Would you consider playing in a campaign that started at 0 level? How long do you think you would consider is too long to be 0 level for before advancing to 1st level? If you've played a 0 level character before, what was the pitfalls and benefits? What System did you use?

In the past I used to begin the party off at 0 level. I quickly learned that 0 level meant multiple things to multiple people.

Here is ONE POSSIBLE System

Step One - Create a '1st level' Character

This is what the player wants the character to evolve into after their journey through 0 level.

Characters roll up their characters as per normal and decide the class they aspire to become. This includes skills, racial abilities and stats. These are what they will develop into over their journey as 0 levels. As time progresses, players may decide they want to switch skills, stats or even eventual classes as they want to take their character in a different direction.

Step Two - Timeline

Which stage will you begin at? Between each stage, the character will to 'fast forward' or 'time jump' through training periods to explain how they acquired their new skills and abilities.

0 Level Stages

Adolescents - Stage One

Character Abilities -

At Stage One the characters add  -

• At this stage the characters begin with 1d4 hp,
• one self taught skill 
• minimal/basic equipment.
• Racial Traits

0 level could mean starting off from absolute scratch. For example,  the party are a bunch of street kids, trying to find food, shelter and any means to survive the horrors of the streets. They have to compete with other rival 'gangs', pick pocket, avoid the law, work for dodgy characters to complete risky tasks, etc It could also mean a group of friends from a village, exploring the nearby ruins in a forest only to discover its infested with giant insects. It could also be a group of high born children forced to navigate the rigors of court while their parent prepare them for employment with the royal wizard, knight, high priest and spy.

Skilled/Employed  - Stage Two

Character Abilities -

At Stage Two the characters add  -

• an additional 1d4 (only to their max),
• gain all their skills and
• gain a +1 proficiency bonus.
• At the DM's discretion (if you are beginning to learn to become a class with spell casting abilities), you may also gain one cantrip to cast.

At this stage the characters have begun to develop skills. Between Stage One and Two, they have learned a taught skill - ie religion, arcane lore, history etc They will have gainful employment so just surviving is no longer an issue. They might be in the employ of a Blacksmith who once was a member of the Hallowed Hammers. They could start to work for an alchemist who introduces the young lass to one of his wizard customers. Perhaps he works for the church as an acolyte , preparing the church and collecting donations at mass for the nasty old High Priestess. Perhaps they begin to do jobs for a local Criminal who then takes him under his wing at the Thieves Guildhouse. The possibilities are endless but the idea is for them to begin learning skills and abilities at this stage.

Apprentices  - Stage Three

Character Abilities -

At Stage Threethe characters add  -

• Full Hit Points
• gain all their skills
• gain a +2 proficiency bonus
• All cantrips

At this stage the characters are apprentices. Fighting classes have proficiency in some weapons and have one (or more - DM's discretion) class abilities. Casters can cast all their cantrips as if they are 1st levels. Characters gain maximum stats, hit points and skills (if they haven't done so already). They may only have basic equipment - the Squire: padded armour, short sword and a donkey etc -. This stage is about breaking away from their masters. It might be a permanent move or, more likely, a staggered break as they characters head off adventuring then return for more training/advice/work/resources/etc.

If the party are going to begin at Stage One - Adolescents, they begin with one general skill, and take a d12 off each stat. For example Jimmy wants to be a Wizard at 1st level. He has a Int of 17 and skills including perception. Jimmy rolls a d12 and rolls an 8. His characters begin his adventuring journey with an Int of 9. As he advances through each 'stage' he can roll a d4 to add to that score plus whatever bonus the DM gives him for working on that score (perhaps he has been helping the local Librarian who is teaching him to read, perhaps he plays a strategy game with an old man every morning who tells him stories etc. The skill can only be something logical ie they are not going to know Arcania unless they have been taught this but could have learned Athletics, Persuasion, Perception etc themselves. They would have only d4 hit points (+ constitution score) to begin with.

Timeline

Firstly, the group need to decide if they want to go through every stage or just begin at a later stage. Each stage would normally last one or two sessions only (length of a normal adventure) before they move to the next stage. 'Time jumps' are important for 0 levels. Between each stage, time will elapse as they characters train, learn and develop. They might begin at Stage One, (jump for a couple of years as they train in skills and/or occupation), move to Stage Two where they play out another adventure or series of tasks, (jump forward again as they train as apprentices), play an adventure Stage Three and then jump ahead one last time until they become 1st level characters.

Anyway, please let me know of any Level 0 ideas you have, any Level 0 games you've been involved in and whether you think I should change the model above in any way. Cheers

I pretty much give enough XP to get from 1st level to 2nd level after the first 3-hour session, so I wouldn’t expect it to take more than a single session to get from 0th level to 1st level either.

If I were to start PCs at 0th level, I would tell them to roll up a 1st level PC as per normal, but to start with they would only get the following:

1. Whatever stats they rolled.
2. All of their racial abilities.
3. All of their background equipment, features & proficiencies.
4. A single d4 Hit Die.
5. Martial characters would get proficiency in all simple weapons (including shortswords) and light armor & shields, non martial characters would get proficiency with the dagger, quarterstaff, sling.
6. Full spellcasters would get a single cantrip, and if they will get 3 or more cantrips @ 1st level, a second cantrip. Only 1 cantrip could be for combat.
7. Full casters who would only get 1 cantrip (2 at 1st level) would also get to choose proficiency in a single additional simple weapon. 

That’s how I would do it anyway.

Quote from IamSposta >>

I pretty much give enough XP to get from 1st level to 2nd level after the first 3-hour session, so I wouldn’t expect it to take more than a single session to get from 0th level to 1st level either.

If I were to start PCs at 0th level, I would tell them to roll up a 1st level PC as per normal, but to start with they would only get the following:

1. Whatever stats they rolled.
2. All of their racial abilities.
3. All of their background equipment, features & proficiencies.
4. A single d4 Hit Die.
5. Martial characters would get proficiency in all simple weapons (including shortswords) and light armor & shields, non martial characters would get proficiency with the dagger, quarterstaff, sling.
6. Full spellcasters would get a single cantrip, and if they will get 3 or more cantrips @ 1st level, a second cantrip. Only 1 cantrip could be for combat.
7. Full casters who would only get 1 cantrip (2 at 1st level) would also get to choose proficiency in a single additional simple weapon. 

That’s how I would do it anyway.

I did almost the exact same thing for my campaign, which started with level 0. Magic didn’t exist yet at the time of level 0, so no class abilities or proficiencies were permitted quite yet. It was a dangerous time. Honestly, your way is much better and I wish I had seen it a year ago. I could have RP’d those cantrips as some other, more mundane abilities that they had until magic was available. 

Thanks. I appreciate your approval. I wish someone had asked the question a year ago so I could have answered it for you. Lol

Quote from IamSposta >>

Thanks. I appreciate your approval. I wish someone had asked the question a year ago so I could have answered it for you. Lol

Haha. Got me there. :P

Nice take on level 0, IamSposta. So you usually smash out Level 0 in one session rather than build it up over several. My preference would be to use multiple sessions to help with roleplay and allowing characters more opportunity to develop their background and character choice...but that's just me. ;)

We once played a old version of 0 zero where you didn't have a character rolled up but, through your actions, you grew into a character class and your stats/attributes/skills. The concept was good but because everyone was using the same skills and stats to complete tasks, they would have ended up with all the same high stats and skills. So at the time they were scrambling over roughtops, climbing through windows and running from threats which was improving all their Dexterity and Strength scores but doing little for their Intelligence and Wisdom. I tried to bring in varied missions and opportunities to use different skills but, it all ended up become forced and difficult to engineer.

I think having the 1st level template drawn up that the character works towards, is much simpler and easier to aspire towards for the players.

For me, the problem with starting with L0 characters is that they are really not yet ready for the game - they are apprentices and still leaning the essential skills so they aren’t yet out in the world. Mages are still trying to master a cantrip or two Under the watchful eye of a mage, warriors are still in training groups ( taking basic training and maybe the basic infantryman training - 1/2 proficiency with martial weapons) etc.  They are essentially sidekicks not characters. One way to put such a group together would be to give the layer’s characters a sidekick/apprentice each that they are training and run some short sessions with the players running the apprentices with the regular players ready to step in if needed. Another way is to run a caravan adventure where the L0s are new caravan guards in training. 

Quote from Wi1dBi11 >>

For me, the problem with starting with L0 characters is that they are really not yet ready for the game - they are apprentices and still leaning the essential skills so they aren’t yet out in the world. Mages are still trying to master a cantrip or two Under the watchful eye of a mage, warriors are still in training groups ( taking basic training and maybe the basic infantryman training - 1/2 proficiency with martial weapons) etc.  They are essentially sidekicks not characters. One way to put such a group together would be to give the layer’s characters a sidekick/apprentice each that they are training and run some short sessions with the players running the apprentices with the regular players ready to step in if needed. Another way is to run a caravan adventure where the L0s are new caravan guards in training. 

Really its about the challenges they face. Having between 1-4 hit points certainly makes getting hurt or getting into a fight far more dangerous, but if you give the characters more skills based tasks and less combat orientated encounters, it works. When I Dm'ed this, they did have some pretty hairy encounters with a giant rat, a poisoness snake, a zombie and  bandit and his blood hawk pet. The battles were really exciting because it really came down to the dice and the players ingenuity more-so than at any other time. I remember the players using a molotov cocktail on the zombie only for it to become a walking column of flame for a round. Scared the pants off them! Potions became the stuff of legend and that Potion of Climbing saving their lives in the old abandoned tower on the outskirts of town.

Having them as sidekicks to the main character does protect them and could be a good transition but that's sort of stealing away the fun of being so vulnerable early on and having to crawl and fight to become the hero's they always aspired to be!

Thanks. I can honestly say that I haven’t done a Level 0 start since 2e when there was such a thing as Level 0 (for NPCs), so I can’t say what I “usually” do for a level 0 party. But for a 1st level party, I do usually get PCs from 1st to 3rd level in three sessions, from 3rd to 4th in another three, and from 4th to 5th in another four sessions. That’s 1st to 5th in ten sessions, 3-4 hours per session. Things slow down a little after that though. But I want to get ‘em to 3rd level with a bullet so that everyone can get their subclasses pretty quickly since it isn’t really until then that peoples’ characters really start to coalesce into their players’ visions. Then I get ‘em to 5th level at a good pace because  Extra Attack and extra dice on cantrips is when they stop feeling like “local heroes” and start feeling like actual Heroes with a capital “H.” It’s been my experience that all of the things people complain about in 5e are all a direct result of DMs not progressing characters quickly enough for their players’ satisfaction.

Yeah, 5e isn't really designed for the kind of 'targeted character development' I think you're looking for with this level 0 idea -- the way, say, Traveler or systems like that are

Quote from AntonSirius >>

Yeah, 5e isn't really designed for the kind of 'targeted character development' I think you're looking for with this level 0 idea -- the way, say, Traveler or systems like that are

 

 I never played Traveler but one of my party always talks about how much fun it was to play. I'm not really looking to play another system but rather offer up a greater opportunity for characters to grow into their characters, develop richer backstories and actually feel like 'powerful heroes' when they reach first level. A first level character is incredibly powerful compared to the average NPC and building up to that stage should be applauded and cherished. Becoming one should be a accomplishment, just not a starting point.

I believe rushing through the early levels is robbing the players. It's a bit like always speeding forward and never even spending the time to look out the side windows at the scenery (let alone stop!) It might be a Roleplayer v Meta Gamer debate but I think the most important part of D&D is the story not the statistics. Giving the players more time to immerse themselves into the world makes them far more invested in their characters and the game as a whole. Starting for scratch, means they have far more time to mould a character based as much on their experiences as their character vision. The best characters are always a combination of both.

I know that when we've played from 0 level, even after the party are high levels, it was those early adventures where they were struggling to survive that they look back on the most fondly.

Yes, doing L0 to L1 is much easier in a roleplay centered campaign than in a combat centered one. A really good look at this is the Myth Inc. series by Robert Asprin - the hero is an apprentice with two basic spells (flame & levitate) but he somehow manages to win out against ridiculous odds by luck and a bunch of interesting friends and companions. Even at the end f the series he still only has the 2 spells.

Travellor is more sci-fi but it is a skills based game with a far deadlier combat system so you try to avoid combat when possible. It’s character creation process is somewhat more amenable to an interactive development process with roleplay and story telling injected at each step.

Wi1dBi11 - I'll have to take a look at Myth Inc. It sounds really interesting. There was another book I read called 'With a single spell' which was about an apprentice who saves the kingdom with, yes you guessed it, a single spell. It was a great read.

I'm going to have to take a look at Travelor now too. Just so I know what everyone is talking about!

Quote from Delvesdeeper >>

Quote from AntonSirius >>

.....

 I never played Traveler but one of my party always talks about how much fun it was to play. I'm not really looking to play another system but rather offer up a greater opportunity for characters to grow into their characters, develop richer backstories and actually feel like 'powerful heroes' when they reach first level. A first level character is incredibly powerful compared to the average NPC and building up to that stage should be applauded and cherished. Becoming one should be a accomplishment, just not a starting point.

I believe rushing through the early levels is robbing the players. It's a bit like always speeding forward and never even spending the time to look out the side windows at the scenery (let alone stop!) It might be a Roleplayer v Meta Gamer debate but I think the most important part of D&D is the story not the statistics. Giving the players more time to immerse themselves into the world makes them far more invested in their characters and the game as a whole. Starting for scratch, means they have far more time to mould a character based as much on their experiences as their character vision. The best characters are always a combination of both.

I know that when we've played from 0 level, even after the party are high levels, it was those early adventures where they were struggling to survive that they look back on the most fondly.

 As long as your players feel the same way as you, then that's all that matters. I wouldn't want to play *DnD* as a lvl 0 character, but there are plenty of other systems that embrace the idea of normal, unheroic people as characters (which I love). As people above me have said, I don't think dnd is the right system for it - maybe you can play a different system from 0-1, then begin DnD when the players 'achieve' their 1st level? 

I actually really like swapping systems within the same universe/story. For a one-shot horror session we did in the long-time campaign I DM, we had a player in the game GM a session of Dread where we all inhabited the workers in the Tavern that the main party owned. While the main party was away, some older villains returned to take revenge, and it was up to the lowly workers to deal with it (aka survive the night). That was a very fun session. 

I believe rushing through the early levels is robbing the players. It's a bit like always speeding forward and never even spending the time to look out the side windows at the scenery (let alone stop!) It might be a Roleplayer v Meta Gamer debate but I think the most important part of D&D is the story not the statistics. Giving the players more time to immerse themselves into the world makes them far more invested in their characters and the game as a whole. Starting for scratch, means they have far more time to mould a character based as much on their experiences as their character vision. The best characters are always a combination of both.

This feels like a false comparison to me. I don't see anything that makes level 0 inherently more "immersive" than level 1 or 3 or 15. What I see is reduced options. You don't have training in many skills and the training you do have is minimal. You can't really fight. You're rolling dice with minimal - if any - modifiers which means that RNG is going to determine what happens rather than any particular choices you make. Rather than interacting with the world and forging your own path, you're just kind of tossed around by it at the whims of the DM.

Want to be a brawny, brave villager? Too bad, you need to avoid all confrontation as intently as the frail wizard's apprentice because you both can be taken out with a stiff breeze. But on the bright side, you're probably just about as versed in arcane knowledge as they are! Instead of being who you want to be, you've got to be whatever seems to be required to simply survive to level 1. That doesn't feel like it's building the character; it feels like it's fighting against it.

I suppose I can see that if you take away everything a character can do except for mechanics-free roleplay, that would "strongly encourage" players to roleplay. But if you see skills and spells and the life-or-death decisions of combat as just more vehicles for roleplay, then taking those vehicles away doesn't really enhance anything. And if you build a character thinking that roleplay is something separate from all those "statistics," then you're apt to miss out on a lot of opportunities as you play the game.

Not to be that guy, but I think if this is the experience you want, there are better games for it. White Wolf games, Dungeon Delve Classics, etc. WotC is not perfect, but the expertise, experience, and thought behind what level 1 should be goes far beyond what any of us bring to the table, and ties deeply into the game and how interaction between the world and the PCs is supposed to work. You can hack in a different experience if you're looking for it, but for me this is not making the game any better.

A quick side note for the OP - in travellor you are not playing the game during this early stage of development, your creating the character. The character creation process takes you from about 16 to your starting age n 4 year blocks where you roll not only for skills etc but also for survival. I’ve had numerous Travellor characters die before they even entered actual game play with this system.

Quote from scatterbraind >>

I believe rushing through the early levels is robbing the players. It's a bit like always speeding forward and never even spending the time to look out the side windows at the scenery (let alone stop!) It might be a Roleplayer v Meta Gamer debate but I think the most important part of D&D is the story not the statistics. Giving the players more time to immerse themselves into the world makes them far more invested in their characters and the game as a whole. Starting for scratch, means they have far more time to mould a character based as much on their experiences as their character vision. The best characters are always a combination of both.

This feels like a false comparison to me. I don't see anything that makes level 0 inherently more "immersive" than level 1 or 3 or 15. What I see is reduced options. You don't have training in many skills and the training you do have is minimal. You can't really fight. You're rolling dice with minimal - if any - modifiers which means that RNG is going to determine what happens rather than any particular choices you make. Rather than interacting with the world and forging your own path, you're just kind of tossed around by it at the whims of the DM.

Want to be a brawny, brave villager? Too bad, you need to avoid all confrontation as intently as the frail wizard's apprentice because you both can be taken out with a stiff breeze. But on the bright side, you're probably just about as versed in arcane knowledge as they are! Instead of being who you want to be, you've got to be whatever seems to be required to simply survive to level 1. That doesn't feel like it's building the character; it feels like it's fighting against it.

I suppose I can see that if you take away everything a character can do except for mechanics-free roleplay, that would "strongly encourage" players to roleplay. But if you see skills and spells and the life-or-death decisions of combat as just more vehicles for roleplay, then taking those vehicles away doesn't really enhance anything. And if you build a character thinking that roleplay is something separate from all those "statistics," then you're apt to miss out on a lot of opportunities as you play the game.

Not to be that guy, but I think if this is the experience you want, there are better games for it. White Wolf games, Dungeon Delve Classics, etc. WotC is not perfect, but the expertise, experience, and thought behind what level 1 should be goes far beyond what any of us bring to the table, and ties deeply into the game and how interaction between the world and the PCs is supposed to work. You can hack in a different experience if you're looking for it, but for me this is not making the game any better.

When you are playing 0-level, its about developing a character rather than strengthening one. Combat is not the only method of advancement and not the only path to enjoying the game. Using my rudimentary system, this is why the characters begin with a skill before they develop combat related abilities. When players are faced with challenges that their characters abilities won't automatically defeat, its amazing how much ingenuity and strategy is generated. The environment becomes for of a factor - using high ground, attacking from a distance, creating traps. Working as a team also is never more important.

Instead of just going in all guns blazing, players need to think their way through situations. Instead of cutting through the goblin guards, they may need to disguise themselves and actually talk their way past them (and not just role a persuasion check without even having to come up with a plausible story either). Now all of these elements of play can and do occur with leveled characters but the necessity isn't the same when you have so many other personal resources and capabilities to call upon. 

It's also about 'growing into' you character. When cantrips are your only source of magic, all of a sudden they become incredibly valuable. When you only have minor bonuses to your attacks, you need to think of strategies to improve your strength on the battle ground. When you intended on becoming a druid but find yourself enjoying clambering onto rooftops, hiding in shadows and leaping out unexpectedly to turn the tide of the battle, then you realise being a Rogue should be your new path.

Some people hate the idea of being weak, having little and having to rely on roleplay rather than gameplay - I'm not one of these. Starting from nothing makes you appreciate more what you achieve and makes you applaud every step of the characters evolution, rather than try and race through them. Perhaps its because I began playing with first edition when DMs had to improvise more, but I see the journey more important than the destination. Playing 0-level is really about starting from practically nothing so you have more opportunities to develop your character and turn it into someone with a story rather than a series of numbers on a page. It's amazing how my fun that can be.

Quote from Wi1dBi11 >>

A quick side note for the OP - in travellor you are not playing the game during this early stage of development, your creating the character. The character creation process takes you from about 16 to your starting age n 4 year blocks where you roll not only for skills etc but also for survival. I’ve had numerous Travellor characters die before they even entered actual game play with this system.

Really!? Sounds pretty harsh. What did they die from?

Dysentery