Basically the title. Natural weapons are only potentially useful at very early levels, and never improve. They never overcome magical resistance, never improve in damage, and don't play well with any class features except extra attack.
Worst of all, natural weapons as a racial feature are just boring. Classes that get a cantrip or spell like ability generally can have fun with that from level 1 to 20. Natural weapons just get forgotten early on.
They even made the Minotaur's horns be attached to a worse version of the charger feat.
So are natural weapons just there to be different? Are they a place holder? Maybe its expected that they'll just be forgotten?
My guess is that (as with some other stuff like pet's and such) they want to add things that are "fun and special" but also are afraid that those things might end up being unbalanced/overpowered. And thus they end up with things that are underwhelming and mostly useless.
Natural Weapons are an improvement over unarmed strike, which don't scale or synergize well with features but otherwise aren't that different of manufactured weapons which don't also scale but can benefit from proficiency bonus and features requiring weapons.
Where they end up not as good is usually due to lack of weapon properties or lower damage, to compensate i guess for never finding yourself disarmed.
I think the one thing from Monsters of the Multiverse that will probably get the acceptance going forward is the change to make natural weapons consistently at least a d6 of damage.
The other thing about natural weapons compared to actual weapons is that there are a lot of ways to replace and upgrade your weapons. A character who chooses to wield their natural weapons exclusively is just as potent as someone who wields a mundane mace exclusively, but it's very easy to get a magical mace of some kind, or to temporarily enchant a mace in a way that empowers it... whether it's literally casting Magic Weapon on it, or using it to cast spells like Booming Blade. When it comes to upgrading your natural weapons, the only thing I can think of is the Insignia of Claws... a magic item that, if I remember correctly, is only in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure, and it basically turns your natural weapons (or unarmed strike) into a +1 magic weapon.
I think it makes sense that Natural Weapons aren't quite as good as a manufactured weapon... getting the benefit of always having a viable weapon on your person without actively occupying a hand has a lot of benefits... it frees you up for a lot of spellcasting freedom, or lets you use your hands for other things. However, I do agree that natural weapons, other than emphasizing flavor for the character, are generally not as impactful in gameplay as gaining some kind of spellcasting or a unique feature of some other kind. I have noticed, though, that most races that have natural weapons of some kind still have some other feature, and don't just have the natural weapon as their big primary feature.
Aarakocra have talons, sure, but they also have a fly speed right at level one. Tortles have claws, but that's less the reason to take them compared to their guaranteed 17 AC. A lizardfolk's bite isn't a reliable damage dealer, but it comes with a unique bonus action attack that grants Temp HP. Is there any race that gets natural weapons that don't get additional features to help make them viable beyond?
I think the one thing from Monsters of the Multiverse that will probably get the acceptance going forward is the change to make natural weapons consistently at least a d6 of damage.
The other thing about natural weapons compared to actual weapons is that there are a lot of ways to replace and upgrade your weapons. A character who chooses to wield their natural weapons exclusively is just as potent as someone who wields a mundane mace exclusively, but it's very easy to get a magical mace of some kind, or to temporarily enchant a mace in a way that empowers it... whether it's literally casting Magic Weapon on it, or using it to cast spells like Booming Blade. When it comes to upgrading your natural weapons, the only thing I can think of is the Insignia of Claws... a magic item that, if I remember correctly, is only in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure, and it basically turns your natural weapons (or unarmed strike) into a +1 magic weapon.
I think it makes sense that Natural Weapons aren't quite as good as a manufactured weapon... getting the benefit of always having a viable weapon on your person without actively occupying a hand has a lot of benefits... it frees you up for a lot of spellcasting freedom, or lets you use your hands for other things. However, I do agree that natural weapons, other than emphasizing flavor for the character, are generally not as impactful in gameplay as gaining some kind of spellcasting or a unique feature of some other kind. I have noticed, though, that most races that have natural weapons of some kind still have some other feature, and don't just have the natural weapon as their big primary feature.
Aarakocra have talons, sure, but they also have a fly speed right at level one. Tortles have claws, but that's less the reason to take them compared to their guaranteed 17 AC. A lizardfolk's bite isn't a reliable damage dealer, but it comes with a unique bonus action attack that grants Temp HP. Is there any race that gets natural weapons that don't get additional features to help make them viable beyond?
Every race is viable. There isn't one that is just unplayable. But I would point to the Minotaur as a race with a natural weapon that just feels way below other races for it. They don't get darkvision, they don't get some other useful or interesting mechanic. They just have their natural weapon, a worse version of the charger feat tacked on, and proficiency in intimidation or persuasion. Its almost like having no racial features at all. I'd just make a custom lineage character and call it a minotaur instead.
I looked into Minotaurs, and I noticed they're one of the few (possibly only?) race whose Natural Weapons always dealt a d6 of damage, which I think was meant to make them more viable. They also get a bonus action Shove ability, but unfortunately it's some kind of unique feature that exclusively pushes an enemy 10 feet, and isn't actually the Shove Action, which has a lot more potential uses. So yeah, I have to agree... Minotaur seems to be the weak link, especially if you use the MPMM rules to give everyone a d6 of damage with their natural weapons. If they were upgrading everyone else to a d6 as well, they probably should have bumped Minotaur to a D8, since the additional damage was the most unique and valuable aspect their natural weapons had over other creatures that also got natural weapons.
Minotaurs originally (from the Waterborne Adventures UA) had horns that did 1d10 damage. This was lowered to the standard 1d6 when they came out in the Ravnica book.
Natural weapons are fun and flavorful. They're meant to be an interesting ribbon and I don't think they weigh a lot in terms of racial balance.
Seems to me like this is more an issue with Minotaur than natural weapons. I wouldn't say it's one of the stronger races, but it's better than, say, Earth Genasi.
The easy fix to make it an ability that's useful regardless of level is 1d4+PB.
Or even 1d6+PB. PB would be an excellent metric for scaling something like a racial natural weapon.
1d4+PB if you want it merely competitive with equipment (you'll need something like an eldritch claw tattoo to make it all that useful), 1d6+PB if you want it to be an actual meaningful advantage.
The easy fix to make it an ability that's useful regardless of level is 1d4+PB.
Or even 1d6+PB. PB would be an excellent metric for scaling something like a racial natural weapon.
1d4+PB if you want it merely competitive with equipment (you'll need something like an eldritch claw tattoo to make it all that useful), 1d6+PB if you want it to be an actual meaningful advantage.
Not every ability that a race or class has is designed to be useful all of the time. Most have what are called "ribbon" abilities that are situationally useful but are not meant to be something relied on all of the time.
Dwarf Stonecunning and Rogue's Thieves Cant are examples of this.
Not every ability that a race or class has is designed to be useful all of the time. Most have what are called "ribbon" abilities that are situationally useful but are not meant to be something relied on all of the time.
Dwarf Stonecunning and Rogue's Thieves Cant are examples of this.
A natural weapon also falls into this category.
No. It doesn’t really. Unless your definition of a ribbon ability is “useless” and not “situationally useful.”
A Minotaur’s imposing presence or labyrinthine recall (depending on which book you use ) are ribbon abilities that can actually come up. Using a worse weapon only comes up in that one scene in the entire game where your DM decided to take all of your party’s gear away. Having ~2.5 more damage per attack there isn’t going to save the day.
Natural weapons are fun and flavorful. They're meant to be an interesting ribbon and I don't think they weigh a lot in terms of racial balance.
Seems to me like this is more an issue with Minotaur than natural weapons. I wouldn't say it's one of the stronger races, but it's better than, say, Earth Genasi.
Really? I'd take a race with 2 spells built in over a natural weapon I might never used with a worse charger feat attached.
I guess Lizardfolk, Aarakocra, and tortles have plenty of other interesting traits. Leonin has the roar... a little thin to be their whole schtick aside from claws, but better than minotaur. So I agree, natural weapons are nice flavor, it just feels wrong when they make up too large a proportion of the racial features. Like its being treated as a substantive feature in its own right rather than a flavor thing.
One of the main reasons natural weapons keep appearing is that people want to take monsterous races and turn them into a playable race.
Minotaur is a great example. If you want to play one, well, you are going to have to give them horns on their head, which are obviously weapons. But if you make them powerful, they are OP at low levels. If you don't, they are worthless at higher levels.
So you get a bunch of races with natural weapons that are not worth much post 5th level.
One of the main reasons natural weapons keep appearing is that people want to take monsterous races and turn them into a playable race.
Minotaur is a great example. If you want to play one, well, you are going to have to give them horns on their head, which are obviously weapons. But if you make them powerful, they are OP at low levels. If you don't, they are worthless at higher levels.
Unless, of course, you give them some sort of level scaling. Which a number of other racial abilities do, such as dragonborn breath weapons and most forms of natural spellcasting.
One of the main reasons natural weapons keep appearing is that people want to take monsterous races and turn them into a playable race.
Minotaur is a great example. If you want to play one, well, you are going to have to give them horns on their head, which are obviously weapons. But if you make them powerful, they are OP at low levels. If you don't, they are worthless at higher levels.
Unless, of course, you give them some sort of level scaling. Which a number of other racial abilities do, such as dragonborn breath weapons and most forms of natural spellcasting.
Proficiency bonus doesn't get added to weapon damage, though, and doing so would set weird precedents and confuse people. It could be like, 1d4+level, but that's probably too good? Idk.
Really I think they just need special features on their weapons. Minotaur horns can like, always push someone 5ft on a hit, in addition to damage. But then you're designing a whole bunch of special properties and idk if that's the way to go.
Basically the title. Natural weapons are only potentially useful at very early levels, and never improve. They never overcome magical resistance, never improve in damage, and don't play well with any class features except extra attack.
Worst of all, natural weapons as a racial feature are just boring. Classes that get a cantrip or spell like ability generally can have fun with that from level 1 to 20. Natural weapons just get forgotten early on.
They even made the Minotaur's horns be attached to a worse version of the charger feat.
So are natural weapons just there to be different? Are they a place holder? Maybe its expected that they'll just be forgotten?
My guess is that (as with some other stuff like pet's and such) they want to add things that are "fun and special" but also are afraid that those things might end up being unbalanced/overpowered. And thus they end up with things that are underwhelming and mostly useless.
Natural Weapons are an improvement over unarmed strike, which don't scale or synergize well with features but otherwise aren't that different of manufactured weapons which don't also scale but can benefit from proficiency bonus and features requiring weapons.
Where they end up not as good is usually due to lack of weapon properties or lower damage, to compensate i guess for never finding yourself disarmed.
I think the one thing from Monsters of the Multiverse that will probably get the acceptance going forward is the change to make natural weapons consistently at least a d6 of damage.
The other thing about natural weapons compared to actual weapons is that there are a lot of ways to replace and upgrade your weapons. A character who chooses to wield their natural weapons exclusively is just as potent as someone who wields a mundane mace exclusively, but it's very easy to get a magical mace of some kind, or to temporarily enchant a mace in a way that empowers it... whether it's literally casting Magic Weapon on it, or using it to cast spells like Booming Blade. When it comes to upgrading your natural weapons, the only thing I can think of is the Insignia of Claws... a magic item that, if I remember correctly, is only in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure, and it basically turns your natural weapons (or unarmed strike) into a +1 magic weapon.
I think it makes sense that Natural Weapons aren't quite as good as a manufactured weapon... getting the benefit of always having a viable weapon on your person without actively occupying a hand has a lot of benefits... it frees you up for a lot of spellcasting freedom, or lets you use your hands for other things. However, I do agree that natural weapons, other than emphasizing flavor for the character, are generally not as impactful in gameplay as gaining some kind of spellcasting or a unique feature of some other kind. I have noticed, though, that most races that have natural weapons of some kind still have some other feature, and don't just have the natural weapon as their big primary feature.
Aarakocra have talons, sure, but they also have a fly speed right at level one. Tortles have claws, but that's less the reason to take them compared to their guaranteed 17 AC. A lizardfolk's bite isn't a reliable damage dealer, but it comes with a unique bonus action attack that grants Temp HP. Is there any race that gets natural weapons that don't get additional features to help make them viable beyond?
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Every race is viable. There isn't one that is just unplayable. But I would point to the Minotaur as a race with a natural weapon that just feels way below other races for it. They don't get darkvision, they don't get some other useful or interesting mechanic. They just have their natural weapon, a worse version of the charger feat tacked on, and proficiency in intimidation or persuasion. Its almost like having no racial features at all. I'd just make a custom lineage character and call it a minotaur instead.
I looked into Minotaurs, and I noticed they're one of the few (possibly only?) race whose Natural Weapons always dealt a d6 of damage, which I think was meant to make them more viable. They also get a bonus action Shove ability, but unfortunately it's some kind of unique feature that exclusively pushes an enemy 10 feet, and isn't actually the Shove Action, which has a lot more potential uses. So yeah, I have to agree... Minotaur seems to be the weak link, especially if you use the MPMM rules to give everyone a d6 of damage with their natural weapons. If they were upgrading everyone else to a d6 as well, they probably should have bumped Minotaur to a D8, since the additional damage was the most unique and valuable aspect their natural weapons had over other creatures that also got natural weapons.
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Minotaurs originally (from the Waterborne Adventures UA) had horns that did 1d10 damage. This was lowered to the standard 1d6 when they came out in the Ravnica book.
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Natural weapons are fun and flavorful. They're meant to be an interesting ribbon and I don't think they weigh a lot in terms of racial balance.
Seems to me like this is more an issue with Minotaur than natural weapons. I wouldn't say it's one of the stronger races, but it's better than, say, Earth Genasi.
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The easy fix to make it an ability that's useful regardless of level is 1d4+PB.
Or even 1d6+PB. PB would be an excellent metric for scaling something like a racial natural weapon.
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1d4+PB if you want it merely competitive with equipment (you'll need something like an eldritch claw tattoo to make it all that useful), 1d6+PB if you want it to be an actual meaningful advantage.
Agreed.
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Not every ability that a race or class has is designed to be useful all of the time. Most have what are called "ribbon" abilities that are situationally useful but are not meant to be something relied on all of the time.
Dwarf Stonecunning and Rogue's Thieves Cant are examples of this.
A natural weapon also falls into this category.
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I personally don’t consider Thieves’ Cant a ribbon, it’s super useful if the DM makes it a thing.
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No. It doesn’t really. Unless your definition of a ribbon ability is “useless” and not “situationally useful.”
A Minotaur’s imposing presence or labyrinthine recall (depending on which book you use ) are ribbon abilities that can actually come up. Using a worse weapon only comes up in that one scene in the entire game where your DM decided to take all of your party’s gear away. Having ~2.5 more damage per attack there isn’t going to save the day.
Really? I'd take a race with 2 spells built in over a natural weapon I might never used with a worse charger feat attached.
I guess Lizardfolk, Aarakocra, and tortles have plenty of other interesting traits. Leonin has the roar... a little thin to be their whole schtick aside from claws, but better than minotaur. So I agree, natural weapons are nice flavor, it just feels wrong when they make up too large a proportion of the racial features. Like its being treated as a substantive feature in its own right rather than a flavor thing.
One of the main reasons natural weapons keep appearing is that people want to take monsterous races and turn them into a playable race.
Minotaur is a great example. If you want to play one, well, you are going to have to give them horns on their head, which are obviously weapons. But if you make them powerful, they are OP at low levels. If you don't, they are worthless at higher levels.
So you get a bunch of races with natural weapons that are not worth much post 5th level.
Unless, of course, you give them some sort of level scaling. Which a number of other racial abilities do, such as dragonborn breath weapons and most forms of natural spellcasting.
Proficiency bonus doesn't get added to weapon damage, though, and doing so would set weird precedents and confuse people. It could be like, 1d4+level, but that's probably too good? Idk.
Really I think they just need special features on their weapons. Minotaur horns can like, always push someone 5ft on a hit, in addition to damage. But then you're designing a whole bunch of special properties and idk if that's the way to go.
There are other methods -- the usual is upgrades at levels 5, 11, and 17.