Although it may not come up that often, I don't really understand why they would significantly destroy the usefulness of this spell.
Here is the 2014 text:
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions."
Here is the 2024 text:
"The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells."
So in the 2024 version, a True Polymorphed creature is incapable of speech or casting spells EVEN if the stat block of the creature it is transformed into contains such abilities.
Why would anyone think this was a good idea? Is this an editing error? Did someone mess up when trying to simplify the text without having a clue about what it said? Did they intend to make a 9th level spell virtually useless by making the True Polymorphed creature incapable of speech or casting spells?
Any thoughts?
P.S. Is there a mechanism in place yet to report obvious issues like this one?
P.P.S. This is based on the D&D Beyond text, I haven't seen the print version yet to see if it contains the same issue.
What is there really to say? No more discussions about whether an iron golem can cast spells if you polymorph into one. Not that I think there was ever such a discussion, all I'm saying is: You cannot leave your caster frailty behind - yet remain a caster regardless. Seems utterly fair to me.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I agree that the usefulness has severely diminished. It makes sense that you cant cast your own spells anymore I guess, but speech? Really? As a 9th level spell? This is now just polymorph without the beast requirement, something I can see as maybe 7th level, but 9th? Not to mention that I really wish creature to object lets the caster decide if they remember their time as an object, I really want to transform bad people into furniture and have them experience it fully. :)
At this point, if you want to become an Iron Golem, just use Wish and phrase it like the following:
"I Wish to become a working Iron Golem that is able to cast spells and can speak (Insert languages you want here) fluently."
Really, True Polymorph has always been a prison tool for me. I just turn the BBEG into a shrieker mushroom, and they no longer can do any sinister stuff.
Keep in mind this is not just a spell for a wizard to turn themselves into a raging dragon. It can also be used on enemies, where preventing speech or casting can be a good thing. "Unless its new form is capable of such actions" left a lot of room for argument - both by players and by DMs wanting to salvage their BBEG fight - for a lot of forms. Now it is much clearer, although its uses have changed a bit.
Keep in mind this is not just a spell for a wizard to turn themselves into a raging dragon. It can also be used on enemies, where preventing speech or casting can be a good thing. "Unless its new form is capable of such actions" left a lot of room for argument - both by players and by DMs wanting to salvage their BBEG fight - for a lot of forms. Now it is much clearer, although its uses have changed a bit.
I meeeean, it's a very simple argument to solve as the caster, don't give the BBEG's new form a mouth, now the new form doesn't have the ability to speak, rules as written, the BBEG can no longer speak. And if the DM doesn't want their BBEG to be polymorphed they should talk to their players about it, same way you at some point have to have the infinite simulacrum discussion, and put safeguards in place for the BBEG. We're talking about a 9th level ability, the party is gonna be end game characters, the BBEG should be prepared to face demigods, if he's thwarted by polymorph because he didn't put on his pants of anti-polymorph he didn't deserve to be the campaigns big baddie.
They could have clarified it to- “except for spellcasting features on the stat block”, because now it feels like if you transform into something with innate magic, you don’t get the magic.
They could have clarified it to- “except for spellcasting features on the stat block”, because now it feels like if you transform into something with innate magic, you don’t get the magic.
Actually, you can't do that anyway. No speech, so no verbal components. Also, they did say "it can’t speak or cast spells" so that just means...
This seems like a poor choice of updated words. I don't see why a human true polymorphing into a dwarf would be unable to talk while under the effects of the transformation, I think a lot of DMs will house rule around that since it's kinda dumbly written now.
This seems like a poor choice of updated words. I don't see why a human true polymorphing into a dwarf would be unable to talk while under the effects of the transformation, I think a lot of DMs will house rule around that since it's kinda dumbly written now.
It actually does make sense logically. When you polymorph/true polymorph into a creature you don't get that creatures memories, talking is something that is learned and requires memory of what words mean. So it makes sense if you polymorph into a dwarf you don't suddenly know dwarvish but don't know the lay out of the dwarf's house.
This seems like a poor choice of updated words. I don't see why a human true polymorphing into a dwarf would be unable to talk while under the effects of the transformation, I think a lot of DMs will house rule around that since it's kinda dumbly written now.
It actually does make sense logically. When you polymorph/true polymorph into a creature you don't get that creatures memories, talking is something that is learned and requires memory of what words mean. So it makes sense if you polymorph into a dwarf you don't suddenly know dwarvish but don't know the lay out of the dwarf's house.
But how does it make sense you can’t speak Common in that circumstance?
The other problem with true polymorph is that the spell ends when you have no temporary hit points, and temporary hit points are lost when you finish a long rest.
This seems like a poor choice of updated words. I don't see why a human true polymorphing into a dwarf would be unable to talk while under the effects of the transformation, I think a lot of DMs will house rule around that since it's kinda dumbly written now.
It actually does make sense logically. When you polymorph/true polymorph into a creature you don't get that creatures memories, talking is something that is learned and requires memory of what words mean. So it makes sense if you polymorph into a dwarf you don't suddenly know dwarvish but don't know the lay out of the dwarf's house.
But how does it make sense you can’t speak Common in that circumstance?
Why is common any different from any other language? A creature isn't born knowing common. A dwarf raised by wolves wouldn't know common, so why would a dwarf you polymorph into know common? Remember Polymorph doesn't preserve your mental stats, it arguably doesn't retain your specific memories, just your overall personality and your ability to identify friend & foe. Polymorph isn't WildShape.
Why is common any different from any other language? A creature isn't born knowing common. A dwarf raised by wolves wouldn't know common, so why would a dwarf you polymorph into know common? Remember Polymorph doesn't preserve your mental stats, it arguably doesn't retain your specific memories, just your overall personality and your ability to identify friend & foe. Polymorph isn't WildShape.
True polymorph doesn't remove language -- you can still understand it, assuming you could before -- it removes the ability to speak.
Why is common any different from any other language? A creature isn't born knowing common. A dwarf raised by wolves wouldn't know common, so why would a dwarf you polymorph into know common? Remember Polymorph doesn't preserve your mental stats, it arguably doesn't retain your specific memories, just your overall personality and your ability to identify friend & foe. Polymorph isn't WildShape.
True polymorph doesn't remove language -- you can still understand it, assuming you could before -- it removes the ability to speak.
Where does it say that? True Polymorph replaces your stats with those of the creature no where does it say you retain your language proficiencies.
True Polymorph says:
The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the new form, but it retains its Hit Points, Hit Point Dice, alignment, and personality.
The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells.
The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.
Where in there does it say you can still understand Common? I certainly don't see it anywhere. If the creature you transform into can understand common then you can still understand common, but if it can't then you cannot. Because language proficiencies are part of a creature's stat-block.
Where does it say that? True Polymorph replaces your stats with those of the creature no where does it say you retain your language proficiencies.
True polymorph specifically states that you cannot speak, it places no restrictions on understanding. It's possible you have the language proficiencies of your form rather than your original language proficiencies, but if the intent was that you didn't have any languages it would say that.
The more I hear about this, the worse the changes sound, because it’s basically just a save-or-suck “turn your enemy into a statue” spell now
I mean if you see no value in transforming into a Planetar if you can't use its innate spellcasting then that's up to you, but it still seems mighty valuable as a spell to me.
Polymorph spells have never allowed a character to retain knowledge - only alignment and personality.
If I had to guess, the idea behind restricting languages further is to limit those who like to argue that when they are polymorphed they can do whatever they like. Work with the group, talk with them, interact with them as if they were still their original character - all of which require retention of knowledge ... not just personality ... ie are you a nice person, a grumpy person, evil or good?, impatient, etc ... all characteristics that would have been formed by the knowledge of your previous character but the character only retains the personality traits when polymorphed - not the knowledge of how the character became that way.
True Polymorphing the character into a fully functional dragon leaves open the question of what reasonable actions that dragon might take considering that they only have the alignment and personality of the original character - not its knowledge. The dragon might like the folks in the party but it knows nothing about them. An intelligent dragon, discovering that they were another creature true polymorphed, might decide to NOT change back. Why should they? They know nothing about the person they used to be and unless the character was Lawfully aligned, the dragon might feel no need to change back.
By removing the ability to speak - it makes it less attractive for the creature to remain in that form and prevents it from easily coordinating with the party.
Personally, I don't like the change since it takes away some DM agency in determining exactly what the spell should mean in their game. Now a DM needs to house rule it to get a different functionality.
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Although it may not come up that often, I don't really understand why they would significantly destroy the usefulness of this spell.
Here is the 2014 text:
"The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions."
Here is the 2024 text:
"The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells."
So in the 2024 version, a True Polymorphed creature is incapable of speech or casting spells EVEN if the stat block of the creature it is transformed into contains such abilities.
Why would anyone think this was a good idea? Is this an editing error? Did someone mess up when trying to simplify the text without having a clue about what it said? Did they intend to make a 9th level spell virtually useless by making the True Polymorphed creature incapable of speech or casting spells?
Any thoughts?
P.S. Is there a mechanism in place yet to report obvious issues like this one?
P.P.S. This is based on the D&D Beyond text, I haven't seen the print version yet to see if it contains the same issue.
What is there really to say? No more discussions about whether an iron golem can cast spells if you polymorph into one. Not that I think there was ever such a discussion, all I'm saying is: You cannot leave your caster frailty behind - yet remain a caster regardless. Seems utterly fair to me.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I agree that the usefulness has severely diminished. It makes sense that you cant cast your own spells anymore I guess, but speech? Really? As a 9th level spell? This is now just polymorph without the beast requirement, something I can see as maybe 7th level, but 9th? Not to mention that I really wish creature to object lets the caster decide if they remember their time as an object, I really want to transform bad people into furniture and have them experience it fully. :)
At this point, if you want to become an Iron Golem, just use Wish and phrase it like the following:
"I Wish to become a working Iron Golem that is able to cast spells and can speak (Insert languages you want here) fluently."
Really, True Polymorph has always been a prison tool for me. I just turn the BBEG into a shrieker mushroom, and they no longer can do any sinister stuff.
KOBOLDS WITH CANNONS! A RP thread about Small humanoids with Huge weapons.
Proud member of the EVIL JEFF CULT! PRAISE JEFF!
Homebrew Races: HERE Homebrew Spells: HERE Homebrew Monsters: HERE
MORE OF ME! (And platypodes/platypi/platypuses) (Extended signature)
Keep in mind this is not just a spell for a wizard to turn themselves into a raging dragon. It can also be used on enemies, where preventing speech or casting can be a good thing. "Unless its new form is capable of such actions" left a lot of room for argument - both by players and by DMs wanting to salvage their BBEG fight - for a lot of forms. Now it is much clearer, although its uses have changed a bit.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I meeeean, it's a very simple argument to solve as the caster, don't give the BBEG's new form a mouth, now the new form doesn't have the ability to speak, rules as written, the BBEG can no longer speak. And if the DM doesn't want their BBEG to be polymorphed they should talk to their players about it, same way you at some point have to have the infinite simulacrum discussion, and put safeguards in place for the BBEG. We're talking about a 9th level ability, the party is gonna be end game characters, the BBEG should be prepared to face demigods, if he's thwarted by polymorph because he didn't put on his pants of anti-polymorph he didn't deserve to be the campaigns big baddie.
They could have clarified it to- “except for spellcasting features on the stat block”, because now it feels like if you transform into something with innate magic, you don’t get the magic.
Actually, you can't do that anyway. No speech, so no verbal components. Also, they did say "it can’t speak or cast spells" so that just means...
No spells. Period.
:(
KOBOLDS WITH CANNONS! A RP thread about Small humanoids with Huge weapons.
Proud member of the EVIL JEFF CULT! PRAISE JEFF!
Homebrew Races: HERE Homebrew Spells: HERE Homebrew Monsters: HERE
MORE OF ME! (And platypodes/platypi/platypuses) (Extended signature)
This seems like a poor choice of updated words. I don't see why a human true polymorphing into a dwarf would be unable to talk while under the effects of the transformation, I think a lot of DMs will house rule around that since it's kinda dumbly written now.
It actually does make sense logically. When you polymorph/true polymorph into a creature you don't get that creatures memories, talking is something that is learned and requires memory of what words mean. So it makes sense if you polymorph into a dwarf you don't suddenly know dwarvish but don't know the lay out of the dwarf's house.
But how does it make sense you can’t speak Common in that circumstance?
The other problem with true polymorph is that the spell ends when you have no temporary hit points, and temporary hit points are lost when you finish a long rest.
Why is common any different from any other language? A creature isn't born knowing common. A dwarf raised by wolves wouldn't know common, so why would a dwarf you polymorph into know common? Remember Polymorph doesn't preserve your mental stats, it arguably doesn't retain your specific memories, just your overall personality and your ability to identify friend & foe. Polymorph isn't WildShape.
True polymorph doesn't remove language -- you can still understand it, assuming you could before -- it removes the ability to speak.
Where does it say that? True Polymorph replaces your stats with those of the creature no where does it say you retain your language proficiencies.
True Polymorph says:
Where in there does it say you can still understand Common? I certainly don't see it anywhere. If the creature you transform into can understand common then you can still understand common, but if it can't then you cannot. Because language proficiencies are part of a creature's stat-block.
True polymorph specifically states that you cannot speak, it places no restrictions on understanding. It's possible you have the language proficiencies of your form rather than your original language proficiencies, but if the intent was that you didn't have any languages it would say that.
The more I hear about this, the worse the changes sound, because it’s basically just a save-or-suck “turn your enemy into a statue” spell now
It's somewhat useful as a tactical buff, but it's no longer a durable benefit.
I mean if you see no value in transforming into a Planetar if you can't use its innate spellcasting then that's up to you, but it still seems mighty valuable as a spell to me.
Polymorph spells have never allowed a character to retain knowledge - only alignment and personality.
If I had to guess, the idea behind restricting languages further is to limit those who like to argue that when they are polymorphed they can do whatever they like. Work with the group, talk with them, interact with them as if they were still their original character - all of which require retention of knowledge ... not just personality ... ie are you a nice person, a grumpy person, evil or good?, impatient, etc ... all characteristics that would have been formed by the knowledge of your previous character but the character only retains the personality traits when polymorphed - not the knowledge of how the character became that way.
True Polymorphing the character into a fully functional dragon leaves open the question of what reasonable actions that dragon might take considering that they only have the alignment and personality of the original character - not its knowledge. The dragon might like the folks in the party but it knows nothing about them. An intelligent dragon, discovering that they were another creature true polymorphed, might decide to NOT change back. Why should they? They know nothing about the person they used to be and unless the character was Lawfully aligned, the dragon might feel no need to change back.
By removing the ability to speak - it makes it less attractive for the creature to remain in that form and prevents it from easily coordinating with the party.
Personally, I don't like the change since it takes away some DM agency in determining exactly what the spell should mean in their game. Now a DM needs to house rule it to get a different functionality.