I don't like the Artificer. It's weird, and even just introducing it says something about the world. It's not super science because it's all still magic. They can be countered, dispelled, and warded against. If a "spell" has a verbal component, then you're either reciting an incantation or spouting technobabble straight out of Star Trek. I like the idea of them, but the execution is just so dang weird.
I've allowed one into my games. Never again. Not until I can make it make sense.
I imagine them casting spells by channeling magic through items. Be those potions, wands or other infused gear. It's "scientific" in the sense that they don't have the magic themselves but studied it. For example, a Draconic Sorcerer that uses Firebolt wields the magic themselves. An Artillerist Artificer uses Firebolt by creating a wand from dragon bones. They emulate the sorcerers connectivity to magic, which allows them to use the spells too. But they're still casting.
I don't like the Artificer. It's weird, and even just introducing it says something about the world. It's not super science because it's all still magic. They can be countered, dispelled, and warded against. If a "spell" has a verbal component, then you're either reciting an incantation or spouting technobabble straight out of Star Trek. I like the idea of them, but the execution is just so dang weird.
I've allowed one into my games. Never again. Not until I can make it make sense.
I think the Artificer is very much linked to the setting. It works in Eberron, because the rest of the setting is also based on this type of mechanomagic. But in general, I don't like that kind of way of looking at magic, so I would not allow one outside of Eberron, and neither would I play one. I bear with it in Eberron because there are brilliant things in the rest of the setting, but if I could get Eberron without it, I would like it even better.
I strongly agree. There are certain settings, like Eberron or Ravnica, where the class is almost necessary, and there’s others, like the Forgotten Realms or really any classic-medieval setting, where it should not be allowed. I think a lot of DMs might miss the fact that they don’t have to (or aren’t meant to) allow the class in their particular game: I certainly wouldn’t appreciate playing alongside an artificer in a more Conan or Tolkien styled game, and I’m not a fan of magitech in general.
Artificers can fit into almost any world. The Forgotten Realms has Lantan, Gnomes, and the followers of Gond. In Theros, there are the followers of Purphoros. In Krynn there are the Tinker Gnomes. In Exandria, artificers are quite common. In Eberron and Ravnica they're very, very common and essential to the state of the world.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Warlocks. I doubt I will ever play one, for a few reasons.
I dislike classes that impose a roleplaying arc, and signing a pact with a stronger being mandates that. If I want that flavor in my life, I'll go read Faust or any number of its knockoffs, thanks.
They are the default class for multiclassing. I like multiclassing, but the fun of it is in coming up with weird combos that work - not in getting the highest DPR or following someone else's guide.
They are very common, at least in my play group. Every campaign I was in had at least one or two. And most of the time they sit back and sling eldritch blast. Boring. And numerically, you'd think that warlockism as a phenomenon would be *incredibly* rare, but seeing them on every street corner breaks immersion.
i don't really see how any of these would hurt the enjoyment of the class, like nobody is forcing your patron to have a significant role in the campaign if you do not want to, unlike a cleric your warlock does not have to bow down and kiss the feet of their god every time they cast a spell or use a class feature.
And like so what if some mook on the internet made an fancy sorclockadin with the potential to spend all their limited class features at once to deal some huge amount of damage at some level, nobody is forcing you to multiclass or adhere to the words of somebody else ether? So what if some people think warlock dips are great, is that really going to alter how muh you like the class?
And like with the amount of customizabillity an warlock can have with your choice of pact, pact boon and eldrich invocations the only real problems warlocks have with diversity is that every character who does not focus on weapons will pick eldrich blast and use only that in combat, having more than one warlock should not be that much of an issue
(other than the rarity point, if you want it so only one out of every such and such parties have a warlock in them since that would make sense that is fine, but that of course is not saying you would never play the class, just that you would not in the group you are playing in)
Why would I ever play the class when the flavor of it and everything else annoys me? Especially when I have a ton of other character ideas ready to go.
Do you like coffee? Whatever your answer is, awesome.
You don't need to convince other people to share the same preference.
I am a big fan of having a long-gone ancient civilization in my settings that was advanced in either magic or technology or both. So even if the current setting is "regular" fantasy, an Artificer can fit in as a student of the lost civilization who knows enough to reactivate a few old artifacts and grows in power as they learn more about the ancients.
Artificers can fit into almost any world. The Forgotten Realms has Lantan, Gnomes, and the followers of Gond. In Theros, there are the followers of Purphoros. In Krynn there are the Tinker Gnomes. In Exandria, artificers are quite common. In Eberron and Ravnica they're very, very common and essential to the state of the world.
And they fit really well in Spelljammer and Planescape.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Artificers can fit into almost any world. The Forgotten Realms has Lantan, Gnomes, and the followers of Gond. In Theros, there are the followers of Purphoros. In Krynn there are the Tinker Gnomes. In Exandria, artificers are quite common. In Eberron and Ravnica they're very, very common and essential to the state of the world.
And they fit really well in Spelljammer and Planescape.
Yep.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
None of these cast spells through mechanical magic. They invent items, but I don't think they cast spells or replicate them through items.
Well Exandria isn't a MtG world. But more to the point, where do you get the idea that Artificers have to use mechanical magic? And what do you mean by that? The Alchemist is clearly using potions. A thing that exists in even the lowest of low magic settings. As do the wands and staves the Artillerist makes. Or well, any magic items require the existence of artificers in some form or another.
That's what I'm saying. They cast spells. They just use items to help them channel magic. It's a different approach to the same thing. Just like Wizards and Warlock differ in aquiring spells. So I don't get why they don't fit in other settings?
I've thought about artificers in my games, either as DM or player, which are more Forgotten Realms than Eberron. My justification has always been they are someone who has either studied magic (like a wizard) or who it comes naturally to (like a sorcerer) who takes those abilities and pairs them with an interest with magical items. I understand how they can appear magitech but the way I read the descriptions in the books always led me to see them as casters first, inventors second. Maybe I read it that way because I was looking for ways to incorporate them into my group's worlds? I don't know but none of us have had any issues with them thematically standing out. Our issues are with how crazy their abilities are (I think they look fun, another player shakes his head at the idea of extra attunement slots).
I tend to view Artificers within places like the Forgotten Realms as a mix between Wizards and smiths/crafters. They have studied magic like wizards, but instead of going full in on studying the grand intricacies of the weave, how certain magical schools and classifications function, and research and theory craft how magic truly works and what is possible with it.....they instead learn just enough about magic to understand how it can be used to imbue objects with various magical effects for more practical and widespread use. Essentially, they are magic item and construct smiths and each subclass specializes in imbuing and creating things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
they instead learn just enough about magic to understand how it can be used to imbue objects with various magical effects for more practical and widespread use.
Only they don't, most of the items that they create can only be used by themselves. It's not even particularly useful for Eberron, where a lot of the mechanomagic is meant for every day use by common people who are not the artificer.
Now, a magic specialist who creates and really imbues items for others would have some use in some worlds, but it would not be an artificer, more likely an NPC actually. The whole class seems artificial to me and mostly an excuse to give powers some of which are, as mentioned, quite powerful and, I suspect, one of the reason for which this class is well loved...
Their main thing (Steel Defender, Eldritch Cannon, Arcane Armor) can only be used by them, that is correct (the Alchemist's potions can be used on others). Your infusions and items that you store spells into though can be used by others.
You can also create common and uncommon magical items in game for a quarter of the time and at half cost by level 10, so in games where you are given down time to do crafting the Artificer has a big advantage there.
As I said, this is how I rationalize Artificers in less magic-tech settings. I'm aware that not everyone would accept that rational.
Sorry guys, but can you stick to the conversation please? Thanks
Yeah there's a lot of off topic people trying to talk folks into or out of classes. Start a thread called "Talk me into it" maybe and convince folks to choose your favorites and such.
Personally, having looked over stuff a TON, I am not interested in Barbarian, Warlock, Ranger, or Druid, so far. They seem either overly complex or woefully under-interesting and I can't come up with any character that would fit the class. Rogue isn't much more appealing to me either and Artificer is out for any number of reasons listed here and a few of my own, lol. Enjoyed my Bard, and look forward to playing one again now that I can build it properly, lol. Monk has been a blast so far and I have a Cleric, Sorcerer and Paladin character (one of each, not a multi class thing) set aside.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
they instead learn just enough about magic to understand how it can be used to imbue objects with various magical effects for more practical and widespread use.
Only they don't, most of the items that they create can only be used by themselves. It's not even particularly useful for Eberron, where a lot of the mechanomagic is meant for every day use by common people who are not the artificer.
Now, a magic specialist who creates and really imbues items for others would have some use in some worlds, but it would not be an artificer, more likely an NPC actually. The whole class seems artificial to me and mostly an excuse to give powers some of which are, as mentioned, quite powerful and, I suspect, one of the reason for which this class is well loved...
Their main thing (Steel Defender, Eldritch Cannon, Arcane Armor) can only be used by them, that is correct (the Alchemist's potions can be used on others). Your infusions and items that you store spells into though can be used by others.
You can also create common and uncommon magical items in game for a quarter of the time and at half cost by level 10, so in games where you are given down time to do crafting the Artificer has a big advantage there.
As I said, this is how I rationalize Artificers in less magic-tech settings. I'm aware that not everyone would accept that rational.
i am pretty shure this is an double missunderstanding:
- when RoughCoronet0 was talking about giving magic "widespread use" i do not think he was talkning about your spells being physical devices to be used by anyone like spell storing item (and sort of like what you are encouraged to flavour artificer spells) rather more about giving magic more practical applications somehow
- then Lyxen talks about how you and only you can cast your spells, how they are in fact not physical items that anybody could use, under the belief that he is correcting the person above
- and then RoughCoronet0 is going way of the mark when he starts talking about class features again, rather than the spells that is the main point of conflict for Lyxen
the way i personally see the artificer is just a wizard who is obsessed with stuff and making shit, yes it would be cool if the artificer class was from the start built arround the spell-storing-item feature with their entire spellcasting progression working the way that feature works, but that is not how it works, and we will have to just handle that, you are simply casting spells by "awakening/ channeling the magic of mundane objects" or whatever they said, casting it through your surroundings, the wizard of things
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
ArtificeMeal, you may want to refer to people that you don't know the pronouns of as "they/them" in order to avoid any mistakes. It's best not to assume.
I will never play a Wild Magic Sorcerer. I really hate abilities that are completely random and beyond the control of the player.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I imagine them casting spells by channeling magic through items. Be those potions, wands or other infused gear. It's "scientific" in the sense that they don't have the magic themselves but studied it. For example, a Draconic Sorcerer that uses Firebolt wields the magic themselves. An Artillerist Artificer uses Firebolt by creating a wand from dragon bones. They emulate the sorcerers connectivity to magic, which allows them to use the spells too. But they're still casting.
Normally I like playing healers and mechanically I like clerics in 5e, but I can't come up with any cleric characters that I actually want to play.
I strongly agree. There are certain settings, like Eberron or Ravnica, where the class is almost necessary, and there’s others, like the Forgotten Realms or really any classic-medieval setting, where it should not be allowed. I think a lot of DMs might miss the fact that they don’t have to (or aren’t meant to) allow the class in their particular game: I certainly wouldn’t appreciate playing alongside an artificer in a more Conan or Tolkien styled game, and I’m not a fan of magitech in general.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Artificers can fit into almost any world. The Forgotten Realms has Lantan, Gnomes, and the followers of Gond. In Theros, there are the followers of Purphoros. In Krynn there are the Tinker Gnomes. In Exandria, artificers are quite common. In Eberron and Ravnica they're very, very common and essential to the state of the world.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Why would I ever play the class when the flavor of it and everything else annoys me? Especially when I have a ton of other character ideas ready to go.
Do you like coffee? Whatever your answer is, awesome.
You don't need to convince other people to share the same preference.
I am a big fan of having a long-gone ancient civilization in my settings that was advanced in either magic or technology or both. So even if the current setting is "regular" fantasy, an Artificer can fit in as a student of the lost civilization who knows enough to reactivate a few old artifacts and grows in power as they learn more about the ancients.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
And they fit really well in Spelljammer and Planescape.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yep.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Well Exandria isn't a MtG world. But more to the point, where do you get the idea that Artificers have to use mechanical magic? And what do you mean by that? The Alchemist is clearly using potions. A thing that exists in even the lowest of low magic settings. As do the wands and staves the Artillerist makes. Or well, any magic items require the existence of artificers in some form or another.
That's what I'm saying. They cast spells. They just use items to help them channel magic. It's a different approach to the same thing. Just like Wizards and Warlock differ in aquiring spells. So I don't get why they don't fit in other settings?
Sorry guys, but can you stick to the conversation please? Thanks
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
I've thought about artificers in my games, either as DM or player, which are more Forgotten Realms than Eberron. My justification has always been they are someone who has either studied magic (like a wizard) or who it comes naturally to (like a sorcerer) who takes those abilities and pairs them with an interest with magical items. I understand how they can appear magitech but the way I read the descriptions in the books always led me to see them as casters first, inventors second. Maybe I read it that way because I was looking for ways to incorporate them into my group's worlds? I don't know but none of us have had any issues with them thematically standing out. Our issues are with how crazy their abilities are (I think they look fun, another player shakes his head at the idea of extra attunement slots).
I tend to view Artificers within places like the Forgotten Realms as a mix between Wizards and smiths/crafters. They have studied magic like wizards, but instead of going full in on studying the grand intricacies of the weave, how certain magical schools and classifications function, and research and theory craft how magic truly works and what is possible with it.....they instead learn just enough about magic to understand how it can be used to imbue objects with various magical effects for more practical and widespread use. Essentially, they are magic item and construct smiths and each subclass specializes in imbuing and creating things.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Their main thing (Steel Defender, Eldritch Cannon, Arcane Armor) can only be used by them, that is correct (the Alchemist's potions can be used on others). Your infusions and items that you store spells into though can be used by others.
You can also create common and uncommon magical items in game for a quarter of the time and at half cost by level 10, so in games where you are given down time to do crafting the Artificer has a big advantage there.
As I said, this is how I rationalize Artificers in less magic-tech settings. I'm aware that not everyone would accept that rational.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
Yeah there's a lot of off topic people trying to talk folks into or out of classes. Start a thread called "Talk me into it" maybe and convince folks to choose your favorites and such.
Personally, having looked over stuff a TON, I am not interested in Barbarian, Warlock, Ranger, or Druid, so far. They seem either overly complex or woefully under-interesting and I can't come up with any character that would fit the class. Rogue isn't much more appealing to me either and Artificer is out for any number of reasons listed here and a few of my own, lol. Enjoyed my Bard, and look forward to playing one again now that I can build it properly, lol. Monk has been a blast so far and I have a Cleric, Sorcerer and Paladin character (one of each, not a multi class thing) set aside.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
i am pretty shure this is an double missunderstanding:
- when RoughCoronet0 was talking about giving magic "widespread use" i do not think he was talkning about your spells being physical devices to be used by anyone like spell storing item (and sort of like what you are encouraged to flavour artificer spells) rather more about giving magic more practical applications somehow
- then Lyxen talks about how you and only you can cast your spells, how they are in fact not physical items that anybody could use, under the belief that he is correcting the person above
- and then RoughCoronet0 is going way of the mark when he starts talking about class features again, rather than the spells that is the main point of conflict for Lyxen
the way i personally see the artificer is just a wizard who is obsessed with stuff and making shit, yes it would be cool if the artificer class was from the start built arround the spell-storing-item feature with their entire spellcasting progression working the way that feature works, but that is not how it works, and we will have to just handle that, you are simply casting spells by "awakening/ channeling the magic of mundane objects" or whatever they said, casting it through your surroundings, the wizard of things
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
ArtificeMeal, you may want to refer to people that you don't know the pronouns of as "they/them" in order to avoid any mistakes. It's best not to assume.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Guys, I do love the talk of the artificer theme, but if you don't have any more about what class you won't play, I kindly ask you to stop.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!