Just like every DM (I believe), I like it when my players Role play with each other, or with NPCs. But after 10 sessions I realized that there's a problem in the way to WHY my players don't do that much: They want to level up, they want to get stronger, and perhaps in their mind, role playing is just something in the way, delaying the process - it's not like they don't like to do it.
And so I tought about rewarding them EXP for when they RP - and telling them that. But, how to do it? How much EXP? How to determine what's a "RP" worth rewarding or not?
Anyway, how to motivate Role playing? It doesn't even need to be rewarded with EXP, it can be something else. But at least two of my players are EXP hungry and try to speed up things that "are in the way".
Experience Points have always been used in situations where it was easy to quantify things, i.e., certain monsters are worth certain amounts, or 1 gp of treasure found =1 xp (anyone remember those days? ).
It gets much more difficult to do when you are talking about subjective things like the "quality" of someone's roleplay.
However, if you treat roleplay simply like any combat encounter, then it becomes easy to fall back on the quantifiable amounts. Instead of defeating a creature in combat with a sword, you diffuse a situation through a good persuasion or deception. You have still beaten the obstacle, just not with a sword.
So make your RP encounters just as meaningful as your combat encounters, in terms of simply being obstacles to overcome.
Don't think of them as filler with no reward for their contribution to story advancement.
You can just award it like you would any fighting encounter. Whatever the xp budget is for the day, give them the amount they’d earn in a fight. Especially if they use resources: charm person or other spell slots, bardic inspiration, that kind of thing. And then tell them at the start of the session that you’ll be doing that from now on.
One way to shift the mindset is to explain they don’t get xp for killing monsters, they get it for overcoming challenges. If they can achieve their objective by sneaking past the goblins, or talking with the goblins, they’ll get the same xp as if they had killed the goblins. It can help them think of enemies as not just xp piñatas that need to be broken open.
The other solution could be a shift to milestone leveling, but if you have players who enjoy the reward aspect of getting xp every session, that may not be a good fit for your group.
Move to the milestone system, it solves this instantly. You level up when the DM decides, not before, not after.
As for encouraging roleplay, give rewards for it, particularly when the players role play and it hurts their mission completion. Say a character does not trust X people, have him suspicious of an X and discover the X is betraying someone.
1. Talk with your players: It feels like some of your players aren't on the same page as you, they want more XP and a lot less RP than you envisioned. A session 0 really helps with these things, but now it's too late for that. I'd advice you talk to each of your players and ask them what areas they want to focus on, and take that into account when planning your adventures.
2. XP for RP? This makes sense, I'd say, give XP when you feel your players roleplay their personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws well. This encourages your players to roleplay and not just fight everyone, I'd just make sure you don't dole massive amounts out.
3. Inspiration: In addition to XP, I'd also give your players inspiration when they roleplay particularily well in important moments.
4. XP for peace: You may already do this, but if you don't then I'd suggest giving your players XP if they broker peace with a monster as opposed to just beating it in combat.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
In general, the reward for roleplaying is having fun, so if they aren't having fun roleplaying, maybe just don't push them. That said, if you're actually solving problems with roleplaying, giving them exp for solving the problem is standard.
I award extra XP for good RP. If you look at the rules it gives the DM instruction to award Inspiration for certain situations. In my experience most players either save or forget their inspiration and it never gets used, so instead I award an extra 25 XP for those situations and then I can do so multiple times per session.
I award extra XP for good RP. If you look at the rules it gives the DM instruction to award Inspiration for certain situations. In my experience most players either save or forget their inspiration and it never gets used, so instead I award an extra 25 XP for those situations and then I can do so multiple times per session.
That is the tricky part. Who decides what is good role-playing? What is the metric? The issue with awarding XP for good role-playing is it requires you to judge players performance. For introverts who enjoy the game for less theatrical reasons, by awarding extroverts who explore their inner actor, awarding XP is more of a punishment to the players don't perform rather than a reward for those that do. I have players in my game that struggle with social aspects of the game.. and really just in general. Asking them to act in character is absolute torture, to reward others for doing it would be nothing short of just mean.
I’ve got players that never even speak in character who still manage to earn additional XP with my system. 🤷♂️
For me the true test of in character is to do something against the party but in his own interest, such as saving a magic item rather than attacking the enemy.
For me the true test of in character is to do something against the party but in his own interest, such as saving a magic item rather than attacking the enemy.
THat definition could used for being a jerk. I steal from the other party members because it is in my PCs interest.
Not necessarily in the own interest, but what there character would do. For example a socially awkward low charisma character could say something that immidately undoes all the progress the face had made trying to persuade the NPC to do what the party wanted.
It can be taken too far however, Adventurers risk their lives and need to trust the rest of the party to watch their back, any behaviors that would lead the rest of the party to not be willing to adventure with them is too extreme.
Different players expect different things from the game and this needs ot be agreed in session 0. Some players like hard tactical battles which even a slight mistake can lead to a TPK those players have no rom for flaws in characters (I know RAW every character has a flaw but this is often either ignored because the players don't think heroes should have flaws. Other relish in the goofy antics of the stupid paladin / barb (other classes with dumped intelligence are available)
I think that I can answer your problem in two words: use milestone.
In case you don't know, "milestone" is when your player characters gain a level when you tell them to gain a level, not because they killed X monsters and got XP for it. If you use milestone, it will be easier to control and keep track character level in your game, and you will also be able to reward all 3 tiers of play equally. There is absolutely no reason not to start using milestone in all your games right now, and once you start, you'll never look back.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
One way to encourage roleplay is to have npcs the characters need to interact with to further their goals...whether it's someone hiring the party for a task, someone who has some item or information the party needs, a scholar to translate a book, help complete a map with missing pieces, etc. Of course, this means you, as DM, must play the NPCs, and the way you do that will guide the party in how to respond....
Or. give the party a contact within some organization...the Harpers, Lords of the Alliance, Knights of the Rose, Knights Who Say Ni, whatever. Maybe different party members have different affiliations....this can provide plot hooks, resources...random encounters with other members or enemies of the affiliated group, etc.
In 5e, the built-in reward for dramatic/awesome roleplay choices is Inspiration, although it's admittedly a bit bland. My group has expanded on what Inspiration can do, allowing for Heroic Actions and other "Rule of Cool" things that would not normally be possible.
I also try not define encounters as "combat" or "social," but rather as obstacles or challenges that the party can overcome in a number of ways. Once it became clear to my party that they can often resolve things without murdering everyone and still get the same (or better) rewards, they really took to it.
One big thing is to not have everyone resolved to fight to the death. Wild animals turn tail and run when it's clear the party isn't an easy meal. Sentient creatures retreat, surrender, bargain. Not only does it remove the relatively boring "mop-up" phase of battles, it also makes your creatures feel more alive and real. It can really change the game if you're not constantly trying to reconcile the common trope of a group of self-proclaimed heroes murder-hoboing across the countryside.
Before the blades are drawn and the spells start to fly, suggest that there is an alternative way to solve a problem. You don't have to hand out exp for RP. Even after implementing such a standard some folks might have a harder time with it than others.
If the point you want is to get your players to RP then put them in situations that require it. Not all encounters have to be a fight.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
You should reward interaction with things that make future actions easier/more profitable.
For example, if the party engages with a fence then they get access to a forged id that makes infiltrating the palace easier.
For example, if the party gets involved and helps out in a merchants family drama then the party gets better sale prices on loot.
For example, if the party explores a ruin and then maps it and takes the map to a local mapmakers guild then the guild provides them with maps making navigation easier.
In the real world, taking the time to be social makes life easier. The same should apply to a game world.
If the players are breezing past all non-combat situations then that means their characters are doing the same, and therefore get a reputation for being rude, distant, and uninterested. This should make the characters' lives more difficult.
Show, don't tell. Maybe the party hear the customer before them get a discount. When they get to the front of the line, they don't get the discount. If they ask why, the merchant says, "Because they helped me with my son's illness last week. You don't even know my name, why should you get a discount?"
Instead of approaching experience in the RPG console pov where you gain experience for each creature you kill award experience for achieving a goal and over coming the obstructions in the way. The DMG encourages giving exp for more than combat pgs 260-261. The main thing is did the Role play advance the plot, was there a chance of failure in it. Talking to the old fisherman who gives our a job, is not worth any experience. However, maybe convincing an old lord to allow the party to use his bridge safely after intense negotiations in a room full of guards ready to attack them at the lords command is worth experience. If there is something critical at stake and there is a chance of failure give experience for succeeding. If the role play took all of ten minutes it probably worth a little experience, but if it took an hour or similar amount of time as an encounter in your game you may decide to give the same experience they could earn in a full encounter. If there is actual threat in the room, such as the guards. Then the experience is worth the amount of the guards had they fought them to the death. Similarly, puzzles and traps can also be worth experience.
Anyway, how to motivate Role playing? It doesn't even need to be rewarded with EXP, it can be something else. But at least two of my players are EXP hungry and try to speed up things that "are in the way".
Use milestone levelling instead of XP. Using XP doesn't make a lot of sense in level-bases system anyway. :/
Milestone is the exact opposite of that, players have ZERO control over their rewards and nothing they do matters to the rate at which they progress, it is entirely up to the DM.
Incorrect. Milestone is "you get levels by completing quests" instead of "you get levels by killing monsters". This does require that the game have quests, but it's still player controlled.
Now, "PCs level up when the DM thinks its time for them to level up" is a way people play D&D -- but it's not milestone.
In short however you are correct. Milestone XP has nothing to do with leveling, it is essentially outlining rewards for completing certain tasks and you get the XP when you complete said task. That however is not what is being discussed. What we are really talking about here is Level Advancement Without XP where the DM simply decides at certain intervals whenever they feel it's appropriate or fitting to level up the characters.
Not really. "You get the same XP for accomplishing X regardless of how you accomplish it" does solve at least some of the OP's issues.
Anyway, how to motivate Role playing? It doesn't even need to be rewarded with EXP, it can be something else. But at least two of my players are EXP hungry and try to speed up things that "are in the way".
Use milestone levelling instead of XP. Using XP doesn't make a lot of sense in level-bases system anyway. :/
The DM has players that very specifically want to have control over their rewards, as he says it, his players are hungry for XP. This is very normal player behavior, many players want to play D&D and have control over the game, and they want to drive their own success and be rewarded using a system they understand and can exploit.
Milestone is the best way for the DM to control the PC's rewards since it's literally down to the Dm to decide when they want to reward them. The players can still influence the pace they are rewarded by doing the right thing, If the DM wants character growth and the players evolving their characters on a more spiritual level then it doesn't matter how many monsters they kill, they still won't level up. This encourgaes the kind of roleplaying that the DM wants to reward.
Milestone is the exact opposite of that, players have ZERO control over their rewards and nothing they do matters to the rate at which they progress, it is entirely up to the DM.
Completely false. In a way the players have more control over their rewards as long as they know what goals they need to achieve to be rewarded. If the milestone for levelling up is that the party brokers peace between two rivalling elf tribes the amount of goblins they slay is irrelevant. At the same time, if they work smart and fast to give the tribes what they want they can have peace quicker, thus triggering the milestone faster.
In short, if you want to encourage roleplaying, don't use a system where roleplaying can be made redundant by killing monsters.
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Just like every DM (I believe), I like it when my players Role play with each other, or with NPCs. But after 10 sessions I realized that there's a problem in the way to WHY my players don't do that much: They want to level up, they want to get stronger, and perhaps in their mind, role playing is just something in the way, delaying the process - it's not like they don't like to do it.
And so I tought about rewarding them EXP for when they RP - and telling them that. But, how to do it? How much EXP? How to determine what's a "RP" worth rewarding or not?
Anyway, how to motivate Role playing? It doesn't even need to be rewarded with EXP, it can be something else. But at least two of my players are EXP hungry and try to speed up things that "are in the way".
Experience Points have always been used in situations where it was easy to quantify things, i.e., certain monsters are worth certain amounts, or 1 gp of treasure found =1 xp (anyone remember those days? ).
It gets much more difficult to do when you are talking about subjective things like the "quality" of someone's roleplay.
However, if you treat roleplay simply like any combat encounter, then it becomes easy to fall back on the quantifiable amounts. Instead of defeating a creature in combat with a sword, you diffuse a situation through a good persuasion or deception. You have still beaten the obstacle, just not with a sword.
So make your RP encounters just as meaningful as your combat encounters, in terms of simply being obstacles to overcome.
Don't think of them as filler with no reward for their contribution to story advancement.
You can just award it like you would any fighting encounter. Whatever the xp budget is for the day, give them the amount they’d earn in a fight. Especially if they use resources: charm person or other spell slots, bardic inspiration, that kind of thing. And then tell them at the start of the session that you’ll be doing that from now on.
One way to shift the mindset is to explain they don’t get xp for killing monsters, they get it for overcoming challenges. If they can achieve their objective by sneaking past the goblins, or talking with the goblins, they’ll get the same xp as if they had killed the goblins. It can help them think of enemies as not just xp piñatas that need to be broken open.
The other solution could be a shift to milestone leveling, but if you have players who enjoy the reward aspect of getting xp every session, that may not be a good fit for your group.
Move to the milestone system, it solves this instantly. You level up when the DM decides, not before, not after.
As for encouraging roleplay, give rewards for it, particularly when the players role play and it hurts their mission completion. Say a character does not trust X people, have him suspicious of an X and discover the X is betraying someone.
1. Talk with your players: It feels like some of your players aren't on the same page as you, they want more XP and a lot less RP than you envisioned. A session 0 really helps with these things, but now it's too late for that. I'd advice you talk to each of your players and ask them what areas they want to focus on, and take that into account when planning your adventures.
2. XP for RP? This makes sense, I'd say, give XP when you feel your players roleplay their personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws well. This encourages your players to roleplay and not just fight everyone, I'd just make sure you don't dole massive amounts out.
3. Inspiration: In addition to XP, I'd also give your players inspiration when they roleplay particularily well in important moments.
4. XP for peace: You may already do this, but if you don't then I'd suggest giving your players XP if they broker peace with a monster as opposed to just beating it in combat.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.In general, the reward for roleplaying is having fun, so if they aren't having fun roleplaying, maybe just don't push them. That said, if you're actually solving problems with roleplaying, giving them exp for solving the problem is standard.
I award extra XP for good RP. If you look at the rules it gives the DM instruction to award Inspiration for certain situations. In my experience most players either save or forget their inspiration and it never gets used, so instead I award an extra 25 XP for those situations and then I can do so multiple times per session.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I’ve got players that never even speak in character who still manage to earn additional XP with my system. 🤷♂️
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
For me the true test of in character is to do something against the party but in his own interest, such as saving a magic item rather than attacking the enemy.
THat definition could used for being a jerk. I steal from the other party members because it is in my PCs interest.
Not necessarily in the own interest, but what there character would do. For example a socially awkward low charisma character could say something that immidately undoes all the progress the face had made trying to persuade the NPC to do what the party wanted.
It can be taken too far however, Adventurers risk their lives and need to trust the rest of the party to watch their back, any behaviors that would lead the rest of the party to not be willing to adventure with them is too extreme.
Different players expect different things from the game and this needs ot be agreed in session 0. Some players like hard tactical battles which even a slight mistake can lead to a TPK those players have no rom for flaws in characters (I know RAW every character has a flaw but this is often either ignored because the players don't think heroes should have flaws. Other relish in the goofy antics of the stupid paladin / barb (other classes with dumped intelligence are available)
I think that I can answer your problem in two words: use milestone.
In case you don't know, "milestone" is when your player characters gain a level when you tell them to gain a level, not because they killed X monsters and got XP for it. If you use milestone, it will be easier to control and keep track character level in your game, and you will also be able to reward all 3 tiers of play equally. There is absolutely no reason not to start using milestone in all your games right now, and once you start, you'll never look back.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
One way to encourage roleplay is to have npcs the characters need to interact with to further their goals...whether it's someone hiring the party for a task, someone who has some item or information the party needs, a scholar to translate a book, help complete a map with missing pieces, etc. Of course, this means you, as DM, must play the NPCs, and the way you do that will guide the party in how to respond....
Or. give the party a contact within some organization...the Harpers, Lords of the Alliance, Knights of the Rose, Knights Who Say Ni, whatever. Maybe different party members have different affiliations....this can provide plot hooks, resources...random encounters with other members or enemies of the affiliated group, etc.
In 5e, the built-in reward for dramatic/awesome roleplay choices is Inspiration, although it's admittedly a bit bland. My group has expanded on what Inspiration can do, allowing for Heroic Actions and other "Rule of Cool" things that would not normally be possible.
I also try not define encounters as "combat" or "social," but rather as obstacles or challenges that the party can overcome in a number of ways. Once it became clear to my party that they can often resolve things without murdering everyone and still get the same (or better) rewards, they really took to it.
One big thing is to not have everyone resolved to fight to the death. Wild animals turn tail and run when it's clear the party isn't an easy meal. Sentient creatures retreat, surrender, bargain. Not only does it remove the relatively boring "mop-up" phase of battles, it also makes your creatures feel more alive and real. It can really change the game if you're not constantly trying to reconcile the common trope of a group of self-proclaimed heroes murder-hoboing across the countryside.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Before the blades are drawn and the spells start to fly, suggest that there is an alternative way to solve a problem. You don't have to hand out exp for RP. Even after implementing such a standard some folks might have a harder time with it than others.
If the point you want is to get your players to RP then put them in situations that require it. Not all encounters have to be a fight.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You should reward interaction with things that make future actions easier/more profitable.
For example, if the party engages with a fence then they get access to a forged id that makes infiltrating the palace easier.
For example, if the party gets involved and helps out in a merchants family drama then the party gets better sale prices on loot.
For example, if the party explores a ruin and then maps it and takes the map to a local mapmakers guild then the guild provides them with maps making navigation easier.
In the real world, taking the time to be social makes life easier. The same should apply to a game world.
If the players are breezing past all non-combat situations then that means their characters are doing the same, and therefore get a reputation for being rude, distant, and uninterested. This should make the characters' lives more difficult.
Show, don't tell. Maybe the party hear the customer before them get a discount. When they get to the front of the line, they don't get the discount. If they ask why, the merchant says, "Because they helped me with my son's illness last week. You don't even know my name, why should you get a discount?"
Instead of approaching experience in the RPG console pov where you gain experience for each creature you kill award experience for achieving a goal and over coming the obstructions in the way. The DMG encourages giving exp for more than combat pgs 260-261. The main thing is did the Role play advance the plot, was there a chance of failure in it. Talking to the old fisherman who gives our a job, is not worth any experience. However, maybe convincing an old lord to allow the party to use his bridge safely after intense negotiations in a room full of guards ready to attack them at the lords command is worth experience. If there is something critical at stake and there is a chance of failure give experience for succeeding. If the role play took all of ten minutes it probably worth a little experience, but if it took an hour or similar amount of time as an encounter in your game you may decide to give the same experience they could earn in a full encounter. If there is actual threat in the room, such as the guards. Then the experience is worth the amount of the guards had they fought them to the death. Similarly, puzzles and traps can also be worth experience.
Use milestone levelling instead of XP. Using XP doesn't make a lot of sense in level-bases system anyway. :/
Incorrect. Milestone is "you get levels by completing quests" instead of "you get levels by killing monsters". This does require that the game have quests, but it's still player controlled.
Now, "PCs level up when the DM thinks its time for them to level up" is a way people play D&D -- but it's not milestone.
Not really. "You get the same XP for accomplishing X regardless of how you accomplish it" does solve at least some of the OP's issues.
Milestone is the best way for the DM to control the PC's rewards since it's literally down to the Dm to decide when they want to reward them. The players can still influence the pace they are rewarded by doing the right thing, If the DM wants character growth and the players evolving their characters on a more spiritual level then it doesn't matter how many monsters they kill, they still won't level up. This encourgaes the kind of roleplaying that the DM wants to reward.
Completely false. In a way the players have more control over their rewards as long as they know what goals they need to achieve to be rewarded. If the milestone for levelling up is that the party brokers peace between two rivalling elf tribes the amount of goblins they slay is irrelevant. At the same time, if they work smart and fast to give the tribes what they want they can have peace quicker, thus triggering the milestone faster.
In short, if you want to encourage roleplaying, don't use a system where roleplaying can be made redundant by killing monsters.