 5 can target 2 different creatures (one attack each) or 1 creature (with both attacks). magic missile cast at first level can likewise target 1 creature for all three darts, 3 creatures for one dart each, or 2 creatures (one gets 2 darts, one gets 1 dart). Those spells usually say how you can aim the attacks for that spell though.
They aren't really exceptions since they use completely different wording than what we are answering about.
But yes, they are examples of spells that can divide their effect unevenly across targets. There is also scorching ray. Note, none are save spells.
Technically they would, but it would largely be irrelevant most of the time.
Say for instance you and I were teamed up and wanted to take on DxJxC for whatever reason. (By the way, if you wanna learn the rules supper well, DxJxC is the one of the best users to “follow.”) Anyway, I cast bane on Dx as a 2nd-level spell ‘cause I’m out of 1st-level slots. Dx rolls and fails the save, so now they’re Baned. (Yay us!) Say for the sake of argument that -1d4 is why they cannot land a blow on me for two rounds and I maintain concentration. (Huzzah!) Then in the third round you come along and also cast bane on Dx. Dx still has to roll their saving throw and thanks to the bane I placed on them, there was no chance they’ll save against yours. Now, the two spells obviously don’t stack, but what happens next depends on a few different things:
If the DM determines potency by spell level, then both instances of the spell will be on Dx, but since mine is a 2nd-level spell if you cast yours as a 1st-level spell, the 2nd-level version is the one that actually affects them. If combat lasts at least 7 more rounds, my 2nd-level version would drop naturally, and stop suppressing yours, so then your Bane would start affecting Dx until it’s duration ends.
If you cast yours at 2nd-level, then it would suppress mine since it was cast more recently. If you cast yours at 3rd-level or higher, then it would also suppress mine, but for a different reason, this time because your spell level is higher than mine. Whenever Dx rolls that -1d4, it would be the one from your spell, not mine.
If the DM determines potency by spell effect, then both instances of the spell will be on Dx, but your spell would suppress mine since it was cast more recently.
Okay, say for whichever reason your Bane suppresses mine. Then Dx changes tactics, whips out a wand of magic missiles, and unloads the whole 7 charges on you and you take a 7th-level magic missile, BapBapBapBapBapBapBapBapBap, 9 darts to the teeth & dangly bits. Don’t worry, Dx rolled a 1 on the d4, so each dart only does 2 damage so you are still standing. However, now you also have to make 9 concentration checks. You were rollin’ well for a while, but you do end up failing one, and you loose concentration. Your spell drops and stop suppressing mine, so then my starts affecting Dx again.
Make sense?
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"Technically they would, but it would largely be irrelevant most of the time."
I'm certainly not going to argue with people who demonstrably have a better grasp of the rules than I have. Thanks for taking it all in such depth, I appreciate it.
<Insert clever signature here>
As usual, happy to help.
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