OK, we can't END our turn in another creature's space. Fine. But can I move into an ally's space (as difficult terrain of course) Take action while in that space, then Misty Step outta there as a final bonus action? Technically, I'm NOT ending my turn in a previously occupied space, right?
The rules you refer to only gouverns willingly ending your move in another creature's space, it doesn't prevent taking action or ending your turn while there;
Moving Around Other Creatures: Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space.
The rules you refer to only gouverns willingly ending ending a move in another creature's space, it doesn't prevent taking action or ending your turn in such space;
Moving Around Other Creatures: Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space.
The problem here of course is that "end your move" isn't clearly defined. IMO if you are stopping because you are breaking up your movement (to take an action, to take a BA, to end your turn or something similar) then I would rule that as "ending your move", others might rule differently.
The rules you refer to only gouverns willingly ending ending a move in another creature's space, it doesn't prevent taking action or ending your turn in such space;
Moving Around Other Creatures: Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space.
The problem here of course is that "end your move" isn't clearly defined. IMO if you are stopping because you are breaking up your movement (to take an action, to take a BA, to end your turn or something similar) then I would rule that as "ending your move", others might rule differently.
I also use similar ruling, based the Dev's opinion on twitter;
@BobbyBarbarian Can a character move into a space occupied by their ally, make an attack from that space, and then move away?
@JeremyECrawford You can't willingly stop moving in another creature's space.
@aus_maverick Is it 'can't stop moving' or 'can't end your turn in a square'?
@JeremyECrawford Move, not turn. See the Player's Handbook, p. 191.
The rules you refer to only gouverns willingly ending ending a move in another creature's space, it doesn't prevent taking action or ending your turn in such space;
Moving Around Other Creatures: Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space.
Wow, I have been misunderstanding that rule for years! Move =/= turn. Thank you!
The only way to do it would be to somehow get moved into the space somehow that wasn't your move. You could theoretically jump into the space directly above them, ending you move there. (Presuming your table has 3d spaces) You would then fall into your ally's space. And attack or BA misty step away. This should be all RAW but may annoy your DM.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If you jump above your ally to "end your movement" I would have you both make a Dex save, falling prone on a failure.
Can you share where this rule comes from?
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If you jump above your ally to "end your movement" I would have you both make a Dex save, falling prone on a failure.
Me too, in order to give such Jump-and-Fall tactic meaningful consequences i would also use the optional rules for Falling onto a Creature and would rule that both creatures take damage and end up prone as a result from it.
Falling onto a Creature: If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
I'd argue that you can't "jump to a point over your ally." A jump is a planned movement that includes the obvious return to the ground. Jumping to a point over your ally would be equivalent to planning to end your move in the space of your ally. Extending this kind of logic lets you nearly double your long jump as you aim for the midway point, "end your move" and then let momentum and gravity do the rest.
I'd argue that you can't "jump to a point over your ally." A jump is a planned movement that includes the obvious return to the ground. Jumping to a point over your ally would be equivalent to planning to end your move in the space of your ally. Extending this kind of logic lets you nearly double your long jump as you aim for the midway point, "end your move" and then let momentum and gravity do the rest.
I rule that you descend straight down when faling so there's no extention to long jump distance during Jump-and-Fall tactic as normally each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement and falling does not.
If you jump above your ally to "end your movement" I would have you both make a Dex save, falling prone on a failure.
Me too, in order to give such Jump-and-Fall tactic meaningful consequences i would also use the optional rules for Falling onto a Creature and would rule that both creatures take damage and end up prone as a result from it.
Falling onto a Creature: If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
Falling from 5ft doesn't cause damage or knock creatures prone.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know, i said i would rule that way; to prevent Jump-and-Fall tactic from becoming a way to move without constraint like difficult terrain extra movement cost or end move into other creatures space without any meaningful consequences.
I know, i said i would rule that way; to prevent Jump-and-Fall tactic from becoming a way to move without constraint like difficult terrain extra movement cost or end move into other creatures space without any meaningful consequences.
Ah you're homebrewing that falls trigger at shorter distances in your games. That is neat. If that solves some in-game problem you or your players have, more power to you.
According to the rules, though, it would work exactly as described. You could jump up to a position directly above an ally (assuming you can high jump this high), ending your move there. Now that your move is ended, and you're mid-air with no means of staying there, you fall into the space below you not-using-your-movement. As this is forced movement, you simply land in the space, free to do whatever you wanted to be doing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I take inspiration from the Optional Rule: Natural Hazards rule in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, which makes the impacted creature prone wether it takes damage or not.
Falling onto a Creature: If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
I take inspiration from the Optional Rule: Natural Hazards rule in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, which makes the impacted creature prone wether it takes damage or not.
Falling onto a Creature: If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
Right but since the fall is from less than 10ft, there is no damage to split and neither is knocked prone, since the clause is "also" knocked prone, which only works if the initial target would be knocked prone from the fall. Which it doesn't, from falling 5ft.
So they split the 0 damage, and both suffer the same level of being prone: not at all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The wording for the rule provided by Plaguescarred seems pretty clear to me:
The 2nd creature (the one who was already in the space) must make a Dexterity Saving Throw. If that's passed, the first creature hits the ground and takes all of the falling damage, if any. If the fall would have normally caused the first creature to become prone then it becomes prone. The 2nd creature takes no damage and also does not become prone.
If the Dexterity Saving Throw was failed, then the 2nd creature is impacted. In this case, any and all damage from the fall is divided evenly between them. Also, the 2nd creature (when impacted) is knocked prone, even if the 1st creature does not become prone and even if there was no falling damage.
Now, with that out of the way, we should also look at the basic rules for Jumping. Note that there is no option to jump diagonally into the air. There is only the Long Jump and the High Jump. Here are the rules for the Long Jump:
Jumping
Your Strength determines how far you can jump.
Long Jump. When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing long jump, you can leap only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement.
This rule assumes that the height of your jump doesn't matter, such as a jump across a stream or chasm. At your DM's option, you must succeed on a DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check to clear a low obstacle (no taller than a quarter of the jump's distance), such as a hedge or low wall. Otherwise, you hit it.
When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your feet. Otherwise, you land prone.
So there's a bunch of stuff in there that's relevant to the proposed scenario.
First, you cannot end your jump in the air as each foot you clear on a long jump costs a foot of movement. Likewise, you cannot use jumping to extend movement since the jump also requires movement. So, if you don't have enough movement to complete a jump then it cannot be attempted during that turn. You could attempt a shorter jump instead if you had enough movement to do so.
Next, the height of the long jump cannot exceed one quarter of the distance and even that requires a strength check. So, in order to be 5 feet up during any point of a jump you would need to have a Strength score of at least 20 and be attempting a jump of at least 20 feet. Then, common sense would indicate that you'd be at the highest point of your jump at the midpoint although this isn't specified. But this doesn't matter for this scenario since you cannot end your jump mid-flight anyway.
Additionally, a square containing an ally is likely treated as difficult terrain. So, the jumper would need to succeed on another check (an Acrobatics check) to avoid landing prone.
It seems that the only scenario that might work is if there was some sort of vertical cliff such that the space above the ally's square could be walked into or jumped into from up there. In that case it would make sense to follow those rules given for falling onto a creature.
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OK, we can't END our turn in another creature's space. Fine. But can I move into an ally's space (as difficult terrain of course) Take action while in that space, then Misty Step outta there as a final bonus action? Technically, I'm NOT ending my turn in a previously occupied space, right?
The rules you refer to only gouverns willingly ending your move in another creature's space, it doesn't prevent taking action or ending your turn while there;
The problem here of course is that "end your move" isn't clearly defined.
IMO if you are stopping because you are breaking up your movement (to take an action, to take a BA, to end your turn or something similar) then I would rule that as "ending your move", others might rule differently.
I also use similar ruling, based the Dev's opinion on twitter;
Wow, I have been misunderstanding that rule for years! Move =/= turn. Thank you!
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I get it. The difference between "move" vs "turn".
The only way to do it would be to somehow get moved into the space somehow that wasn't your move. You could theoretically jump into the space directly above them, ending you move there. (Presuming your table has 3d spaces) You would then fall into your ally's space. And attack or BA misty step away. This should be all RAW but may annoy your DM.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Unwilling movement include fall, push or pull among other things.
Can you share where this rule comes from?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
From the phrasing of the sentence I think it’s a DM style call 🤷♂️
Me too, in order to give such Jump-and-Fall tactic meaningful consequences i would also use the optional rules for Falling onto a Creature and would rule that both creatures take damage and end up prone as a result from it.
I'd argue that you can't "jump to a point over your ally." A jump is a planned movement that includes the obvious return to the ground. Jumping to a point over your ally would be equivalent to planning to end your move in the space of your ally. Extending this kind of logic lets you nearly double your long jump as you aim for the midway point, "end your move" and then let momentum and gravity do the rest.
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I rule that you descend straight down when faling so there's no extention to long jump distance during Jump-and-Fall tactic as normally each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement and falling does not.
Falling from 5ft doesn't cause damage or knock creatures prone.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know, i said i would rule that way; to prevent Jump-and-Fall tactic from becoming a way to move without constraint like difficult terrain extra movement cost or end move into other creatures space without any meaningful consequences.
Ah you're homebrewing that falls trigger at shorter distances in your games. That is neat. If that solves some in-game problem you or your players have, more power to you.
According to the rules, though, it would work exactly as described. You could jump up to a position directly above an ally (assuming you can high jump this high), ending your move there. Now that your move is ended, and you're mid-air with no means of staying there, you fall into the space below you not-using-your-movement. As this is forced movement, you simply land in the space, free to do whatever you wanted to be doing.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I take inspiration from the Optional Rule: Natural Hazards rule in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, which makes the impacted creature prone wether it takes damage or not.
Right but since the fall is from less than 10ft, there is no damage to split and neither is knocked prone, since the clause is "also" knocked prone, which only works if the initial target would be knocked prone from the fall. Which it doesn't, from falling 5ft.
So they split the 0 damage, and both suffer the same level of being prone: not at all.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Our interpretation differ i guess, how i read it the last sentence is seperate and not contingent on taking damage.
Like i said this would be my ruling to counter abusive use of Jump-and-Fall tactic, despite what RAW might say.
The wording for the rule provided by Plaguescarred seems pretty clear to me:
The 2nd creature (the one who was already in the space) must make a Dexterity Saving Throw. If that's passed, the first creature hits the ground and takes all of the falling damage, if any. If the fall would have normally caused the first creature to become prone then it becomes prone. The 2nd creature takes no damage and also does not become prone.
If the Dexterity Saving Throw was failed, then the 2nd creature is impacted. In this case, any and all damage from the fall is divided evenly between them. Also, the 2nd creature (when impacted) is knocked prone, even if the 1st creature does not become prone and even if there was no falling damage.
Now, with that out of the way, we should also look at the basic rules for Jumping. Note that there is no option to jump diagonally into the air. There is only the Long Jump and the High Jump. Here are the rules for the Long Jump:
So there's a bunch of stuff in there that's relevant to the proposed scenario.
First, you cannot end your jump in the air as each foot you clear on a long jump costs a foot of movement. Likewise, you cannot use jumping to extend movement since the jump also requires movement. So, if you don't have enough movement to complete a jump then it cannot be attempted during that turn. You could attempt a shorter jump instead if you had enough movement to do so.
Next, the height of the long jump cannot exceed one quarter of the distance and even that requires a strength check. So, in order to be 5 feet up during any point of a jump you would need to have a Strength score of at least 20 and be attempting a jump of at least 20 feet. Then, common sense would indicate that you'd be at the highest point of your jump at the midpoint although this isn't specified. But this doesn't matter for this scenario since you cannot end your jump mid-flight anyway.
Additionally, a square containing an ally is likely treated as difficult terrain. So, the jumper would need to succeed on another check (an Acrobatics check) to avoid landing prone.
It seems that the only scenario that might work is if there was some sort of vertical cliff such that the space above the ally's square could be walked into or jumped into from up there. In that case it would make sense to follow those rules given for falling onto a creature.